446: Faith Over Fear

Fear doesn’t always look obvious. Sometimes it shows up as overthinking, second-guessing, or feeling stuck and unsure of your next move. In this episode, we talk about what it really means to choose faith over fear — not just in running, but in everyday life.

Inspired by a meaningful Christmas gift with the words “Faith Over Fear,” this conversation dives into how fear can quietly impact training, consistency, and confidence. We share personal stories and coaching insights on how fear often tries to pull us out of alignment with who we are and who we’re becoming.

You’ll learn how to recognize fear when it’s disguising itself, simple tools like breath and awareness to reset your nervous system, and practical ways to move forward even when things feel uncertain.

If you’ve ever felt stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure in your running or life, this episode is a reminder that you don’t need all the answers — just the willingness to take the next step with trust and support.

00:42 Recap of Kevin's Long Haul 100 Experience

02:36 Post-Race Recovery Insights

05:48 Understanding Fear and Its Disguises

14:16 The Impact of Stress on Our Lives and Running

23:27 Overcoming Fear and Embracing Faith

26:12 Challenging the Comfort Zone

26:29 Race Reflections and Lessons Learned

28:37 Balancing Fear and Faith in Running

40:14 Parenting: Faith Over Fear

43:52 Nutrition and Health: Evolving Beliefs

46:46 Practical Steps to Overcome Fear

Join the 30 Day Running Reset and get a plan that will help you build a strong and injury-proof body by combining running and strength training in a way that actually works for runners like you.

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Transcript

0:00

So my daughter got me a sweatshirt for Christmas that says Faith Over Fear. That's what it says in the front, and it says it in the back in really pretty writing. And there's a Bible verse on it as well. But that phrase has just been coming into my head a lot lately. And so today we're gonna reflect on what does faith over fear mean actually for us. And we're also gonna be talking about the tricky ways that fear often shows up and masks itself. Because fear doesn't always look like fear. It doesn't always feel like being scared or afraid. It can show up in other tricky ways. So we're gonna talk about that, how it affects your running and all the things today. So stay tuned. What's up runners? Welcome back to the show today. What's up, Kev? Hey, how's it going? Thank you guys so much to every single person that reached out about last week's episode. As if you haven't listened to that one, we did a recap on Kevin's experience at the long Haul, 100 this year, and we recorded that episode the day after he finished. So it was very real, very raw. I know I keep saying that phrase, but that's truly the best way to describe it, and I had a lot of people reach out and express how much they appreciated that episode and how real you were in. Expressing everything that happened with the race and your disappointment and just being very real about it all. yeah, I don't really remember recording the episode. Did you ever go back and listen to it? Not yet, no. I plan on going back and listening to it because I literally, I don't remember. What I even said on the episode. Yeah. Like it was one of those of Hey, let's just put this out there. you said it sounded good, yeah, I haven't gone back to listen to it yet either. And this is one of those episodes that I do want to go back and listen to because trans full transparency normally. I don't listen to our episodes and I know you don't really either you listen to the ones that you're not on. I listen to the interviews that you do with other people. Yeah, and I'm on all of them, so I don't usually listen. It's funny because I've got other friends that do podcasts and they're like, yeah, I listen to every single episode of mine and it's just not something that I do normally. I have, gone back and listened in the past, but this is definitely one that I would. Want to and plan to go back and listen to. I just haven't had a chance this week because it's been a little nutty around here. It's been a lot of a week. Yeah. I'm literally, I'm still trying to get through recovery from that race. Yeah. mentally, physically, and I haven't not run a step yet. Yeah. So why don't we actually, yeah, like, why don't we just give him a little sneak peek of in real time how you were recovering from this race one week afterwards, and what you're actually doing. Trying to sleep and eat as much as I can. Yeah. which is funny because I haven't run yet. And so a lot of people are like, if you're not, if you're not training, if you're not racing, if you're not putting in the running, why are you still eating? And there was a fairly recent study that came out that suggests that if you're running that far, that your metabolism's still working in like super overdrive. For a full week afterwards. Yeah. so I'm still doing that. At least, it's possible even longer, right? Because it really does take your body about, about a month to fully recover, three to four weeks to fully repair all the damage that was done, especially in something that long and grueling, like what you experienced last weekend. And fuel is what? Gives your body the necessary elements that it needs to repair itself. like this is the thing that so many people don't understand. They just think that food is fuel, and few food is energy and I'm not really doing as much. Physical activity. Right now, I'm not doing as much exercise, so I don't need as much fuel, but your body's still repairing and it needs the building supplies to help rebuild your body back to at least as strong as it was when you started, hopefully a little bit stronger. Yeah. that's why so many people fall behind on calories, not on the day of their long run, but on the day after. Like especially if they take a recovery day on the day after their long run, they don't. Eat that much, but you still need it. So I have an absurd long run. So it takes, it's a solid, the study that, that they did showed that you were still burning twice your normal rate seven days later. And then it starts falling after that. Yeah. But they were still, they were showing it double the burn for a seven days. That's a lot of food. Yes. So how do you feel like you've been doing with that? eating more better on some days than others. like I, I think I was pretty strong off the bat. Yeah. and there was a day in the middle of it that I'm like, I did not eat enough food on that day. But in general, I think I've done pretty well. So are you on your road to getting jacked now? my feet are functional that I think I can actually be on the road now to getting jacked. I've not, you could probably start lifting though. I could definitely start lifting. Yeah. I probably could have started lifting already. You, no, I. I disagree with that statement because you don't wanna be like breaking your muscles down right now because they're still repairing themselves. But you could definitely start doing some movement and mobility. Yeah. To get your body ready to do some strength training. Yes, I could. If you were, if we were together over the weekend, then I would've asked you what are productive things that I could do in the gym? And you would've given me mobility. A hundred percent. The answer is definitely mobility. The doctor would've given me a workout. It would've been great. Yeah. For anyone that is recovering or you maybe have a race coming up and you wanna know, what should I be doing after this goal, long, hard race that I'm about to do? The answer is move your body as much as you can. yes, you need to sleep. Yes, you need to eat a lot, but also move without working out. This is where I think the distinction is just getting in movement, like walking mobility. Gentle movement for your body is a great idea after something like this. All right, so today's topic is faith over fear, and I feel like this is very applicable to your race and the things that you went through. Last weekend. I also think it's one of these things that I know I am feeling and want to address. And believe me, this is not going to be a political podcast. I do not talk about politics or do politics. I dunno what that means really. I don't do politics, but I do politics. I wouldn't consider myself a political person. Obviously the state of the world matters, and what's happening is definitely affecting me and the collective as a whole. And if you feel a heaviness and. Confusion and overwhelm and just sadness. I think that's what so many of us in the collective are experiencing right now. And there's a lot of fear. there's fear in the world. There's fear in the United States and what we're seeing on TV and on social media and some of the videos that are happening and some of the things that are happening in this country and in other areas around the world. And there's things that are happening all the time. I know. and it's also. There's a lot of fear based marketing in social media and people, most of it, yeah. People are always pointing out all the ways you're doing it wrong, and I think this is just overall leading to huge amounts of information, overwhelm and anxiety and uncertainty, and just all sorts of fear and. You might not identify it as fear, but that's what is happening to a lot of us right now. because the fear-based marketing. you're like, oh, I'm not scared of the marketing. But literally it's fomo. It is fear of missing out, right? Or fear that you're doing the wrong thing, or that you're not doing the right thing, or that there's a better training plan for you, or a better supplement for you, or all these other things that you need to be spending tons of money and time on. Because they wanna sell you something, right? You mention a certain topic around your phone'cause it's listening to you and it'll start time. excellent. Spooky voice. it will start giving you ads about that thing, giving you two completely different answers to that solution. Yeah. How are you supposed to know which one it is? Because both of them are saying if you do it the other way, they're not saying theirs is necessarily best. They're saying the other way is wrong is usually how a lot of the marketing goes. That's designed to make you feel this uncertainty and then you're clinging for whatever the safety is. Yeah, because fear is actually a human response to uncertainty, and unfortunately life is uncertain most of the time. There are most things in our life. I don't think we can approach with 100% certainty, and I think that's even more true nowadays with the culture that we live in. And so this episode is not about. Pretending that this doesn't exist. It's not about telling you that, just faith over fear. like just you can do it just muscle your way through. It's about choosing how to respond to it, because faith isn't the absence of fear. It's the choice that we make when fear shows up to me, you can't really have faith unless fear is present. In a way, they're Two sides of the same coin. Yeah. You have to have, if there's not something to be fearful of, then there's no necessary, there's no really a need for the faith. The same thing with courage. Yes. You can't have courage in the absence of fear. Yeah. you're not so brave. I'm not brave to brush my teeth. I'm not afraid of that. So brave of you. Proud. oh, I'm gonna go to bed tonight. that's not a fearful thing. Like there, I know for a fact there's not a monster under my bed. Like I, I actually have pretty good certainty in that one'cause I check every night. and so I feel good about that. But when I was little, going to bed meant that I had to come in my room and then leap from four feet away.'cause I wasn't sure. So then, going to bed required some courage. Yeah. Do you think that faith is the opposite of fear or faith is the opposite of uncertainty? Or is it somehow both. I think it's definitely uncertainty. It's not the it's what you just said. Faith is not, it's not the opposite.'cause it's not a lack of fear. So it's not the opposite. It's faith is what is one of the options that we can choose. Yeah. Because it's not the only option that when fear shows up, there's a lot of responses we can have. Faith is just one of the more positive ones that we can take. Yeah. So let's talk about the ways that fear shows up. Maybe some of those tricky ways that. Aren't just feeling afraid because we know we all can probably recognize when we feel afraid or when we feel scared and name that as fear, but fear most of the time I would argue, shows up in other ways. One of the main ways that I think it shows up for me, and probably a lot of you out there, because I feel like we runners have very similar personalities, is overthinking and over analyzing. We. Are afraid that we're not gonna get the results that we want, so let's just go ahead and tie it right to running. you're not, you are worried that you're not gonna get the results you want, and so you overthink it. You try to find the perfect training plan. You are scrolling, you're researching, you're doing all sorts of overanalyzing. You are overanalyzing and how you feel on all of your runs. You're wondering if your strength exercises are the best, so you spend hours looking. Up things on YouTube or on Google and all of these different things, or you're afraid of getting injured and so you're looking up. As soon as that pain hits or you're starting to feel a little achy or a little niggle, you're on Dr. Google trying to figure out how to diagnose whatever's going on and find exactly how to treat it before it turns into an injury. So there's a lot of overthinking and overanalyzing. All of those things, I think, mask. That fear and the uncertainty. So it's like fear of the unknown. Yeah. It's trying to feel like you are getting something done. You've got a good one on here of control disguise this productivity. if you're looking for the perfect training plan you could spend, you. Hours. And never actually tie up your shoes. Like still just searching for what the training plan is. Yeah. Like the more precise you think your pace needs to be on that run. Yeah. The more you're like, oh no, that's just giving me control over it, then I know I'm doing it right. No, your body has no idea. What the difference is between running an eight minute mile and running like an 8 0 5. There is no difference between these things. They're all the exact same pace. it's not that they're at the exact same pace, but it's that your body doesn't really. Need that level of detail to improve, especially the majority of us that are running at the level that we're running at. Unless you are a professional elite runner that's trying to squeeze out the last 1%, those tiny details don't matter. And that's another way that we overthink and overanalyze, I think too, is that we're so concerned about some of the tiny, small details and we're forgetting some of the really big. Rocks and stones that we need to be paying more attention to. Even when you squeeze down to the tiny details, like we just, we don't have the control over it. Yeah. People be like, oh no. if you have a continuous lactate tester, then you'll know exactly when you're going too fast and above a threshold. I've seen lactate threshold graphs. There is so much of an art to it of oh, no. You can see that it flattens off here. I'm like, all those dots are still pointing upwards. Is a lot of interpretation involved. and that's some of the downside I think of all the information that we have nowadays too, is it gives us this. Farce of control. What? What's the word I'm looking for? No, that's exactly what you're looking for. it's not farce though illusion. That's the word I'm looking for. I know, but farce is possibly better. Yeah. Because it's almost comical how we really feel like we're in control. Because we have all of these measurables. And, but so many people don't even know what to do with them. Like we have all of these numbers that our watch or the ring or all these different devices wanna give us and. Really, one of the best things that you can do is say, how do I feel right now? No, a hundred percent. If I don't know what my HRV was last night, then how am I supposed to know if I feel tired or not? But that's the thing is that it, these things totally disconnect us from ourselves and I think that's really just, if we wanna expand it out and zoom out, that's what's happening. Like in so many areas of our life as well. And this is really where our nervous system comes into play. And I really wanna talk about this because this is something that a lot of people don't realize is controlling a lot of how they feel in their everyday life, but also in their running. And also guys. your running is just part of your everyday life. So it's not like we can keep these two things separate. They're not two separate silos. So all the stress that you're feeling because of what's going on in the world, what's going on in your work life, or maybe your personal life or your kids' lives, or like all of these different areas of stress, I like to think of it as a bucket. Like all of that stress goes into the same bucket. And your nervous system doesn't know the difference between different types of stress, whether it's physical stress, like really hard training sessions, whether it's a lack of sleep or financial stress or personal stress. There's all sorts of things that, but it all goes into the same bucket. And when our stress system or our sympathetic nervous system is activated. You guys might have heard, of fight or flight, and that's your sympathetic activation, but there's also a third response. It's fight, flight or freeze, and that's what happens to your body and to your nervous system when. You are become overstressed, overstimulated, overwhelmed. Your body doesn't really know what to do. So it's fight, flight, and really, I think the most common one. This is why it's so wild to me that we don't talk about freeze as much because I do think that it is the most common way that we respond. When we're overstressed, we just shut down. We don't know what to do. So like our brain and our body just shuts down. I think that it's less talked about because this absurdly high level of constant stress Yeah. Is not normal. Like the whole idea of fight or flight came from there was a stressor and this was like a lion. Like a lion. And then there was your immediate response to that. Oh, this is an immediate thing that I see. Yeah. What do I immediately do to it? Do I raise up against it or do I run away from it? Freezing. Is a terrible response to most if the lion showed up. You have to choose. Am I, do I think I have a chance against it or should I run away? Freezing is going to be a terrible option. But isn't there like a bear though that you are supposed to freeze? Yes. There's like a type of bear. Yes. I dunno if it's a grizzly bear. It's not a polar bear. No, it's not a polar bear. There's a polar bear. It's, they look so cute, but they're like the most aggressive. No, they're like 12 feet tall. Yeah. And they've got, they got claws like wolverine. no, it's wild. You see a polar bear, you're already dead. It's, that's what you got. But I do what you say there because I think it is true, and I don't know if you guys have ever really thought of it this way, because. It's, stress used to be okay, it's stress, and now I re I recover from that stress. Yes. and that's how our nervous system is set up to operate. That's what it's supposed to do. That's what we're supposed to be doing. Like stress is normal. It's a part of life. It's good for us. That's why we do it to ourselves with running and exercise. Those are all. Physical stresses that we are intentionally placing on our body. It's good to stress the system. This is how our body adapts. This is what we want. Stress lifting heavy things, doing hard things like that's how we grow and we by continuously challenging ourselves, but that. Sympathetic, that challenge, that stress needs to also be balanced with enough rest and recovery and downtime to let our nervous system switch over into parasympathetic mode and with everything that's going on and how these devices are right here in our hands all the time, giving us notifications of horrific things happening in the world or of people needing us and need or needing a response right now. Like even some of the studies that have been done on. People that work from home or, just the fact that we have computers and phones with us all the time, and they feel like no matter what time of day it is, they need to be responding to work emails or texts or, things like that because they've got the devices with them. So just that alone, you're just on call all the time. You never actually give. Like actually have downtime. And that's not how our nervous systems were designed. No, you used to actually like there, there's homeostasis. There's a middle level where you feel like you're fine, you're in control. And then there would be a stress that sort of pushes you, like above the line, you would respond to it and then your hormones would all kick in and it would bring you back down towards baseline. Yeah. And then it would help you over recover that you felt even like relaxed from baseline. You were under baseline. We don't ever get to that. Like our baseline is just elevated. We're like, no. This is just how I feel. no, it's not. That's higher than you should be at all times. Like the whole idea of high strung is because we've literally taken our baseline where we should be at and lifted it. Yeah. So we are up higher at all times. Yeah. So maybe it's overthinking, maybe it's overanalyzing, maybe it's waiting for the perfect. Plan or Googling trying to find the perfect plan. Maybe it's that control that you're trying to extend, or it could be the opposite where you shut down where you're just doom scrolling all the time or you feel, God, I just wish I could have more motivation. I need motivation, and this is one of the biggest lies I think that. We tell ourselves and that we are told as well. There's so many people out there that I talk to that think they need motivation, when in reality they just need more nervous system support because the reason they don't feel motivated or can't get themselves out the door can't actually take the actions that they want to take. They want to run, they wanna work out, they wanna strength train, they wanna be healthy, they want to eat. More nutritious foods. They want to do the things, they know what they should be doing. They just can't get themselves to do it. Most of the time, that's not a lack of motivation, and it's not a laziness either. It's nervous system overwhelm, it's complete overload, and so you're just shutting down and you just go back to the comfort zone where, you know, I just can't take one more challenge. I can't do one more hard thing because my nervous system is already. Overloaded. And any change from what you're currently doing, your body sees as a new challenge, right? Whatever. It's, and a threat. And we're all like, but just start really small. Make it as small of a step as possible. Maybe just have a little bit more protein during the day. Don't even go out for a run. Just add 10 minutes of walking during the day, Pick a smaller starting point, but if you've reached the point of paralysis, it doesn't really matter what that starting point is. You're like, that's new. That's different. I'm not doing it. Yeah. I'm not getting, I'm not leaving. My comfort zone. I'm here and. yes. Part of it is just figuring out what that smallest step is. Yeah. That you can feel like, okay, that's not that frightening To me, that doesn't feel like it's that far away from where I currently am. and it's not that it feels frightening either, right? and I wanna make sure that I address that because most of the time people aren't like, oh, I'm scared to do that. It's just that I just can't. Yes. it's, I just don't have the energy. I don't have the bandwidth for it. Yes. I can't even get my shoes on, and they don't know why they can't do it, because it's not scary to put your shoes on. But it is, it's technically, it's fear. it's fear. It's your nervous system. It's fear masquerading as other things. Exactly. it's your nervous system saying, Uhuh, I can't take one more thing. Not a chance. We're not doing it. I'm just done. Which is the wildest thing because oftentimes getting out the door and moving your body is actually going to help you. And we know this also, right? it's not like we're dumb that is the tragedy. You all are not dumb people. you know this thing, you know how you feel after you exercise and you want that. Sometimes your nervous system is just Uhuh, not today, and then not tomorrow, and then not the next day. And then it becomes this whole cycle. And then you do become afraid, right? Then you're like, oh God, shoot, I don't wanna get gain weight. Oh no, I'm gonna slow down. I'm not gonna be enough. This is gonna be so hard. And then maybe you do start to feel afraid'cause you're like, oh, I just know it, it's been so long since I've been out there. It's gonna hurt a lot and when you, for me to get back into this, when you first start, it's not gonna feel great. Yeah. Like when you first start running, it doesn't feel good the first few times it takes a week or two to start feeling okay on your runs. Do you feel that way after recovering from this or have you in the past, like when you. Took this downtime after these long races, were you afraid of what it would feel like? Oh yeah. Getting back out there? Yes. Yeah. I would like to go run right now. Yeah. But I'm also a little nervous how that's going to feel. Exactly. yeah. Maybe it's not afraid, but I'm like a little nervous. Like I don't really want it to hurt that much. Yeah. But what is nervous? That's just like a prettier word for afraid, right? But I want, I don't wanna say afraid, but I want you to say that though, because again, these are the ways that our brain lies to us and that we lie to ourselves and we don't. Recognize it as fear. You're like, oh, I'm not afraid of it. I'm just a little nervous, just a little nervous about it. Or I'm just like not looking forward to it. Sure. That's another way I actually kinda am looking forward to it. Yeah. Even though I am a little nervous about it. I also don't wanna wake up super early'cause it's gonna be cold tomorrow morning. Florida cold, but still cold. How cold is it gonna be? I don't know, like 40 upper forties. Oh, I'm running tomorrow. It's gonna be cold. It is. Oh goodness. So let's talk about faith over fear then, right? Because now we've talked about some of the tricky ways that fear likes disguise ourselves itself. And you know that we are experiencing this too. And some of this discussion was a little bit around people that are getting back into it. But I want you to. Hear and make sure that you understand that this is something that we're all going through at some level to some degree. And maybe it's not, oh, I'm afraid to get back out there. Maybe you're not someone that struggles with consistency. I know that I don't struggle with consistency at all. I'm a very consistent person. But fear for me shows up in other ways, of not being I think one of the big ways that a lot of runners, fear shows up for us is fear of getting hurt. Like wanting, not wanting to overdo it. And make, and then lose out on that consistency. So then essentially fear creates you, training in an overly cautious state. It can, not for me, but that's the idea. if you train Yeah. In a manner that you won't get hurt, You're essentially always gonna make sure that you are under underdoing it. Yeah. But you're training with one foot on the brake. Yeah. there, because there's something positive to, to never pushing yourself like. To the brink. Day upon day. that's not a, that's not a good idea. But even on like hard workouts, there's something to be said for leaving an extra rep in reserve. Yeah. Leaving two extra reps in reserve. But if you never really push yourself, if every day you're extra cautious and thinking about, I don't want to, I need to pull back.'cause I don't want to get hurt. Yeah. That's never a good way to train. Also, like that's the setup to this guy is if you're skiing down a hill, the last thing that you should do is think about avoiding the trees. You never think about avoiding the trees because the first thing you're gonna do is hit a tree. Yeah. Nobody wants to do that. Like you don't want to think about avoiding the injury. Yeah. For me, fear shows up as not signing up for races. Ooh. It's been a while. It's, it has been a while. I did the 5K. Okay. Christmas 5K. and I am planning on signing up for races this year, but I think that's one way that I protect my ego because I'm afraid of putting in the work and then. Not getting the results that I want. If so, I guess it's that fear of disappointment that sometimes shows up for me because I also think that it depends on how often we're flexing that muscle and how many areas of our life as well. And so for me, I'm flexing that. Muscle of like disappointment, like overcoming disappointment in other areas. And so there's some areas where I'm just like, Nope, I don't want it there. I, that, that area just needs to be like my consistent, steady, we're good to go there. Yeah. So it's like you're avoiding the. Potential negatives of running a race. Because you have enough areas where you're stepping outside the comfort zone, where where the comfort zone is definitely getting challenged and there's definitely failures happening. And then I pick myself up and we keep going and that's what happens. And so I think that's also something that we modulate without. Even realizing it sometimes. Oh, okay. So people have asked me, I, I was just asked again today About my race last week. Yeah. And they were like, the person asked with great intention, did you win? and I said, no. And she goes, did you get second? I said, no, I got 11th. She goes, oh. But did you finish it? that's good, like you then like immediately backpedaled, like all the way to Yeah. you did cross the finish line and it's okay. Yes. And this is very much not a runner. She's very sweet and was just like asking, genuinely thought I'm super human and therefore, did you win? Was it made, it was a logical question for her. because you always win the 5K, so they just assume that you win races. Yes. Like you're a runner that wins. Yes. And that it doesn't matter what length of the race, which is bonkers to me, which is adorable. And so what I've tried to come around with and what, people are like, oh, you should be really proud of yourself, and all these various things. I'm like. I am and what I'm most disappointed about the race is that I started getting nervous about what the clock was gonna say at the end. Yeah. Instead of just enjoying the whole experience. When did you start getting nervous about that? I don't know. Eight hours into it. Okay. That's pretty soon. considering it took you 19 hours to finish, like that's pretty quick into the race to start worrying about time. I was at like Halfwayish. Yeah. when I started worrying, and that's why I don't know exactly, but somewhere around like the start of lap four. Yeah. I was like, okay, now what's going on? That's when I started actually thinking more about it's, it kind started going downhill too. But the problem is that in a race there's. There are benefits of keeping an eye on the clock. If you are in a 5K and you're aiming for certain paces, it's important to know what you hit the one mile in. If you're aiming for, to break 30 minutes, then you need to be under 10 at the one mile mark. That's an important thing. If I'm fueling. Every 40 minutes, I need to keep an eye on what that 40 minutes is. So I'm constantly checking the clock. it's useful, but then I had to tune out from what that clock actually means to me. So I have to separate myself. So one of the things that I've. Really gained from this race of a positive of let's Leave. The fear behind is I really just want to go back and run these races to have more fun to enjoy it. I went into it with such an experimentation mindset, and then I flipped over and I started racing. And I'm looking at it now of that's still a big experiment. What I learned is I can't run these races as though it's a race. That was not a good choice. As soon as my mind went that direction, I started moving in this running to avoid losing. And that was not a good choice. I think that's another way that fear shows up is if you enter a race to try to avoid losing rather than to try and like chase down times to see what would happen. Yeah. Like I am proud that I took it out quick. I know you think that I took it out too fast, but it was nice to see what happened. Like I wouldn't have known what happened otherwise if I didn't go that fast. Yeah, absolutely. The whole thing is an experiment as life is an experiment, we try yes. We try it one way and it. We either get the result that we want or the lessons that we need, and then we learn and we try something else the next time. I think like even if you had a strategy that worked well for you in a previous a hundred mile race, there's not guarantee that same strategy is gonna work for you again. No, a hundred percent. I've. I've watched it happen over five Ks, so I'm sure that it would happen over something that's going to take hour. Upon hour. Upon hour. Yeah. Like it, the longer the race, the more possible things can show up. The longer the training cycle, the more possible things can show up. That's why you have to enjoy the cycle. You have to enjoy, which is what you love to do. You enjoy the consistency of the training. Like it's something that gives you, like a backstop that you're like, this is what I do. on a regular basis. Yeah, but that's also like my safe zone, right? Like what I was talking about before with my hesitation to sign up for races because of that fear of disappointment. I'm good with, like my training, I have no problem with there, but that consistency is my safe zone. And so sometimes that fear can limit you because I would like to know that I'm gonna train and do well in this race. And obviously there's no such thing, like there's no certainty when it comes to racing. And if we're leaning more into that fear, our brain goes to what if this goes wrong? Versus faith in this situation would go into, okay, what's the next right step? And I think that you actually did, I think it, it's funny like listening to you talk about the race, because I really think that you were somewhere in between faith and fear and probably oscillating back and forth throughout the course of the race as well. It was a lot of oscillations. Yeah. Because. I think that you did demonstrate faith by going for it and be like, you know what, I'm gonna race. But maybe that could also have that element of fear in it too. Like I'm trying to put it together right now in real time in my head. but I think that faith, you just went for it and you were like, all right, let's see what happens. I'm feeling really good. I'm in first place. What if I actually went for this? And You trusted that your body could handle that, and I think that says a lot for you and your confidence as a runner too. Yeah, it's a tricky area because there's some people that I've seen that take races out objectively way too fast. Yeah. And I don't know what too fast is for a hundred mile race. that's the issue. you haven't done it enough. Exactly. Yeah. I've run a lot of five Ks. I've coached people that have run a lot of five Ks. Like in the cross country team over the years. I know these ones. So if someone's capable of running like 20 minutes and they take it out at five flat, that's not faith that things are gonna play out well. That's actually I'm actually gonna set myself up and be like, look, coach, I took it out. I was aggressive, but they're gonna blow up. Yeah. It's almost like not studying for a test and then being like, I didn't do very well. of course you do. you didn't put in the work. The same thing happens in running. If you go over the board, like if you don't put in the training, you're like, I don't know. The race didn't go well for me. We didn't put in the work. But if you go so far over the top. It's gonna blow up. And you're almost like choosing the path that is clearly this is not gonna go well. It'd be like if I entered the Ultra and just decided I'm gonna try and fast to this one, just no calories the whole time. Oh, that's a very bad idea. And so in that way, going out fast would be. Fear, like the demonstration of fear. Yeah. Whereas the demonstration of faith would actually be holding yourself back and trusting the process and trusting the race strategy that you've either worked out ahead of time or that you have worked out with your coach. Yeah, and you saw me after that first loop. I looked like I was jogging into you. I was in first. I think we shocked both of, I think we were both a little surprised at that, but I was trotting into you. yeah. I know. It wasn't like you were out there pushing, but you did flip that over into. A plan that you hadn't planned on before? yes. It's nice to have all the plans in place. That I think is another key. So that's a good way that it can show up in race situations, but what does it actually look like in our daily life? And I think that obviously we're gonna talk about this in training, in regards to training, but also in our regular daily life as well. Because there's a lot of fear in the world right now. There's a lot of uncertainty in the world. Because of a lot of different situations that are going on both here in the US and abroad. And I know that there is this, I can sense this, like this fear in the collective, this very, this heaviness not just with myself, but with a lot of people that I'm connected to. And I think that can expand out to, a lot of people in the world. And so what does faith over fear look like? So fear, like we already talked about, looks like overthinking, overanalyzing doom, scrolling. Just saying frozen, not doing anything. Faith looks like showing up anyway and taking imperfect action. Choosing that consistency over intensity because you trust the process when it comes to your training. It's listening to your body and honoring your body instead of forcing things because that's definitely something that we do all the time as runners as well, is we think that we need to just push through and muscle through and that. By taking a step back that's going to set us back and. A lot of times, taking a step back can actually help us move forward because we're trusting the process and we're zooming out and having faith that this is the right way to go. Yeah. If you look at your training plan over the course of 52 weeks, taking two days off because your knee's starting to bother you does not look like a bad issue. If you're only looking at. One week at a time, taking two days off, you're like, oh my goodness, I've lost so much. yeah, sure. Two outta seven seems like a lot, but two out of the, 365 no longer looks like that much. Yeah. There's an interesting point that you had in there where you said, taking imperfect action. Yeah. We just talked about. Instead of being frozen, taking the next right step. Sometimes that next right step is unclear. Sometimes you don't know what the right step is. So you just have to take a step. Yeah. And it, as long as you're not purposely taking a poor step As long as you have some reasoning behind it, you think that this could be a good step, it might be the right step. Yeah. I think that's where the imperfect action comes in. I agree. It might be right, it might be wrong. But it, there's a wise reasoning to it, and you like your reason for it. Yes. I like that too. As well. And again, that goes back to trusting yourself and having faith that you do know what's best for yourself. And I think that is very hard for a lot of people. I know there's a lot of people that come into our coaching program that haven't. Developed that trust with themselves, and they are constantly overanalyzing, overthinking, questioning things, and they've never learned to actually trust themselves and trust their decisions. And I truly believe that we all like you know what's best for your body, Kevin. You know what's best for your body. I know what's best for my body. We've just been taught to disconnect from our body, so it's really that matter. Of reconnecting to our bodies, reconnecting to ourselves, reconnecting to the identity that we want to have right now at this point in the journey of our lives, and then letting that lead our actions. That really goes back to. our discussions on identity, who are you? Who do you want to be? And knowing that is a choice every single day, and those actions that you take should come out of that identity that you either believe that you are or that you want to embody. I. I think that finding your identity of what that actually is sometimes where you have to really tune into your body, establish what that identity is important. Even if you have a few key values that you like to hold onto. Yeah, like one of the things I really like to hold onto is fun and joy. That's part of why this race As I reach the finish line, I'm like, I didn't have fun for the last several hours out here. that's tricky because that means a lot to me. that's one of my key things. Yeah. And it's tough when the situation that you're in doesn't feel very closely connected to whatever that ideal is. You can still bring it, I was not having a good time out there, but I could have just flipped it like. It's really up to me to be like, is this gonna be fun or not? Yeah. When I'm going through aid stations, the music is going and the lights are going. I could have had a lot more fun there. I just, I chose not to, I disconnected from my identity. And became, I'm just gonna ground, just grind through it. And that separated me from me, which I think then made the race not feel as good. So how do you think that connects to faith over fear? I think I was trying to abandon my own identity and I think that is consciously. No. Yeah, no, not at all. I don't like that identity anymore. I choose against this identity right now. Like I don't think that's how it works. But I think that there was a, there was. But did you realize that you were being grumpy and that you weren't having fun and you weren't choosing joy? I knew I was being grumpy. And. I didn't as dumb as this sounds, as I was being grumpy, I didn't then disconnect from You've lost the fun. You've lost the joy. Yeah. Because every once in a while, I was, I would run with people, I would chat with them every once in a while, but if I was solo, I would quickly regress back into grumpiness. And that's not helping me. No, it's not. And it, but it's funny though, because sometimes we do choose the grumpiness. Like I know that I've chosen that in situations before. Even though I consider myself a joyful person, an open person, there are definitely times where I'm just not in the mood and I do choose to just be. Petty or grumpy, or I choose the pettiness, right? Like sometimes we do choose that and it's not some, that's not, I wouldn't put that as part of my identity, but it is a choice even when we're not acting that way. I'm not really sure how all that connects to faith over fear, but. But it's, it's, it does connect to identity. It definitely connects to identity. Yeah. Because sometimes we consciously choose the path that is not us. And then as you're heading down that path further and farther, you feel di more and more disconnected from who you are. Yeah. Oh, I've got actually a good real life example of this because I think that for me. Parenting would be like a really good example of this. And a lot of times throughout the last 16 years that we've been, 16 plus years that we've been parents, that we've had to choose faith over fear or we have no idea what we're doing and. We think it would be so much better if they came with a handbook or some sort of manual. Yeah. But who's gonna write that manual? let's be real. I don't know who, how many people I would trust to write the manual. Very good point. So that's really what parenting is, right? Is just trying to figure it out along the way and doing your best. Because there are a lot of scary times when they're like, when they're babies and you have no idea what's going on, they can't communicate with you. They're just crying and you're like, I don't know, is something wrong? Like, how many times did I check the monitors? Kevin, is she still breathing? Did you maybe you should just go back in there and check and it's no, we have to have faith that the child is still alive and that we can go to sleep now. so like small examples like that. her chest is rising and falling, so maybe we should go to bed now. Yeah. And then. When it goes into teen, the teenage years and things get a little bit more complicated and they have a lot more to say and a lot more of a personality in their own lives, and they're trying to figure out their own identity. And my role as a parent starts to shift. It's no longer about telling them what to do or not even necessarily showing them the way, but trying to. guide them and support them almost from behind in some ways. Yeah. It's a lot of support in trying to help them build their identity. Yeah. Figure out what's, what values are super important to them. Yeah. And it'd be nice to be like, these are the values that should be super important, but because they're the ones that are important to me and you just hope that your kids are gonna take on the same things, but they're individuals that can. Believe their own things. Yeah, a hundred percent. And it's just so weird. There's, but there's so many like key values that a person can't absorb. Yeah. And a lot of them are very related. So it's you didn't put that one as your first one. But it's related to what I think. Like they're all important values. They're all key values. Yeah. But then they are like situations, especially with teenagers that you're like, okay, I should, I, they did this thing. Should I punish them? Should I let them get away with that? Because the fear that speaks up there is you. I don't want them going down the wrong path. I don't want them making the wrong decisions. Like maybe they need some sort of like punishment in order, like so that they learn this lesson. And that's not really the parent that I like to be. I don't love, I don't really like to punish my kids per se. to try to talk to them and help them figure out like. What the best decision is for them and maybe why this choice is not the best thing. but it takes a lot of faith to do that too, because I don't know what's the right decision in the moment. And then things that I've done in the past, they now are telling me that I got wrong because. They're bringing certain things up and I'm like, oh, I thought I handled that well, or I thought I did this well, and they perceived it a different way. And so now I'm like second guessing and questioning the way that I've been parenting and which I isn't really a helpful thing. Like it is in one sense where you can reevaluate what you're doing and make sure that you like your reasons and you like the way that you're running things. Okay. And I also have to have faith that like I am a good parent. I do believe that I am, and I know that I believe that my kids are good kids and they're gonna make the right decisions, and they're also going to make mistakes. And they're also going to need to learn lessons just like I did when I was younger. Yeah. if you want to go to less running, but more like general health. Yeah. Your approach towards health in a nutrition aspect Can change also. Yeah. If you just look at nutrition advice, it swings on a pendulum. Yeah. Of we need to make sure that we're eating a lot of whole grains. We wanna make sure that we're not having very many carbs and we're taking in a whole lot of protein. fat is not good for you. Fat is good for you, but it depends on the type of fat. And there's all these things, they swing back and forth. Just in our lifetime, eggs have been both the best and worst thing that you could possibly eat. and it swings back and forth continuously. So saying that you want to eat in a healthy manner does not mean that you're always gonna do the exact same thing. You're gonna try and keep up with what is the best practice of healthy eating. But also maybe not right? what you think is the best be. But I think that there's a lot of fear mongering out there too, of, especially on social media, especially when it comes to nutrition, that is going to let you know that all of these things are bad for you. Like you can find a video that water's bad for you, that tomatoes, that eggs that. O it's every single food practically. I'm sure there is some influencer or some personality on the internet that will tell you that this thing is toxic and you shouldn't be eating it. Yes. A hundred. the angle that I was going with is just because you change your mind on whether you want to eat a certain way or not, doesn't mean the way that you did it before was a terrible choice. Yeah. because we make the decisions, we make the best decisions that we can with the current information that we have, and that is really showing that you are. An individual that's willing to learn and that's willing to grow and that's willing to change their opinions. And I think that it's, I personally think it's a negative thing when people don't change their opinions, when they're just completely steadfast and they're unwilling to look at other information and to change. I see that as a limited mindset and I personally value a growth mindset, and I value when people can. Take in new information and based on that new information change what they think about certain things. I think that's actually more of a place out of faith rather than fear. Yeah. Fear clings to it. Yes. And saying, this is who I am, this is all that I can do. I can't possibly change it. Yeah. And whatever evidence is coming at them, they clinging to it because they're scared to change. Faith says, this is. This is the best practice. But if something new is presented to me and I trust the source and I believe it, I am willing to change my mind because I am going to live in the most healthful manner. Not just following people.'cause they tell me that this is bad and scary, but I. Truly believe that I need to make a different choice. Yeah.'cause new information is presented. Yeah. And I think that goes back to having faith in yourself and trusting yourself to make the best decision for you. And try to, yes, take in new information, but also block out a lot of the nonsense and the noise that is surrounding you. Okay. I think we've had a great discussion about faith and fear in different arenas, in different directions of how it can show up. Do we have actionable steps of given an uncomfortable situation given something that questions we can ask and you're big on journal but of course, but do we have something that is concrete? But of course, hey, try this tool. Yeah. I think that there. Are a couple directions that we can go to it. And one of the first ones is just noticing when we're in fear. I think that hopefully this podcast has given you other areas that you can look at and maybe you have, maybe you didn't realize that you were acting outta fear in some of these ways, like some of the overthinking, the overanalyzing, some of the other things that we talked about earlier in the episode. So the goal really is to first bring awareness, and I think that once we notice that we are. in reactive mode and stress mode. Maybe we're overwhelmed and we're starting to feel that heaviness and that, like all of the stress building up, we can just take a step and notice it first. That would be always the first steps, oh, what's going on here? I'm feeling very stressed, and we just take that moment to pause and breathe, like when we are in sympathetic. Nervous system activation, it is much harder to make decisions because your body is just in survival mode and you're in fight or flight or freeze. And so what we wanna do is we wanna help our body shift over to parasympathetic mode because in that. Nervous system state, we're gonna be much better at making better at making decisions for ourselves. So the best and easiest way to do that is by taking deep breaths. So I would say to just pause and take three to five deep breaths, maybe even one or two, and just name the fear. ask yourself, okay, what am I afraid of here? Or how is this? is this fear? Is something going on here? What's going on? Love, right? check in with yourself. What's going on here? how are we feeling right now? So instead of trying to like just fight it, push it down, push it away, ignore it, we acknowledge it and try to figure out where that feeling is coming from. Okay. So always a good move when. When you're in a situation that you feel stressed, putting just a brief bit of time between when the stress hits and then you respond to it breath so that you have a chance to actually respond. And not just initially react.'cause that react is very often coming from fear. Whereas a response, you take a breath, you pause, you can practically respond to it. And then you can consciously decide how you want to respond for it. So then you can ask yourself, Is this decision coming from fear or faith, or what would Faith want me to do in this situation? If I trusted myself? If I trusted my partner, if I trusted God, if I trusted something, what would I. How would I react? How would I respond here? How, what is one small step that I can take without needing that certainty? And I think that will give us that next action that we talked about. And if you're really not sure what that next action is, find support. ask for support. Maybe that's through prayer. Ask God for help and or for support. Maybe you have a community, friends, family, a spouse, a best friend, coaches that can help guide you when. You really feel stuck, like you don't know how to proceed, reach out, find some resources. that's a good one when you've made it to the point of freezing. Yeah. Like you've put the pause in, but you can't unpause. That is a good time to get some support from community, from coaches, from friends, from somebody that can help you. Prayer is a great one on this one. Yeah. Prayer often is sometimes just that little moment that you need of pause. But sometimes you may need a community around you to help you unpause. Yeah. And there are some. Prayers that I think are really powerful. And one of them is actually there's two that I really love and they are just a couple of words because I don't need something very complicated and especially in those moments. So my favorite prayer is, come Holy Spirit. I knew that one was coming. Did you? it's like we're married or something. It's maybe you know me. It's like we heard the same sermon from Father Hesberg. Oh, is that where that came from? That is his favorite prayer. I love Father Hesberg. I miss him. RIP, Teddy. but yeah, come Holy Spirit, that what, that's definitely one of my favorite prayers because it's easy. I, and it's exactly what I need, especially in moments like this. If I'm feeling fear, if I'm feeling stuck or overwhelmed or stressed, I take a deep breath and I just say, come Holy Spirit, and I can even repeat that over and over again. Another really easy one would be, Jesus, I trust in you. That's the divine. What is it? The divine heart of Jesus prayer with. It's like the, the picture of Jesus? Oh, I know the picture. It's a sacred heart. The sacred heart, not the divine heart. Sacred heart. The sacred heart of Jesus. That's the sacred heart prayer. I'm with you. I didn't know there was a prayer connected to that one. It's Jesus, I trust in you. I got one attitude. That gimme the there, the point on that one. There you go. But again, that, that's going directly to faith and trust. So if you don't trust yourself and if you don't trust what's going on in the world, whether you believe in Jesus or God or something else, if Jesus doesn't resonate with you, then say, God, I trust in you, or just I trust, maybe that is enough right now as I trust that might be enough that could be enough. So I think it's important for us to understand that. fear is always gonna be here. it's going to be here today. It's going to be here tomorrow in various intensities and frequencies and durations and situations. And faith doesn't eliminate fear. It helps us know the next step to take so that we don't get stuck in fear. So ask yourself with your running your training. Everything else that's going on in your personal life or the things that are going out going on in the world, where can you choose faith this week? Where can you lean in to trust and to identity and to allowing yourself to take those small actions despite the fear that you're feeling because. A lot of times we think that we need to feel brave in order to take action, but you don't actually need to feel brave. You just need to be willing to take the next step, right? Find your identity, lean into that, and then take what seems like the most appropriate next step. That's where the faith comes. it's taking a step. Even in the moment of uncertainty. Yeah. And if you want help, we have a great group of runners and coaches over in the Real Life Runners team. You can check out that information on our website, real life runners.com/team. We would love to support you. if you couldn't tell by listening to our podcast, we don't just talk about running and training. With our athletes, we talk about all of these things as well because there's a lot of things that could be keeping you stuck that have nothing to do with what's actually going on physically in your body. Because you are, everything is connected. If you are feeling fear in some other area of your life, it's going to be very hard for you to maintain the consistency or to perform at the level that you want physically. We address all of those things with all of our clients and we give you so many tools inside of the membership. And we give, I, I am actually doing a new thing this year on our coaching calls.'cause we have a live coaching call every Tuesday where I'm doing like a little Angie's coaching corner and giving everyone like a little. Coaching speech, I dunno if it's speech, conversation, coaching, conversation and tool to focus on for the week to help them out in training and really the rest of life. So come check it out. We would love to have you as part of the team. it's a great group of people and we would love to be there for you. And as always, if this episode. Was helpful and resonated with you, please share it. Please leave us a review so that we can help more runners to choose Faith over Fear. And thanks for joining us. This has been The Real Life Runners podcast, episode number 446. Now get out there and run your life.