466: Why Asking for Help is So Hard

In this episode, we’re sharing a very personal story from our own lives. Last week, Kevin hurt his back during a strength workout, and even though I am a physical therapist, he never clearly asked for help. I, on the other hand, didn’t want to jump in with unsolicited advice. The result? A week of unnecessary pain, missed training, poor sleep, frustration, and a whole lot of miscommunication.

That experience made us realize just how hard it can be to ask for help—even from the people we trust most.

We dive into why so many runners and high achievers struggle with reaching out, whether it’s because we don’t want to be a burden, think we should be able to figure it out ourselves, or worry that asking for help makes us look weak. We also talk about when it’s time to stop pushing through, who you should actually ask for guidance, and why confidence on social media or AI-generated answers aren’t the same as real expertise and experience.

If you’ve ever caught yourself thinking, “I can handle this on my own,” we think this conversation might give you a different perspective.

00:00 Why We Avoid Help

01:28 Kevin’s Back Injury

08:05 The Pants Moment

10:08 Runner Identity Trap

12:14 Miscommunication Spiral

16:52 AI and False Confidence

27:02 Why Helpers Hold Back

32:40 Why Investment Matters

33:14 Free Advice Fails

37:54 When To Ask Help

44:41 Who To Ask

45:10 Social Media Red Flags

48:54 AI Sounds Confident

49:49 Knowledge Vs Experience

55:54 Trust And Perspective

Gain access to my new secret podcast, Unbreakable: The Runner's Guide To Injury-Proofing Your Body After 40. Click here: https://www.realliferunners.com/secret

Join the Team! -->  https://www.realliferunners.com/team 

Thanks for Listening!!

Be sure to hit FOLLOW on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player

 Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one!

Come find us on Instagram and say hi!

Don't forget: The information on this website is not intended to treat or diagnose any medical condition or to provide medical advice. It is intended for general education in the areas of health and wellness. All information contained in this site is intended to be educational in nature. Nothing should be considered medical advice for your specific situation.

Transcript

0:00

When was the last time you needed help and didn't ask for it? Maybe you were in pain and you figure you just wait it out, or you were struggling with your training and you figured you could just find the answer on Google. Or maybe someone in your life was clearly in a position to help you and you just didn't say anything. Asking for help is not easy, and I know it's something that I definitely struggle with, Kevin struggles with. And so today we're gonna be talking about the whole c- concept of asking for help and when it is important, because it is unfortunately for us as runners and just as people to realize our own limitations and ask for help. So stay tuned. This is episode number 466 of the Real Life Runners podcast. So I changed up the intro on the fly right there. just- Yeah, it was something yeah, I just threw the episode number in there at the end. I don't know if I like that or not. Eh, it's what it is. Let's roll with it. It's what it is. All right. So this episode, asking for help, is something that I am going to, for sure, right at the top, at the beginning of the episode, admit that I have an issue with. I, hello, my name is Angie, and I have problems asking for help. Not me. I am great- at asking for help. That did not spur the entire episode at all- was my lack of a willingness to ask for help. Everything that you said in the opening just seemed like a very pointed question towards me. it, it wasn't meant that way. I know. But it feels like it right now. and especially when I think that we know that's us, and we hear something like that, we can realize, "Oh, I... Yes, that, that is me." So the inspiration for this episode is that last week Kevin hurt his back. So on Monday, Kevin hurt his back, and we... I wanna talk about what the last week has been like because I was thinking about it, and it really demonstrates our difficulty asking for help, and I don't think that this is just us. I think that a lot of runners have this issue, and so we wanna really get into it. So when you listen to this episode, I want you to think about how this may apply to your running and your fitness and your strength training or whatever it is that you're doing health and fitness-wise and, of course, other areas of your life as well because in all likelihood, the pat- there's a pattern. Oh, yeah. No, this definitely applies to all- Yeah sorts of different areas. All right. So Kevin, tell the listeners what happened so the very short version of the story is I was lifting on Monday, and was at the bottom of a squat, and something felt weird, and I pushed back to the top of the squat, and I've been in various levels of pain ever since. that's, that is the short synopsis of what went down. Now, the background is on Sunday I ran 20 miles and power washed our back patio, and so I was pretty fatigued going into lifting on Monday morning. And then I lifted. I didn't do anything crazy. I didn't do anything excessive, but I did my normal lift. I didn't change it based off of what had happened on Sunday. Yeah. And, yeah, a- and then I kinda got hurt. Kinda got hurt. Okay. And then what happened in your perspective the past week? So that was on Monday. Today is Monday. So over the past week, what has been happening? So- 'Cause one of the things you always love to say is marry a physical therapist. Yes. So how did that work out for you this week? Yeah, 'cause it keeps you injury-proof. Marry a physical therapist. And then I got hurt last Monday. And, and this Monday as we're recording, I'm still in pain. And so I, I do have to give you a little funny story about this. I was talking to my sister about this, and she was telling me how she was talking to her husband about it, so our brother-in-law, and he said, I hate to say this," so Chad, if you're listening, what's up? but he said that seeing that you, and this is one of the reasons I thought we should talk about this on the podcast also, because I want people to know that we're not bulletproof either, and Chad made a comment about how seeing you in pain actually made him feel better about himself because he knew that 'Cause he's had instances of back, back pain as well, and he sees you as such a strong, in fit, fit, in shape person, and the fact that even you can hurt your back made him feel better about those times that he hurt his back versus, "Oh my gosh, I'm just getting older," and all these things that like to run through our heads when we get hurt. "Oh my gosh, I'm just getting older" has been running through my head nonstop- Yeah for the last eight days. We could have done a whole episode about that too. Like, where our brain wants to go. Maybe we'll filter that in a little bit here too. I think that's coming- Yeah in, in a whole lot of this. so tell us your perspective. Kind of after you hurt your back on Monday, then what? then I tried to do various things, like when you get a little injury, I'm like, "Okay, so what do I need to do to work on, mobilizing the area?" I didn't immediately take Advil 'cause I don't like to take immediate, pain pills at all. Do you remember what happened that- Day. No okay. So from my perspective- No, do you? So from my perspective, and correct me if I'm wrong in remembering it this way, you came in, you didn't stop right away. You came in afterwards, like at the normal time that your lifting would be done. And you, you had kinda mentioned it to me about how you hurt your back or maybe I saw you walking funny. I can't remember exactly. And you said something about how you felt, like exactly what you just said, about how you felt your back, like something happened at the bottom of the squat and you pushed up and you're like, "I shouldn't have pushed up." And I was like, what did you do after that?" You're like, I just took it easy, did some mobility," blah, blah, blah. And like you didn't ask for my opinion at all that day. Yeah, no, I didn't- You were like- Like I stopped my lift- I just started doing like various... So I was like halfway through the workout, and it wasn't like it was the first squat I did. this was like my second rep of my third round. Like I w- I had already done this. Yeah. Like it wasn't straight off the bat and it hurt. And you kept the weights the same the whole time. I didn't do anything weird to my weights. Yeah. And so I flipped from doing the rest of the workout into like mobility stuff and just trying to gently move my back and see how it was doing. And I came in and I told you that I had hurt my back and that's basically what I had done. And then how do you see what happened the rest of the week? then I hobbled around the rest of Monday. You were being productive 'cause it's Monday, so now we're on summer break, so we're all home. We're all home and in the house. And so you work from home. You're over at your like work area. I was doing stuff over at my area. and- I remember asking you like, "Do you want some help?" And you were like, no, I'm good." Yeah. I don't remember that happening. Okay. I'm sure it did. You're like, "Oh, I did some mobility. Like I di- you know, I didn't push it after that happened, so I'm just gonna let it rest for now." So that, that most likely happened 'cause it makes sense that you'd be like, "I, do I, do you need me to, do I need to do anything?" And I was like, "Yeah, it's, hopefully this is just all better by tomorrow." hopefully I can just kinda like chill today and this will be fine tomorrow. I didn't try and run. I didn't try and push it. I was just like, "I'll just, I'll relax today and I'll be fine." It, it didn't get better at all. and so then you would say things like, "Oh, I know how you feel," 'cause you've, you hurt your back- Yeah before. I have. And- It's not comfortable when you said things like, "Oh, I know how you're feeling," I heard she's sympathizing, she understands that this is painful and uncomfortable. What you probably meant was, "I know how you're feeling, and I know what I've done to fix it." I think is what you were angling for. But I didn't hear the second part. I just heard, I heard empathy- which is great- Yeah but I didn't hear, "Let me help you fix it." And I'm pretty sure that I had mentioned it a couple times throughout the week of "Let me know if you want my help," because there's a whole idea, and this is really what I wanna dig into today. Because at the beginning, definitely at the beginning of the week, we can agree that you didn't ask for help, and I was not about to offer... I f- I, I did offer, "Do you need my help?" And you said, "No, I'm just gonna, we'll see how it goes." And so that really then led to a whole week of Kevin in pain, and n- in my opinion, not asking for help, and in his opinion, me not offering to help. So- Is, that's what happened? To me, every time I'm like hobbling around, like wincing as I'm climbing into and out of bed- Yeah I think on Tuesday morning, I literally couldn't get dressed, so I did ask actually directly for help because I couldn't put my pants on. And- I had to help you put your pants on. Yes. Yeah. Yes. So I asked- I said, you were, I saw you struggling. Now mind you, he did not ask for help. I saw you struggling, and I looked at you and I let you go for a little bit, and then I said, "Do you want my help?" Or, "Do you need my help?" And you were like, "Yes, I do." And you just said it, in a very, defeated kind of way. Like you clearly did not want my help, and I asked, "Do you want my help?" And you were like, "Ugh, yeah, I..." Like you were so upset that you needed my help, I think, at that point. So I think this was like- That's how it looked. I've seen this was Tuesday morning? Yeah. Maybe Wednesday morning. I don't remember. But the dog was making noise, and so one of us needed to get up, and I was trying to be nice and let you sleep- and stay in bed. So I was trying to quietly get up and out of bed, and- Yeah, so it was probably Wednesday 'cause I run on Tuesday mornings. Yeah. So I was trying to quietly get up and out of bed and change into clothes that I could go walk the dog, and I couldn't get my shorts on. And so I literally... This is the visual. This may... We gotta make sure we're a mature audience on this one. TMI? I'm standing there- Things you never wanted to know about your podcast host at the foot of our bed wearing my pajama shirt, and I have shorts on the floor that I have stepped into and am completely unable to pull up. And that's when you asked d- do you need help? and I muttered, "I can't put my pants on." And all I wanted was to help to allow you to stay in bed. I was trying to do a nice thing- and I couldn't. Yeah. I was trying to be quiet about it, and I'm like moaning and grunting and hissing and all the sounds and I couldn't put my pants on. So did I feel defeated? Yes. I was utterly defeated- Yeah at that point in time. Yeah. that was the sole emotion hitting. Yeah. And so really that is a big piece of this episode, is really starting to look into the psychology of not asking for help, and that's really the core question that I think we should look into in this episode because I think that all of us tend to do this, especially capable, intelligent, high-performing types of people, which is, basically what describes a lot of runners. Runners. so why is it that we resist asking for help even when we clearly need it? And I think that we as runners have this high-performer identity. We- running attracts a specific type of person, right? Someone that is self-motivated, independent, used to figuring things out, used to getting through it, persisting, being dedicated, and these are all very sh- big strengths. overall I would say these are strengths in life to have. they are strengths in life. They are huge strengths in running because there's going to be tough things in running. And being able to motivate yourself through difficult times- Yeah being able to persevere in the face of adversity allows you to get through rough training patches. It allows you to get through difficult portions of races. It is a key attribute of a runner. But it becomes a problem- When you can't put your pants on. Yeah. Yes. Didn't see that one coming. When yes, that's true, when it prevents you from getting the help that you need, right? So that same grit that is going to get you through mile 20 of a marathon can also keep you limping around on an injured knee for three months because accepting or asking for help or accepting help almost feels like a defeat in some way for some people. Yes, because if you could figure out how to get through all the other challenges of your training plan- Yeah clearly gritting out the sore knee, the stiff back- whatever the pain is, you can just grit and push through. Yeah. Whereas actually asking for help is probably gonna be a much faster way to the other side of that pain. And so why don't we? why don't we ask for help when we clearly need it? Because I think that's really what we wanna dig into today. So- Kevin has been suffering with pain for this whole week, and so finally today... in my mind-- So in his mind, I wasn't helping him, and in my mind, he wasn't asking me for help, so I wasn't volunteering my help. So there was clearly a miscommunication and a disconnect between us. And so finally today, actually finally last night when we got back from our daughter's dance competition, I was like, "Come on, we need to go into the... I need to help you. we need to go into the garage, and I need to show you some things because I was just... my, I've hated seeing h- you in pain this week." And I was like, I need to help you." And up until now, I felt like you weren't asking for my help and in, in some ways even resisting my help. that was my perception. And in your head, I'm sure it was the opposite, that I just wasn't giving you the help. And so last night we did do some exercises, and then this morning I said to Kevin, "Okay, I just wanna ask, like, why haven't you asked for my help?" And Kevin said, "I thought I did." is that how you answered? I thought that I came up with something to the effect of I thought I had. but ultimately, like you said, I didn't, I never used the words can you help me and why not? And I think that this one falls to a lot of runners. I think this falls to a lot of people in general, but ultimately it comes down to I didn't wanna put you out. I didn't wanna be a burden to you. Yeah. it goes back to the story of, I couldn't put my pants on. I was trying to do something for you. Yeah. I don't want to be an extra burden for anybody else. Yeah. I'm trying to help other people, and so what ends up happening is this kind of backfires because I end up in pain, and I'm pushing away the people that can actually help me. Yeah, and I think that, not wanting to be a burden is a big one, and it's interesting because we- I've actually heard this from our teenage daughter a lot recently when I'm asking her why she doesn't want my help or why she doesn't come to me, and that's been her reason for a lot of things also. Yeah, I know. She gets some things from me. It's not ideal. and so I think that it's an interesting thing because in my mind, and I've told her this many times, and I'll tell you the same thing very publicly on the podcast, and I feel like I've told you this before, you are never a burden to me. you are not a burden to me. She is not a burden to me. I've repeated that so many times for her because I'm like, "I love helping you. I want to help you. I wanna do anything I can." you are the person in my life, the three of you are the people in my life that I want to do anything I can to help the most and never feel like any of you are a burden on me because I love being a wife, I love being a mother, and I love caring for all of you. And so when I was watching you struggle all week without being able to help, that was really hard for me because I felt like I didn't wanna overstep because you didn't ask me for my help, and so I didn't really know how to navigate it until... And I was just also curious, to be honest with you. I was curious of, is- How long's, how long is he gonna hobble around the house? Yes. Yes, genuinely. Like, how long is it gonna take him to ask for some help? Yeah, and so- 'Cause there's a stubbornness of that too. Of yes, I think that a big piece of that is, not wanting to be a burden. and I think that's a big part of who you are, of like you love to help other people, and you don't like it when the focus and the attention is on you. Yes. So that is mainly... we'll come up with some other things, and I think I, I fall into a couple other categories here also. But the main thing here is I, that you're trying to look out for the other people. Yeah. But what ends up happening, as you just clearly explained, I don't wanna be a burden to you, but then I put this undue mental burden on you because you're watching me walk around and suffer, where you have the ability to step in and help. So not wanting to be a burden, that's one, but you end up actually burdening the other person anyway because then they just have to watch you suffer. another one is I should be able to figure this out. I've been running since I was 14. I've dealt with lots of injuries. I've coached people with all sorts of various injuries. Yeah. I should be able to figure this thing out, and I do have a pretty good idea of what's going on. So I wasn't doing necessarily wrong things. It just wasn't the level of expertise that you could have brought to the situation. and that's part of why I didn't wanna just jump in without you asking, is I didn't wanna step on your toes and feel like I was getting in your way in any way, which is I know silly, but, there's a husband and wife dynamic here too, right? yes, I'm a physical therapist. Yes, I definitely know more about the human body than you do, and I know how to help you with this back pain, but there's also this relationship piece that we had to navigate in it as well. Yeah. So there's a lot on this one, but- Yeah to take it broader than just us, in this current age, the answer is available to you. Yeah. So this whole idea of I should be able to figure it out myself I think is very common with a lot of runners because we have so much information at our fingertips. We have Google. Now we can just ask Coach AI or Doctor AI or ChatGPT, DrChatGPT or whatever it is because there are so many answers. You can type in, "I, this is what happened," or you can even talk into these AI bots now and say, "Here's what happened. What is the problem?" And so we have the- False... How do I wanna phrase this? I'm, like, trying to pause and figure out how. I don't know, it's almost this false sense of confidence and false sense of expertise because of these tools. So we believe that we can self-diagnose and self-treat and sel- self-coach, and that idea is more accessible than ever. But that becomes so dangerous when it prevents people from getting the real help from real experts in those areas. AI to me is like the Dunning-Kruger effect on steroids. Oh my goodness. Like- That's so true you could- Because the whole idea of Dunning-Kruger is- 'Cause especially when you know just a little bit. Yeah. And then AI just confirms what you think it is. That's the thing is- Yeah the- as you just start to know a little bit of information, you feel very confident in the ability, and then you learn a little bit more, and you get less confident- until you've, reached a mastery that you realize that you only understand the big picture. But when you just get that little bit, your confidence is so sky high. And then you ask any s- any of the AIs, and they give you what you're telling them back with such confidence and such assurance that you're like, "Oh, clearly I know what I'm talking about now." Yeah. "This is exactly what's wrong with me, and this is exactly what I need to be able to do for it." Now, I didn't go this direction myself, but I s- it's so easy for people to go down this direction. Yeah. One, as runners, to want to be able to figure it out. And then the confidence that- Because we are motivated and self-directed and independent, like all those things we already talked about. Yeah. and the confidence that an AI engine will, will give you. That's not the right term, but the, that any of these guys will give you is real. Yeah. it's going to give you the confidence that you are doing the right thing. For sure. and that's how a lot of them are programmed also, is to essentially help inflate your sense of knowledge and ego. I know that when I use AI, or have used AI a lot in the past six months or so with our dog. with trying to ask and figure out how, what's happening with this dog, how do I change this? what... I've asked the questions on a lot of things, and it's "Yes, you are right." the first thing it likes to do is, affirm you- Yes in a lot of ways. And then it gives you an idea. But AI doesn't like to tell you that you're wrong. that's because people would stop using it- if it immediately told them they're wrong. Yeah. They want to have a positive relationship with their AI. So it- especially with the AIs that are genuinely designed to keep you using them. Yeah. So always affirm- Yeah and then move forward from that one. So that's a big one. a- another option, I don't wanna look weak. Runners hate looking weak. Yeah. It's like- Another option for why we don't seek help but it's the antithesis of running. Yeah. running is a strong thing. I can grit through, I can do this. Why would I not look help? Because I don't wanna look weak. Yeah. asking for help essentially suggests that this problem got too big, and I can no longer handle it. And no one really likes going that route- Yeah of this is beyond my ability. This is beyond what I can do. It's connected to the last one. I can figure this out, but it c- I can figure it out because if I have to go beyond me, beyond my immediate ability, then it's because I wasn't capable. Yeah. And that one's tough, and this one is definitely... I identify with this one and the last one a lot because I think those of us that do have a very large knowledge base, like I should be able to figure this out myself. I've been able to figure out so many other things, or I don't wanna look weak. And that's, I, this one is a big one for me, for sure, because I am a very capable person. I'm, I am a very strong person. I can handle a lot of stuff. So for me to say no to something Would assume that, I then can't handle it, but I don't think that's the right assumption to make. I think that we have to start looking at this differently because it's not that you can't handle it, it's that it's not your job to handle that thing, and I think that might have been a piece of what was going on my end of things as well, of like why I didn't jump in to help without you asking me. We'll get to why you didn't jump in a second. Yeah. Let's keep going on why, reasons I possibly didn't ask for help. not necessarily just you, but people in general, right? But in general. Like the psychology of not asking for help. So another reason why maybe you don't ask for help when you need it is that you've tried once before asking for help and it didn't go well. Maybe you have asked people in the past, and this could be s- all the way from childhood when you asked for help, and maybe you felt dismissed or judged or misunderstood, and then that experience made you very much hesitate to ever ask again. there's people that have such bad experiences when asking for help and they're like, I'm never putting myself in that position again," because it was so difficult the way that situation was handled. That's why AI is designed to say yes first. Like it's one of the things, like as a teacher when students ask questions, like the last thing that you wanna do is make the student feel dumb even if their question is clearly a sign that they have no idea what's going on- and they probably haven't been listening for the last two weeks. It's like they're finally asking, so you wanna be like, "Oh, I see what you're doing here." Like you want to assure and reassure them and then guide them towards the correct thing and not put them in a position that they're never going to ask the question again. exactly. But there's so many students that is where a lot of this trauma comes from, is asking a question in class and being shot down by a teacher or by m- being made fun of by another student or something to that effect, and they're like, I'm not gonna ask for help anymore." Yeah, it's one of the biggest things I have to do 'cause, in pre-calculus, everybody's got questions. the smartest kid in the room has questions. Yeah. And I'm... I do my best all year long to be like, "Look, anybody can ask a question at any point in time. I'm gonna make mistakes on the board all year long. Stop me. Point out the things that are going wrong- so that we are all aware that mistakes are going to happen, and we can all ask questions." Yeah. it's just- I love that it's this open environment. It makes it a much nicer place. For sure. And then finally, another reason why you might not ask for help is that you're not even sure what kind of help you need. So sometimes the barrier isn't your pride or your ego. I think that's what it is most of the time, or- It's most of the time or these traumatic experiences that have ingrained these beliefs in ourselves of not asking for help. but sometimes it's confusion. Sometimes people don't ask for help 'cause they don't really even know what to ask for, and I think that happens in a lot of scenarios because you're not even sure what question you would wanna ask. And I know that this has definitely happened to me in, business and other things. I'm on these calls with, these amazing business coaches, and I'm not even sure what my question is. So it's hard to get help if I don't even know what my question is. I think from the running side, this happens a lot with new runners. you go back a couple spots of, in this information age, there are so many answers. So many answers. Yeah. And so if you check the internet for the appropriate way to be training, the correct training method, you're gonna have thousands of them. Yeah. And they all seem like the most important thing, and so where would you even ask the question? what is the question even supposed to be? Because you have 100 different questions. You're not even sure how to put them together into one. But ultimately, there's all these reasons why we don't ask for help, and what we might not realize is that there is a cost of not asking. I think that our brains wanna tell us that the cost of asking for help is great, and it's greater than the cost of not asking for help because we don't wanna look dumb or, for all the reasons that we just talked about. Yeah, but we don't actually calculate the cost of- Not asking of not asking. We just assume in our head it's big. But, and, and- so for you, what did this week cost? it cost me a week of training. Yeah. I had some big summer plans. This cost me dozens and dozens of miles. I... This probably cost me, 50 miles. It cost me poor nights of sleep. This cost a lot of aggre- aggravation and frustration. This cost me brushing my teeth poorly for a week, 'cause honestly leaning forward and trying to brush my teeth is super painful. Yeah. But it's... I- if you take this to a bigger thing of, of a general running injury, this could be the kind of thing that is not taking you out for a week. This could take you out for a training cycle. And then if you get hurt, you take some time off, you come back, and you haven't asked the questions, you're just gonna repeat that same injury training cycle. Yeah. Now this could cost you a year. This could cost you multiple years of training- because you're just not asking the question. You're like, "Oh, I can handle it. I can keep gritting through," but you're never actually getting off that plateau. So it's costing you years of potential progress- that you're not actually getting to because the consistency isn't there, 'cause you're not asking the questions that will enable consistency. Yeah, and also for us, this week cost kind of the relationship dynamic in the house as well because I didn't know when I should step in and help, and you... So when I asked you that question this morning, I said, "Why didn't you ask?" And you said, "I didn't want..." Or I... you said, "I think, I thought I did." And I said, "No, you've never actually asked me for help." And you said, I didn't wanna be a burden." And, so then it, we both had this aha moment I think, and then you came over a couple minutes later and just gave me a kiss and said, "Thank you, and I'm sorry." And I'm like, "What are you apologizing for? What are you sorry for?" And I apologized because I was getting increasingly mad at you- Yeah as the week got, kept going. as the week was going on and on and you weren't doing anything, I was getting more frustrated with you. Yeah. Which that, I'm not even taking that into the account of the cost, and that's huge. Yeah. that was putting a wall between the two of us- which is never ideal. Especially in, in, big dance competition weekend. Yeah. I, it, we had to separate what was going on then I thought, 'cause obviously the focus is on our kiddo. But, so- What about me, in, in this whole scenario? why- that's what I was gonna say is let's go the other direction is- Yeah that we covered a bunch of reasons why I or anybody in general might not ask. But why not help? Why not step in? And there are a whole lot of valid reasons- Yeah to not step in. Yeah, and we had a really good workshop with our clients last week, and we were talking about, diet culture and GLP-1s and supplements and all sorts of things. And one of our clients asked a really great question of, "If I have a friend that is on these medications or considering these medications and I wanna talk to them about my concerns, how would I start that conversation? How... what's a good way to approach the subject?" And my first response was, the first thing that I can tell you that I have learned so, so many times in my life is don't help someone that doesn't want your help. Don't offer unsolicited advice because most of the time it's not going to be received well." Which is completely valid for all sorts of reasons. Yes. But specifically this week, if you offered me advice before I was ready to accept it- I would've snapped at you. Yeah. And- and that's how I felt. Yeah. trying to judge the energy in the household with you, so in my mind, and I think Kevin and I have s- two different accounts of what happened this week. We have very different accounts. 'Cause, in, just in this podcast alone and in the, our little discussion, earlier today, we have different accounts of what happened. 'Cause in my mind, I offered to help him, and he didn't want my help. And in, but, and he, in his mind, I never offered to help him, and he was just waiting for me to offer- Yes basically, right? Yes. And I felt like I kept putting little things out there of not "Okay, Kevin, here's what we're going to do," like me just jumping in and taking charge, which is what I normally do in life, to be fair. So it was- I love you so much. It is going to... It's a valid expectation for you, I think, to say, Angie's just gonna jump in and help, and she's just gonna help me figure this out," because that is what I do typically, is I just do things. But in the past, that's made me into, I've noticed that I've bulldozed different situations or offered unsolicited advice that was not wanted. And when I offer unsolicited advice, a lot of times it doesn't land the way that I intend. And if you, look at this exact situation, if you didn't want my help because you wanted to try to figure it out on your own, I wanted to respect that. And just because I know what, I know, I think I know how to help you doesn't mean that you want my help. And so that's why I was waiting for you to ask for my help, 'cause I didn't wanna give my help if it wasn't wanted. 'Cause if you give it when it's not wanted, the person on the receiving end can sit there feeling all judged. They're feeling all micromanaged. They could feel condescended to. "I'm taking care of things. Why are you trying to step in?" is often what's happening where- And that's happened to me many times in the past. Well- So it's not like this is unfounded out of nowhere. When the intention is completely pure, the intention is, "I just am trying to assist you," and you know what you're doing. it's not just the intention is pure. The intention is pure, and it's likely going to have good results. It's likely gonna have better results than me trying to figure it out myself in this specific case. But just in general, be careful with unsolicited advice. Because if it's not asked for, it might not be received the way that you're hoping it's getting received. And a- another reason that is, is connected, like all these things are connected, is in the past when I have given unsolicited advice to people that don't want it- There's often an issue with follow-through. People don't actually do what I tell them to do because they're- they didn't really ask for the help- that I'm giving them. They didn't ask for the help- so they're not gonna- So- they're not gonna use it. And e- even when people do ask for help, and I guess this is, another piece that we can get into as well, then I just end up feeling frustrated 'cause I'm like, I know what you should be doing to help you get better." And this is part of the issue that I have with a lot of people, that on, on the social media, right? on social media, there's a lot of people that will reach out, and ask for advice, and these people will actually ask for it, but I feel like a lot of times when I tell them or when I've told them what to do in the past, they don't follow through on that because that advice is free. yeah. that's gonna- And this is different for our situation 'cause obviously you're my husband, but- No, we're putting this more into, the- Yeah the general picture that I think beyond just what actually happened this week. Yeah. but yeah, not following through. if someone actually directly reaches out and asks you for help through social media, there's an assumption that they're asking you- and no one else. But it's possible that they're asking multiple sources- True and you're one of them. That's true. It's possible they'd already checked Google and are now cross-referencing you- Possibly to get various things. Either way, it's if they're not following through, then that's super frustrating for the person who's giving the advice. I took the time to give careful advice for you- why aren't you just using it?" Yeah. And then the other piece is that when I have given unsolicited advice in the past, because a lot of times I can assess a situation and know, at least I should say, I say know what to do, but it's really just my opinion on what people should or shouldn't be doing. they're not always ready to hear that, or they don't always wanna hear that. Sometimes they're just venting, and they just want me to listen. They don't actually want a solution. And then if I offer a solution, then it can actually backfire and go against me, and they can s- be like, "Oh, Angie's such a know-it-all, and she thinks she knows the solution to all the problems." you did just say you knew the solution to the hypothetical problem- that you had created there. I feel like I do know a lot of good stuff. I know. Okay. So another- So maybe it's the way I present it, too- All right. So- for some people a possible nother reason to- Yeah to not, just pass out the advice is this investment piece. A, when people actually invest in something- Yeah whatever that investment is, whether it's a financial investment, an actual emotional investment, they're going to value that information coming at them differently. And this is the issue, it goes back to searching Google. That's free. Like- you can get so many answers, and you can get them so quickly. Check it on YouTube. You got 1,000 different videos that you can watch. But when you've invested something, you're going to show up differently with that piece of information. You're actually more likely to do the work. Yeah, I've learned this one a lot- Throughout the years as well, and it's been really hard for me because people will come to me and ask for advice. And I'll In the past, I have spent a lot of time crafting plans for people or really long answers and explanations for people, and then they don't use my advice, or they don't use the plan because it does matter. I think about all of the free things that I've signed up for, different email series or videos or all of these different things, and the ones one of my things, one of the things that my coach says that has stuck with me for sure is that the transformation begins with the transaction. And so there needs to be some sort of energy exchange between people. S- sometimes it's money, sometimes it's time or effort or an exchange of some sort, but there has to be some sort of exchange because then you actually value it more. And one of the things, this is one of the big reasons why I don't give out free advice and I don't just do unlimited coaching for free because no matter how good of a coach I am, if the person that is asking the question on the other end is not truly invested in the answer and in the follow-through to that, then it's not going to change anything. This used to drive me nuts when I got into teaching- Yeah because the school day ends around 2:30. it's varied over the years that I've taught, and I've s- I stay on campus on my contract until 3:15. And students are told, "If you're struggling in a class, you can go talk to the teacher, and you got 45 minutes at the end of the day to go talk to all your teachers." And I have so many kids that ask me, the only thing that they'll ask for help on is, "Do you know anybody who tutors?" And it's I'm here and available. Literally, your teacher- is available for free for 45 minutes after school, and they're all hiring outside tutors, and it used to drive me nuts. It used to really offend me. Why not just come ask me for help? They don't need to. Maybe it, it sticks better if they feel like there's more money. Maybe their parents are grilling them more if their parents are paying for an outside tutor. I don't know what it is, but I think that it, there is an investment piece in this- that actually helps them perform better. Yeah. And so I've just gotten over it. Yeah, and so those are some of the reasons why I didn't push my help on you, because I think that some of that is lessons that I've learned in the past of wanting to help people that didn't want or weren't ready for my help, and that's why I was just waiting for you to ask. And I was really hoping that you would ask me, 'cause I really wanted to help you, 'cause I just, I hated seeing you in pain, suffering all week last week. And that's why ultimately last night I was like, "All right, come on. We just have to go into the garage." "Can I please help you?" Which was fantastic. 'Cause that's all I wanted. Yeah. All I wanted was for you to say, "Let's just go to the garage, and I'm, we're gonna do some exercises." Yeah. "I'm gonna, I'm gonna take care of you." Yeah. I know. And, maybe I should've done that sooner. it's hard to say. I think that's probably what you wanted. And I think that there was also a piece of me, if I'm being totally honest, that was waiting to see when you would actually just ask for help. Because I think that there is a humility that's necessary there, and I think that there is that piece of in general, you do tend to listen to what I ask of you or tell you to do, especially when it comes to this kind of stuff, because you know my expertise, my level of expertise, of the body. But I, I just think that there was a piece that I just, I wanted you to ask me. And I think that it's possible that the lesson that I needed is that I need to ask you for more help- with mobility- Yeah always. yes, asking for help is always a good thing, but also just doing the mobility always would be a good idea- of like getting that into a regular routine that you know what to do. No, but this is a thing, like bigger picture. You brought this up. This was one of your suggestions post last Ultra. One, more strength. Oh, yeah. I totally agree with more strength. And two, you suggested that throughout the race- on a regular basis- I should work on mobility. That's true. Like I should work on mobility beforehand, but I think that this is a highlight of how important it is to take your advice and not just grit through the Ultra. 'Cause I can make it to the finish line. I just think listening to you is gonna make it to the finish line a nicer process. Is there a reason that you don't listen to me? Is it like an ego thing? Just curious. that's just curious. I don't, what were my five options at the beginning? 'Cause that one's not to try to be a burden. Not to bother you. I should be able to figure this out myself. That one. I should be able to figure this out myself. Okay. So well, that takes us actually perfectly into our next section of when to ask for help and who to ask, right? Because- ask Angie. I do not have all the answers. She does. I f- I sometimes think that I do, but like in reality- She's very humble, but she has all of the answers I do not, and a- I have to keep remembering, reminding myself that I don't. 'Cause of the lo- there is a lot of things that I do know, but there's also I don't have all the answers. So it is important for us to ask for help and know who to ask and go to that person because I need help at times as well, and that is not an easy thing to do, to admit that I don't know something And to figure out who I should ask for help because I wanna ask an expert. I wanna ask someone that actually knows what they're talking about. And in this day and age with information and social media and everybody talking like they have the confidence in whatever subject they're talking about, it can be very confusing to even know who to trust and who to get your information from. Yeah. Social media sounds like it's full of experts- Yeah and some people actually are, and some people just speak with great confidence. They just deliver it very well. Yeah. And you gotta figure out that difference. Yeah. So options on when to ask, you've been dealing with this problem for weeks, and there's no signs of improvement. that's your thing. y- yeah, great, try and figure it out on your own. That's fine. But if you've been trying and it's not progressing- Yeah you need to ask. Yeah, I think it's at least two weeks. I tend to even default to, a week, but somewhere between one and two weeks if there has been no sign of improvement, and then especially if it's getting worse in any way. You should definitely seek help. Yeah, I think there's a gray area on this, and it's connected to who to ask and how easily available that is 'cause- I probably should have asked at 24 hours. I- and that's way less than two weeks. Yeah. we're recording at less than two weeks. And I've, I'm long past when to ask, but that's connected to who to ask. We'll get there in a second. and, s- just also keep in mind as we go through these things, a lot of them we are referring to pain, but these can really go for a lot of other problems in your life too. if there's another problem that's going on in your life, maybe it's with a relationship, do you really wanna go two weeks without trying to figure out how to fix that relationship? Because it's just going to likely keep getting worse if you don't address it. Yeah, or there's an issue at work. Should you just deal with that for the next two weeks- or maybe talk to your boss? Yeah. So two weeks I feel is a pretty good- End point for nothing over that. N- Like even sooner yes. You could go sooner- Likely sooner but that's probably the line where it's like- That's like the thing all right, just ask now. Yeah. So another time that's really good to ask for help is when the problem is affecting more than one area of your life. So specifically with pain, if you have pain that is affecting sleep, training, your mood, relationships, that is a good s- time to go find some help. And so many of these things are connected to each other. One dominoes into the next. Yeah. If it affects your sleep, that's probably gonna affect your training. If it affects your training, if you're a little bit like me, that's likely going to affect your mood. And your mood is then going to affect your relationship with others and oh, quickly it has just spiderwebbed its way into all areas of your life. Yeah. Especially when you blame others for not helping you. I'm sorry. Or for not no, for not I don't 'cause there's other ways that we can blame people as well though. 'Cause a lot of times we don't wanna take the responsibility. That's a huge one. And it's not ju- just our situation, but I think there's a lot of times where we look to blame, and I think that's a very human characteristic. It's a quick default- Yeah because then you don't have to take the ownership of the thing. Yeah. If you can find an external cause of it and point to that issue, but that's likely gonna affect relationships. Because you're, if especially if you're blaming another person for it. Yeah. So maybe that's another one, like looking for blame. if, are there areas where you're blaming other people or the situation or your own circumstances for the problem? That could be a, an indication of it might be time to ask for some help there too. Yeah, 'cause an outside source is gonna be able to like hopefully have a bit more of an objective look at it- and be like, "That's not really the source of your issue. The source of your issues might be a little closer to home." Yeah. So another time would be when you've tried the obvious things and they haven't worked. if you've started to do some exercises or if you started to try some stretches or those kinds of things and they haven't been working. When you a- notice yourself avoiding the situation, like you're just trying to ignore it, pretend it's not there, because oftentimes avoidance is a sign that something needs attention. Yeah, I thought this was an interesting- We runners are very good at this one. that's literally how you run the third mile of a 5K is avoidance. that is mo- Yeah that is a go-to technique. It's true. It is avoidance. Yeah, because it's a short period of time, so you just have to put your head down and get through it. You need other strategies in longer races, but third mile of a 5K, avoidance is a good one to go to. Yeah. And so when you try and take that to something for a long-term approach, that's usually a sign there's an issue. If you're trying to avoid it and the pain, in this case pain, is so great that you can't- that's a pretty good sign you should be asking for help also. Yeah. and then the last one I think is connected to the why I suggested two weeks might be too much. If there's someone in your life who clearly knows more than you about this very specific thing who is right there in front of you Maybe ask for help. Maybe just, maybe, "Hey, w- c- is there anything you could do to help me?" Yeah. "Because oh my God, my back hurts." Yeah, and I think that's a tricky I understand why you wouldn't want to take advantage of that, because that can be a tricky thing. When you have someone in your life, maybe it's a physical therapist, maybe it's a doctor, maybe it's a lawyer, maybe it's someone that is a professional in some area, it doesn't wa- You don't wanna seem like you're taking advantage of that person, and so I know that there are a lot of times that people don't ask because they don't wanna, quote-unquote, "take advantage of the friendship." Yes. And ask someone something that is, something that person does for a living, and they don't wanna ask for free advice. Yeah, and it goes back to the why is it so difficult to ask? It goes back to why you're not just gonna go out and offer free advice to various things, because it's not gonna be well-received. also, why does it have to be free? if you have an expert in your life that knows what they're talking about, become a client. Yes. Like, why not just pay that person for their expertise? And this is something that I find so funny, and someone pointed this out on the internet. I think it wa- I saw it on someone's story or somewhere on Instagram about how quickly people will buy something, products or services, from a stranger or a stranger's recommendation. But yet, someone in their life that they know, love, and trust that does something, they don't want to purchase or they think that they should be getting those services or things for free. w- why wouldn't you want to support your friend doing that thing? Es- especially if that's their business. So what you're saying is I should have set up an appointment and filed an insurance claim. Filed a No, I don't take insurance. Dumb. Cash pay only. Buggers. All right. so- Coming from the same bank account, that's not really gonna do much, either. Really, I think it's gonna be a net loss on that one. All right. So who w- we've figured we've gone through who, like, when to ask. Who is it that you should ask, actually be asking? And this one's key, and this one is very key in social media and Google world. Because the right help is very specific. Yeah. Okay? Someone who's been through something similar is very different from a professional who has clinical expertise in the area. Oh my gosh, yes. Because they're both super valuable, but for very different things. Yeah. And it really, you've gotta figure out what it is that you're going for. I'm so glad that you pointed this out, because this was something that I was feeling alm- like I wanted to rant about a little bit on social media, and I actually decided not to record the video at this point. But- My point is I saw a video the other day that someone put out, and she put out very good information about hybrid training, about combining running and lifting together, and I was watching this video. Every- I liked everything that she said in the video. And then I went into the comments, this was on YouTube, and in the comments, one person made a comment of, "You clearly know what you're talking about because look at your body," or some- something about, "Your body tells me that you clearly know what you're talking about." And we have to be really careful there because someone's body shape, what their body looks like, their muscle mass, their tone, all of that does not mean that they're an expert because you have no idea what kind of history they have. They could have been a competitive gymnast their whole life, and so they've just been muscular and in shape and fit since they were seven or six years old, and they've just continued that thing. That doesn't mean that they know how to coach other people to do what they're doing right now. And there's also genetic differences and all sorts of issues. So we have to be really careful because I think that is one of the things that people use on social media nowadays, is they look at someone, and if they have the right look, then they assume that they're an expert. Yeah, but that right look could also be a little AI-adjusted and filtered, right? It could be AI-adjusted. You don't know what their eating patterns are like, if they have some sort of disorder eating habits. there's so many things that we- If they're taking a whole lot of supplements that they're not mentioning. There's so many things that we don't know, and so we have to really be careful because someone that has been able to do it for themself doesn't, it does not mean that they are an expert that is going to be able to help you because every person is different. And the way that some, one person's body responds to training is different than a way that other people's, bodies respond to training, which is why it's important to have a mix of both scientific knowledge and experience and expertise. that's how you become an expert, is combining those two things. Yeah. you make the visual point on that one. There's also people who come out and drop the times that they've run- Yes, that's another big one and then follow it up with training advice, and they're like, "Oh, clearly this person's very fast-" Right so they must know what they're doing." They must know what they're talking about, yeah. Not necessarily. There are plenty of genetic freaks that would be terrible coaches. There are also some genetic freaks who would go on to be fantastic coaches. So it's not necessarily that the time leads... It's not a good predictor of- Yeah whether that person can coach or not. So who else should you ask? Make sure that you are matching the problem to the expertise. So a running plateau, you not seeing the progress that you want in your running, is different from a running injury. A nutrition question is different from a body image struggle. So getting the right type of help matters just as much as actually asking the question. you have to go to the right person. So make sure that you know the background of whoever it is that you're asking. if you are watching social media, g- click on those profiles. Don't just take some random video that you see and be like, "Oh, that makes sense. I'm gonna follow that advice." Click on the profile. Actually see the background of the person that's giving you that thing. Yeah, 'cause that makes sense, I'm gonna follow that advice, is definitely gonna have some bias towards what you- 100%. The advice that you were hoping to receive already. and that's what our human brains do naturally, right? We always want confirm- we have what... It's called confirmation bias. That's the term I was trying to find. Yeah, so basically we want information and evidence that the belief that we currently hold is correct, and we are going to find and seek out that information, and we are going to use that to confirm what we already believe, and then anything that doesn't, align with that current belief, we're a lot of times going to delete it. We don't even realize it's there. Our brain just sees it as not important. All right, and then the last one on who to advice, I gotta go back to the AI of who to ask. AI's not a great source 'cause they sound like an expert. and they sound like they have all personal anecdotal evidence also, but they don't really have either of them. They just, if you ask AI, it always comes back with a huge amount of confidence. What AI has is a great amount of information- Yeah and a nice clean way of organizing it and giving it back to you. It, but you have to realize that what you're looking at is a starting point- not necessarily the final answer. They don't have the history of practice, and they don't have any actual personal anecdotes 'cause it's a computer. Yeah, and so they pull information from all over the internet, and so you don't know w- if that information is good information, if it's bad information, if it's research-based, if it's just some blog that they found on the internet. So you have to really be careful with the information that you get there. And that really highlights one of the big things that we want to highlight in this episode as well, which is the difference between knowledge and experience. And this is a difference that really matters, because we've never had more access to information, and I think that all of that information has caused so much confusion with people. we've never been more confused about our health, our body, our training, and more information has clearly not helped us in any way. you could argue this point, and I think maybe we will at some point in time. But I think that in general, when you just look at health trends, you could se- you can see how much more information we have about ourselves, and you can also see the health of the United States and the health of people all over the world. These two things are not matching up. the health of the United States is still very poor. Most people are overweight or obese. Most people have chronic health conditions, especially over a certain age. it keeps getting worse and worse. So clearly this knowledge has not done what we hoped it would do, I would say. Yeah, it's interesting from the teacher perspective. So knowledge versus experience. Knowledge is specifically what you could read or watch or get out of a textbook, like the knowledge, the information that could directly come to you from a book, from a YouTube video, from whatever. But experience is then the ability to apply that knowledge- and depending on your background, to apply that knowledge over thousands of hours of working either with yourself or other- Yeah people. It's the application. And application is so much more difficult. If I remember correctly from learning, like way back when I learned how to be a teacher, knowledge is level one and application is level four. and level four is so much trickier. Yeah. And I'm teaching k- kids right now, and they just want to be told, "What is the fact I have to memorize so I can spit that fact back to you?" Yeah. And as soon as I make them apply it, they all get super, super confused. Because application is very tricky. Yeah, and I think physical therapy is the perfect example of that. the science of PT is very evidence-based, and that's one of the things that got really drilled into us in PT school, was evidence-based practice, EBP. this is what we want. We want research. We want science behind everything that we do. And all of those principles are really great, and taking those into the clinic is a fantastic background and basis for treatment. But then it was my job to then take all of that science and then apply it to each person, and unfortunately, most people aren't the textbook case, right? We have A textbook case is a, it's a name for a reason. that, if it's not textbook, which most people are not, then you have to figure out what to do here. You're like, but this is what that case study told me I was supposed to do," and then you try that thing and it doesn't work. And then you're like, "Okay, now where am I?" Yeah. And one of the big things that I realized throughout my years in PT I've been doing this for 20 years now, is really understanding the whole picture. Because PT and science evidence, any really, most scientific evidence looks at one, maybe two factors at most, and you try to drill it down and make it as much as we can't, we don't exist in a vacuum, we do our best in scientific research to try to isolate certain variables, and that's just not the way that humans are wired. we have to take all of the other lifestyle factors into account. We have to, I, you have to know people's history. I have to know what their nutrition is, their lifestyle factors, because their stress load, their, sleep, all of those things interact with their physical wellbeing and will affect the outcomes of my treatment. Yeah, this is so much like coaching i- inside the running world as well. Yeah. there's running theory and then there's how you're actually going to apply that, that coaching theory to an individual runner. And it varies so much, and you can put the same workload on them for three months, they get results. You put it onto them for another three months and they get worse results- Yeah because the other outside sources might change. In running it's super weird. Everybody loves to be like, "All right, what did the study say in order to do it?" But running tends to be backwards, is coaches come up with an idea and then scientists come up with a study to show why that idea actually performed well. It's the weirdest environment to live inside of. Yeah. But it is important for us to just realize that both for running, for PT, for coaching, for a lot of things in our life, it's both a science and an art. Like even in other areas of re- relationships, right? think about there's tons of marriage advice, there's tons of parenting advice. And it's good advice. It's really good basis for the way that you wanna live your life or the relationships that you wanna have, and then you put those things into practice where for some reason my 16-year-old didn't realize that's exactly the way that she was supposed to be acting, and so then my response did not land the way that it was supposed to land. And it just is more messy than that. Like life is messy and that's important for us to understand is that experience, like you need both, right? You need both knowledge and experience. We cannot substitute experience for just more and more knowledge, which is what's happening- I think that- out there right now that's why grandparents always I think laugh to themselves when they see parents with a book on parenting. Yeah. They're, "Yeah, that's a good book. Like you have fun with that one." It's true. But it's also when you're a parent and you get to a point, like we have a friend, one of my running buddies, who is at the beginning of her parenting journey. Like she's just starting to consider becoming pregnant right now. Like they're, her and her husband are "Okay, we think that we're ready to start trying to have babies." And it's like what was, "What's it like to be a parent?" And it's oh, you can't even explain it, right? No. Because it's just, it's both the best thing you'll ever do and the hardest thing that you'll ever do, and no one can prepare you for it. So I think that this whole knowledge versus experience thing can be really well summed up by a metaphor that one of my coaches uses, which is learning how to ride a bike. Someone can hand you a book to teach you how to learn how to ride a bike, and you could read the whole book and have the knowledge on how to ride a bike in theory. But until you actually get on the bike and feel what that feels like to balance the bike and to push the pedals and to get, make all of that work together, you don't actually know how to ride a bike. You have the knowledge, but you don't have the experience, and so you can't actually ride the bike until you go out and do it. Yeah, I like that summary. I think there's one other piece inside this that I wanna just briefly touch on, and that's the idea of who you get the information from is someone that you have to trust. someone that you feel like they've also got some skin in the game. They've also got some investment. And some of that can come from experience, and it doesn't have to be, like, exact experience. Yeah. you coach runners to run a marathon, and you've never run a marathon. You've helped me run ultras. You've never run an ultra. Like, when I had an issue in my classroom a few years ago, several years ago, I went to my principal, and while he'd never been in a science classroom, he was able to give me advice on this. even if that person has experience that is basically connected, there's a level of trust that you have that their knowledge, their experience will be beneficial for you. And they can They might even be able to see what you're doing from a different perspective. But you have to- have full faith in the person that you're asking, and that, I think, is the challenge of social media and AI is. Yeah. there's no good reason to trust Well, and I think that trust is built too, right? And I think that that's- There's no reason to trust immediately- Yeah probably is a better way to say it. Yeah. So what does all this mean for your running? o- I want you all, like we try to do in every episode, is to apply this to you. is there an area of your life that you are struggling? Like, where are you currently struggering, struggling? Maybe it's with an injury or a plateau, it's a training question, a nutrition issue, a mindset pattern, and you're not asking for help. Is there another area of your life where you're seeing a pattern happening and you're not asking for help? And then ask yourself, first of all, identify that, and then ask, what is it actually costing you? And I want you to do this without the guilt and shame that o- lot of times comes along with it, because I think that's- Which is gonna be tricky it's a very tricky thing to do because they're like, what is this costing me?" And it's once you start to see what it's costing you, then guilt and shame definitely wanna jump on the wagon, because that's what our human brains like to do. But in just a real and very practical way, like how many weeks or months or training cycles or years have gone by while you've been just trying to figure this out alone and you're not getting the answers or the help or support that you need? I think this is a really big one, especially for women in perimenopause too. This is a very tricky one of, both identifying what you're struggling with and what the cost is, because a lot of people are ignoring what the cost is. That's what we mentioned back earlier in the episode. And being very objective of this is the issue and this is the cost- can then determine is, am I at a point where I need to ask for help? Yeah. Where it's very clear what the cost is for you. because asking for help is not weakness, and I think that we have to really reframe the whole way that we look at asking for help. It's not okay, I finally can ask for help because it's gotten bad enough. I think that's another piece that we haven't really addressed yet. you can ask for help right away. You don't have to wait two weeks. You don't have to wait a week. You don't have to wait any amount of time. You can just ask for help. And I think that for me- It hasn't necessarily been about my training, but it's taking on things in life. Like just saying yes and taking on too much in life, and just being like, "Yep, I can handle it. I can handle it," instead of just asking for help. Like yesterday, I think, I was making dinner, and I was like, "Hey, anybody wanna help me make some meatballs?" And part of that was tr- trying to get my daughters to spend time with me, not gonna lie. And they both said no, and then Kevin said, "I'll help you." I raised my hand. Yeah, which I appreciated, but it's also that it doesn't have to take me as long to make these meatballs because I have someone that's willing to help me. So with two of us doing it was half the time, and dinner was ready sooner. It's just because I decided I wanted to ask for help. And asking for help is not a weakness. It can actually be a huge strength because then you can outsource the things that you're maybe not that good at or that other people can do better than you, or that when you bring in that extra person in, then it makes the task go faster and things are just more, run more efficiently. All of those are good things. So asking for help, it's not like you have to wait till a certain point to do that. Yeah, and even if you're thoroughly confident that you have the answer, like this is an area in- I know how to make meatballs. Yeah. I, y- I, we did not cut it in half because I was helping. Yes, we did. but we did reduce the time. It was faster. it was faster. I know how to make meatballs, but it still, I still asked for help because then we got it done quicker. Yeah. But, okay, meatballs is actually a pretty decent example on this one. That is within your expertise and not mine, and yet I was still able to provide some benefit for you. There you go. Okay? But you can take this to other scenarios. There could be something well within your wheelhouse, but you, because it's personally affecting you, you're too close to even see the issue. Oh, yes. That's also a time to reach out and get help because the problem is so deeply connected to who you are that you can't see what the issue is. And you're like, no. I know everything about this scenario." Okay, but not when it's directly to you. You could solve it if it was on somebody else- but you're gonna need help letting somebody help you frame that. Yeah. Sometimes we're just too close to it, and I know that happens to me a lot in business. I'll be looking at this, and I think it's, such a good thing, and this makes no sense, and I under- I don't understand why it's not doing what I want it to do or what it's supposed to do. And then I can talk to a friend about it, and they could say, it's just this. Have you looked at it from this angle?" And I'm like, "Oh, that's what it is." And it's just because I was too close. I'm too invested in what's going on that I have a hard time zooming out to sometimes see the bigger picture. Yes. Speaking of investment, when you are able to reframe the investment, when you are able to actually fully invest in the correct help, whether that's financially or emotionally, you are then going to show up and do the work. You're actually going to change the relationship you have with the information. That information doesn't just become more information flowing into you. It then turns into action. It turns into something that will move you towards a new future outcome. Yeah, and going back to the piece of being too close to it also, I think that this was a really important note that I wanted to say about you. You understand mobility and you understand strength, so it's something that you definitely could have done for yourself in that, it- like in the whole back rehab thing. But one of the pieces that you didn't really understand 'cause you couldn't tell is the quality of the movement that you were having and how to link your breath to it in a way of "Am I actually performing this movement correctly?" Because, yes, you are doing it, but w- if you don't activate the right muscles and, actually get the right movement pattern, then it's not gonna be as effective. And I think that's where you were having a hard time is just, knowing if you're actually doing that exercise correctly and if you're getting the proper movement. Yeah. I wasn't necessarily doing anything wrong. I just wasn't doing it as efficiently as- I could have with some assistance. Yeah, and I think that's really one of th- the, other areas where experts can come in handy. So identify one area of your running or your health or your life right now where you've been trying to figure it out alone, and then ask yourself, "Is there someone who could help me move through this faster or better than I can on my own?" And then take a step. maybe reach out to that person, and get some help and see what happens. And understand that just because you've maybe asked for help in the past and it didn't go well doesn't mean that you should never ask for help again. Because there's plenty of people out there that can help you get the support that you really need. Yeah. Because asking for help, it's not weakness. It's not a sign that you can't handle it. It's not a sign that you're failing. It's a sign that you actually understand the difference between what you can figure out solo and what you can't, that you actually value the efficiency of getting the thing done- and getting it done correctly, and that's the path that you would like to take to move forward. You're not a bother. Thank you. You're not a bother. I know. I still sometimes feel like it, though. You are not. You listeners are not. get the help you need. it's, actually a strength. it's a good thing. So for the record, you can ask me for help, Kev, anytime you need it. All right. I still may need some help this afternoon. All right, you guys. If this was helpful for you, please share it with a friend, especially if there's someone out there that you know doesn't ask for the help that they need. Because this is one of those things that, plagues a lot of us, I think, in life, especially those of us that are higher achievers and higher performers. share this with a friend. Leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts so that more people can find the podcast. And as always, thanks for spending this time with us. This has been the Real Life Runners podcast, episode number 466. Now get out there and run your life.