445: Long Haul 100 Recap - When Things Don't Go As Planned

In this episode, we share an honest recap of Kevin’s experience at the Long Haul 100. We dive into the emotional highs and lows of race day, the challenges Kevin faced along the way, and the mix of pride and disappointment that comes with tackling a 100-mile race.

We also talk about what mattered most in the buildup and during the race—strength training, mobility, fueling, mindset, and the power of having a supportive crew. Kevin reflects on the lessons learned and how this experience will shape his future training and racing.

This is a real, unfiltered look at endurance racing and the personal growth that comes from choosing hard things.

00:53 Kevin's Race Experience and Initial Reactions

01:37 Race Results and Initial Reflections

02:46 Positives and Challenges During the Race

04:06 Mental and Physical Struggles

09:13 Training Reflections and Future Plans

17:09 Crew Dynamics and Support

23:33 Lessons Learned

43:25 Jokes and Reflections on Race Position

44:17 Struggles in the Last Loop

44:48 Aid Station Experiences

46:14 Fueling and Music Challenges

47:33 Training and Family Involvement

51:30 Mindset and Mobility

53:30 Post-Race Reflections

55:46 Dark Thoughts and Perseverance

01:09:20 Silliness and Strength

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Transcript

Speaker: 0:00

Welcome back to the Real Life Runners podcast, episode number 445. Kevin just completed the long haul 100 this past weekend, and today we are doing a very raw and real recap. We haven't even fully processed this yet together, so you're just gonna hear us process it on real time, and there's definitely going to be some emotions that come up. So we're just gonna let you in on all of it. So Kevin, I'm gonna thank you in advance for being vulnerable and letting that come out,'cause I know that's not easy. So if you're ready, stay tuned. What's up, runners? Welcome back to the podcast, first of all. thank you to so many of you. Hundreds of you that were following along on our Instagram story and sending us messages all day on Saturday. The service out in the state park was absolutely terrible, but some of those messages still did get through at some point. I couldn't respond to all of them, but we definitely saw them all the next day when we got back to the hotel, or I should say, yeah, that morning, I guess when we got back to the hotel at 3:00 AM three 30. So Kevin, congratulations.

Speaker 2: 1:26

Thank you. On completing the long haul. I like that it's episode 4 45 because I'm pretty sure that's how many hours I was out there wandering through the woods.

Speaker: 1:33

That's

Speaker 2: 1:34

what it felt like. It felt like about 445 hours.

Speaker: 1:37

Yeah. So thank you to all of you for all of the love and support that you sent both during the race and after the race. Today. We are just going to get into it. Kevin and I haven't really talked much about this yet. We've done a little bit of talking since the race, but Kevin finished. We will just give you maybe the numbers first. Shall we start with that?

Speaker 2: 1:56

I think you know the numbers better than I do. Yeah. But let's be honest. You do most of the talking on these anyway, so Yeah. In I finished 11th in the race.

Speaker: 2:04

Yes. 11th place overall, which is amazing.

Speaker 2: 2:06

There's I don't know, 300 ish people that entered the race. I finished 11th. last year I finished

Speaker: 2:11

six. Six.

Speaker 2: 2:12

I ran just over 19 hours,

Speaker: 2:14

19 hours and 13 minutes.

Speaker 2: 2:16

Really long time.

Speaker: 2:18

It's a long time to be running.

Speaker 2: 2:19

I think I got lost on the last loop because every loop I came through was basically right at 16.7 like it was supposed to be, which means I was gonna be at like a hundred point, like just over when I got to the finish line and I finished at almost 102. So I think I got lost on the last loop.

Speaker: 2:37

Yeah. Maybe you weren't quite mentally all there.

Speaker 2: 2:39

It's very possible.

Speaker: 2:40

Yeah. So yes. 11th overall, 1913. He did amazing. And I'm still in awe of him and all of the other people that are in this race, and I just wanna make sure that we start with that because. This conversation is going to be a lot of the coaching conversation that we would ha that we're gonna have to figure out, okay, where did things not go the way that we wanted to? And what can we do? What lessons can we learn? But let's start off with some positives. How about we do that? First, let's start off with some positives. Kev, what do you, what are some of the positives that you can take away from this race?

Speaker 2: 3:16

My crew is amazing. Is, that's a good one.

Speaker: 3:20

You're so sweet.

Speaker 2: 3:21

it, I made it across the finish line. because at one point I never really had the thought, I'm going to quit. I never got back to the car and was like, yep, let's just get in the car and leave. Yeah. There were times out on the trail. That, that occurred to me. There were cots set up at one of the, at aid station two that I was like, ah, why don't I just lay down there? Maybe someone will drive me back to the car. I never made it back off of a loop and thought I'm done. I was always like, all right, I'm, I got another lap in me. and eventually I, they added up and I crossed the finish line. So that was, that was a big positive for

Speaker: 3:55

me. Yeah. I think. Anytime you can finish a hundred miles, regardless of the way that you actually get to the finish line, that in it, in and of itself is a win.

Speaker 2: 4:06

Yeah. you said I should write down some thoughts and the first thing I wrote down is it was going so smooth for 40 miles and then it got so very hard for 60. And I, I don't think that's the ratio that you're aiming for.

Speaker: 4:20

No.

Speaker 2: 4:20

Like it's, it was, it got really hard and there were some ups in those 60 miles, but in general, I'd say those were 60 really hard fought miles that I went through.

Speaker: 4:33

So that's a win that you were able to get through 60 miles that you were essentially struggling through the entire time.

Speaker 2: 4:40

Yeah. I don't remember it. I, and. I think maybe, and this is already, this is clearly going to sound, soic and coming from the patriarchy when I say it as our daughter likes to point out, but I think maybe trying to grind through a hundred miles might be the closest that I can get to experiencing the pain of childbirth. So let's go with that. that's what I've got.

Speaker: 5:03

Interesting comparison, Uhhuh.

Speaker 2: 5:05

Thank you. I don't remember how much the last one hurt.

Speaker: 5:08

we should ask a woman about that. Like a woman that has been good one has done both.'cause I can't comment on that, obviously, but I think asking a woman, that would be a very interesting

Speaker 2: 5:17

Yes. Perfect

Speaker: 5:18

conversation. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:19

So anyway, my, my parallel is if you ask most women who've gone through, through labor How much it hurts.

Speaker: 5:26

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:26

Their recollection is not correct.

Speaker: 5:28

I think God does that for a reason.

Speaker 2: 5:30

Yeah. So I don't remember how much pain I was in the last one.

Speaker: 5:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:33

I could go back and listen to our like, recap episode of it.

Speaker: 5:36

Did you?

Speaker 2: 5:37

I did not.

Speaker: 5:37

Okay.

Speaker 2: 5:38

but this one, it turns south and I had more than 50% of the race left. And I knew Right then I'm like, oh, this is gonna be a day.

Speaker: 5:45

So what do you think caused it to turn south? do you have, obviously there's always multiple things that are going on, especially in that I have so many, yes. So before, I don't wanna jump into all of those yet, but what else positive can you take away from this race?

Speaker 2: 6:01

I, I made some friends with strangers out on the trail.

Speaker: 6:05

always good for you, especially

Speaker 2: 6:07

it is very, I

Speaker: 6:07

and your introvert itself.

Speaker 2: 6:08

Thank you. That's what I was going to say. I couldn't tell you any of their names because it's irrelevant.

Speaker: 6:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 6:13

Like you're just out there and everybody's

Speaker: 6:15

Did you show any of them that we had a podcast?

Speaker 2: 6:16

No.

Speaker: 6:17

Oh man. Yeah. Kevin is definitely not the marketer in the family. I

Speaker 2: 6:21

am not. yeah, no, I probably should have. I did not.

Speaker: 6:25

I'm kidding. That would be very weird.

Speaker 2: 6:27

yeah, I

Speaker: 6:27

mean, unless you just, it just naturally came up in conversation of what do you do, blah, blah, blah. who knows what kind of conversations you can have on the trails out there.

Speaker 2: 6:34

You have all sorts of conversations on the trails out there. and I did, I had conversations with all sorts of different people, people who, I was having a chat with the guy who went off and won the race, and that happened for a little while. I was having a chat with people that were trying to like, make sure they finished before the 32 hour cutoff. So I was having conversations with a wide variety of people out there. Yeah. there's parts on the course where it's designed that you're going in opposite directions as people. So even on loop one, I saw people in the race,'cause on Loop one I was leading, so I still saw people. I thought I was lost because I was going. And they were going the other direction. I'm like, this doesn't seem right, but it was. And you just, everybody's cheering for you. I'm cheering for them. so that's always a really positive experience is there's just so much cheering and good job out there.

Speaker: 7:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 7:22

It's weird as it gets dark because there's a lot less, everybody's going through it. And so if you get a good job or looking good, it comes. No one is running all that fast and yet it still comes panting. Good job. And it's weird because there's a lot of people that are walking and they're still panting as they say that. Or you say, good job and you don't get it back in response and you don't take anything from it.'cause you're like, that person's in a place. Maybe they have headphones, they didn't even hear it. Or maybe they heard it and they just, they don't have the ability to respond.

Speaker: 7:54

Yeah. But isn't that a beautiful thing? I think that when. We encourage other people, it often helps to bring us up a little bit too. So even if you're out there suffering by you saying good job to somebody else that can take your mind off your own suffering for a minute and allow you to provide a little bit of encouragement to somebody else. And I think that's such a beautiful thing.

Speaker 2: 8:14

It helped. That was one of the things that got me through many miles.'cause I try to not just do a good job.'cause there's a lot you can fit that in as you're jogging along. oh, good job. Good job. And it almost becomes so repetitive That it doesn't hit. So I was just, I was trying to tell people that they were amazing.

Speaker: 8:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 8:28

So I, if I was running, when I had the ability to be running, I'd go between people and they'd be, gimme like a good job. And I'd be like, you guys are amazing. And it often got back to a chuckle because like I had just passed'em and depending on where I was in the race, that might've meant that I was lapping them. And then I turned around and be like, you guys are amazing. And they were like, he's lapping us. What is? I'm like, no, we're all out here running a hundred miles. You're amazing. And you don't have to go run a hundred miles to be amazing, but sometimes people are going through it and they're not having a good patch of the race and they can briefly forget that. They're amazing.

Speaker: 9:05

Yeah, definitely. And I love that put that out there. That's amazing too.

Speaker 2: 9:09

it worked, it helped raise my spirits. Good. until it didn't.

Speaker: 9:12

Yeah. Alright, so let's get into this because what. Happened. there's, I know, it's funny because I've had several people ask me like, how did the race go? And I'm not quite sure how to answer it because in my mind, it's amazing and you're incredible. And to be able to finish the a hundred miles alone is incredible. Then you finish it in 11th place, you finish it in under 20 hours. All of those things, by pretty much anyone's standards are incredible except for your own, because I know that you were disappointed by this race, and this race definitely did not go the way that you were hoping or expecting it to. And that's really what I wanna get into today. Because even if you're listening to this podcast and you've never run a hundred miles, I'm guessing that there's going to be plenty. Actually, I know there's going to be plenty of things that you can take away from this episode and apply to your own running or your own at other areas of your life as well, because. Ultimately what it comes down to is Kevin had an expectation for this race and that expectation was not met. And when our expectations are not met, that's a difficult thing mentally.

Speaker 2: 10:26

Yeah, I mean we've talked about having different varieties of goals.

10:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:30

Having an a, b, and C goal so that if the a goal gets out of reach You still have something.

Speaker: 10:35

Yeah. and last week when we talked on the pre-race episode, you said you have lots of different letters and levels of goals.

Speaker 2: 10:43

And I did. I had a lot of them. and when I started, things were feeling so good. It was chilly in the morning. And I was dressed appropriately and I felt like I was really cruising and just jogging through that opening lap. And I was fueling well, my body was feeling good, my stomach was feeling good, and I was getting in the calories that I wanted to. And everything was still going good.

Speaker: 11:05

Yeah. And so that Kevin came in after 16 and a half miles.'cause our car was just before the lap mark, like just before the start and finish line. And so he came to us when he got back to the car. He was in first place at that first loop. It Then during that time that he was at our aid station, the next guy went and passed and he like actually then quote unquote took over first place. But then you caught up to him and then the two of you were like trading back and forth. When I was. Looking at the different timing checkpoints, on the first couple of loops, the two of you were trading back and forth and I was super excited for you because I know you did not expect to necessarily be up at the front of the race. But ultimately, I think that this kind of messed with you as well.

Speaker 2: 11:52

I think being in the front ultimately wrecked my day.

Speaker: 11:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:57

Because then I got into a race mentality. and then when things started going south, I would take this conversation two directions. Yeah. Like I got into a race mentality and then. My body wasn't doing what I was hoping was going to happen. And so then it went from race mentality to this is a race and I'm having a bad race. And that just put me into a mentally really bad place.

Speaker: 12:20

Right.

12:20

So

Speaker 2: 12:20

it was tough to day out of

Speaker: 12:21

going into this race.

Speaker 2: 12:24

Sure.

Speaker: 12:24

Were you ever expecting to race this?

Speaker 2: 12:27

No.

Speaker: 12:27

Yeah. So you didn't even really prepare for a race mentality?

Speaker 2: 12:31

No.

Speaker: 12:32

And then you found yourself in one, in loop one.

Speaker 2: 12:35

Right.

Speaker: 12:36

And the plan went out the window.

Speaker 2: 12:38

I tried so much to hold onto the plan,

Speaker: 12:41

but it didn't. But did you like, like genuinely Yes. what plan did you try to hold onto?

Speaker 2: 12:46

my overall pacing, making sure that I was fueling Making sure I didn't do something stupid, try to jog as I continued fuel and miss half of a gel. Like actually stop, take the conscious walking break. Yeah. To make sure that the fuel was coming in. Make sure that I'm stopping at the aid station to refill the bottle appropriately. If I needed to go to the bathroom, I would stop and go to the bathroom. yeah, I was. I was doing a good job of taking care of myself out on the trail. Okay. I was not trying to push the pace. I was like this is what I'm doing. I happen to be in front, but don't do anything dumb and be like, Ooh, let's make an aggressive move right here. no. I've got hours and hours to go. I've got dozens and dozens of miles still to go. Don't even think about what place you're in. Just make sure that you still feel very comfortable. that was the key.

Speaker: 13:35

That's, is that what you were telling yourself on the first loop or the second loop or both?

Speaker 2: 13:39

Both.

Speaker: 13:39

Okay.

Speaker 2: 13:40

Both. I was not planning on having to have that conversation. Yeah. With myself. I think that alone takes up some energy Of trying to avoid erasing mentality. I've run a lot of races. It's very easy to go into racing mentality. Yeah. And to try and tell myself, Nope, that's not where you need your head to be today. It gets a little tricky'cause it's exciting to be in front.

Speaker: 14:00

Yeah.'cause when you first came through, like you were looking good after that first loop and I was trying to take some video of you and the first thing you said to me was, let's roll. it wasn't like, hey, I was like, whatever,

Speaker 2: 14:14

at the car or'cause you were off on the path.

Speaker: 14:16

I was on the path and I just had to cross over to the call the car. But it was like, oh, okay, let's roll. this was what you were, I could tell. Even after that first loop that you are like mentally, like you were good, but it was different. Like it was definitely a more of a, and in race's past, and granted this is only your fourth one in races past, you have never liked to spend a lot of time at the aid station. What our car, our aid station.'cause there's obviously the aid stations from the race as well. I know you don't like to spend a lot of time kind of getting things going because you like to just get back off out on the course, but it was just like, okay, let's go.

Speaker 2: 14:58

so part of my issue of spending too much time, and this is something that we're gonna have to practice moving forward Yeah. Is the longer I am not jogging, running the tighter my body gets. And part of that is a strength and mobility issue that we can talk about. recording or not. Yeah. But that's a big part of it because if you go back to my, the first ultra, anytime I would sit trying to get up out of the chair was like, okay, my legs don't even function anymore. And so then it was like, okay, so he can't sit, let's just perch him on the back, like ledge of the car. And that was better. And so it's the more I feel like I have to stop and not be moving at all, the more I'm like, my legs are going to seize up on me. And having the thought that my legs are gonna seize up on me, then naturally makes my legs seize up on me. So that's usually it. It's not a, it's less of a racing mentality and more of this like artifact from previous races that if I stop for too long, my legs are going to backfire.

Speaker: 16:01

But your legs have backfired in every single race, and so you rushing in and out. Hasn't worked before. And so I really think that we need to get it so that you come in every time you hit the car, and obviously this is a loop race. Who knows if you're gonna do this race again in the future, or what races you're gonna sign up for and what that would even look like. And we would have to come up with those plans. But there needs to be a little bit of mobility that's done during the race to help prevent your legs from locking up and seizing up on you like that,

Speaker 2: 16:32

right?'cause that's ultimately what happens is I could keep moving. I had a good pace going for 40 even on, on the fourth lap. I know we're jumping ahead, but by the end of the fourth lap where the sun started setting and the temperature was being nice again, I got a nice little rhythm back in my run, so my legs were still moving, but then after that it just went real bad, real, and I couldn't get recovered. I couldn't make my legs do what I needed them to do.

Speaker: 17:00

Yeah. And it's okay that we're jumping around because I think we don't really have much of an outline. This is just us talking, like I mentioned, so we are gonna be jumping around. But now that you just mentioned about like 40 miles, I think now would be a good time to talk about your training, because in last week's episode we talked about your training and your prep for the race, and you told us that. Your longest run during that training was 40 miles, and we talked about how you don't go the full distance of your race and you just have to go to a certain amount and then trust the magic and how a hundred miles was so much about just continuing on and enduring. Do you think that looking back now you would do your training a little bit differently? Do you think that you would max out higher than 40? Do you think 40 was still a good place for you? what are your thoughts on that? Have you had any time to think about that

Speaker 2: 17:51

in terms of single long run, I don't think that I would really go more than 40. I, I, even with the results staring me in the face, I think that's still roughly where I would be.

Speaker: 18:01

Do you think that your longest, long run of 40 had anything to do with how long into the race it felt like, before you things started to go south?

Speaker 2: 18:12

more mentally than physically.

Speaker: 18:14

Okay.

Speaker 2: 18:14

Because. O once I, I hit that spot around 40, literally, I'm just running along and then I was like, it might be nice to, because I needed a gel at that point. And so I stopped and was taking a little walking break to take down a gel, and I just didn't feel like starting up again. And all the times before it was like, all right, take the little gel, catch your breath, relax your shoulders, and now, get jogging again. Yeah. And on this one I was just like, I just wanna keep on walking. And so I think it was a lot.

Speaker: 18:43

So this was in the third loop somewhere? In the third loop?

Speaker 2: 18:45

Yes.

Speaker: 18:46

After the second loop was around like 33 miles when you hit us, and then somewhere in the third loop.

Speaker 2: 18:51

Oh, I know right where it was. it was between group camp and the time you hit eight station one the second time.

Speaker: 18:57

Okay.

Speaker 2: 18:57

yeah, they, you're just generically in the middle of woods, but I know where, exactly where it was. And, Mentally, it's like, all right, this is the furthest that did in training. And so there is definitely something about being able to look at your watch and, you hear it in the marathon, it's the 20 mile wall. Part of that is that wall is not as much physical as is, as it is mental.

Speaker: 19:15

Sure.

Speaker 2: 19:16

And we talked about this on the last one. Yeah. Is I was able to finish the race. Like I had done the work physically Yeah. That I could cover a hundred miles. Like I, I did. Yeah. And if you,

Speaker: 19:28

and you did.

Speaker 2: 19:29

Yes.

Speaker: 19:29

You actually did that.

Speaker 2: 19:30

I did. I have the belt buckle to show for it. I didn't cover it as fast as I wanted. I didn't feel the way that I wanted during it. but a hundred miles is really hard. I don't think that anybody runs on this particular thing. I don't think anybody was hitting their fifth loop. And so their sixth loop being like, man, everything is still feeling awesome,

Speaker: 19:45

right? Yeah. That, I don't think that's a thought.

Speaker 2: 19:48

there were a couple people who passed me inside of the last mile. They had enough left that when it was inside the last mile, they had something left in their legs.

Speaker: 19:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:58

I think that they had been doing a good amount of walking also. But when it was the last mile, they were like, yes, we are doing this. Yeah. The one guy was literally like war cries out there, who's like he's, I'm like, okay. he's going Good on you buddy. Last year there was a guy that passed me with five miles to go and I tried to hang on this year. This dude went past me and I was like, yeah, that's awesome. I'm gonna keep walking. Like I just, I had absolutely nothing left in my legs. Yeah. but I did physically cover the a hundred miles and if you don't look at the splits, if you don't look at like how fast I ran the first lap versus the sixth lap Or the third one versus the fifth one. if you don't look at the numbers, you just look at the finishing time. And the finishing place, it looks like a successful a hundred miler.

Speaker: 20:41

Right.

Speaker 2: 20:41

it looks like my training managed to put me in a place to do things that a lot of people can't. and so that's great. I think when a lot of people probably don't have what a hundred miles comes up with the number that a lot of people put on it is 24 hours. People work for years to try to break 24 hours for their a hundred. And I ran like 19 10, 19

Speaker: 21:03

13.

Speaker 2: 21:03

There you go. but that wasn't what I wanted to, and you say did, was the training enough? The training was enough to run a pretty good a hundred miles. Time-wise. The training was not enough for the goals that I had.

Speaker: 21:20

Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. Essentially, it was a mismatch of the training and the goals because you clearly did it and you finished the a hundred miles and you did it in a very respectable time and place and all the things like you said. But if you look at your splits throughout the race, you did the first loop in a little over two hours. I wanna say it was like two 10 or something like that. I can pull it up on my phone right now,

Speaker 2: 21:46

I think around two

Speaker: 21:46

15. And the last loop you did in five hours.

Speaker 2: 21:50

Yeah. that's a big difference

Speaker: 21:53

there. Yeah. Yeah. Your first loop was lap one was two 12. And then your last loop was, let's see, 14, 20 is when you hit lap five. And then 1913 was your finished time. So almost five hours. Almost five

Speaker 2: 22:08

hours,

Speaker: 22:08

yeah. Seven minutes. Short of five hours. Yeah. 4 53

Speaker 2: 22:11

because a good amount of it was 20 minute pace walking.

Speaker: 22:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 22:15

it wasn't just it wasn't even like power walking. Like it was just like ambling through the woods.

Speaker: 22:19

Yeah. your first two laps were very. Like on 0.2 12 and then two 13 essentially were lap one and lap two.

Speaker 2: 22:28

Yeah. And it's not like I was doing that and Looking down at a heart rate that was spiking through the roof. Like I was doing that and my heart rate was staying under one 30.

Speaker: 22:36

Yeah. But then lap three was three hours and seven minutes.

Speaker 2: 22:41

Yep.

Speaker: 22:42

And then the next loop was three hours and 10 minutes.

Speaker 2: 22:47

Yep.

Speaker: 22:48

I'm literally doing math as we go here.

Speaker 2: 22:50

This is really captivating.

Speaker: 22:52

And then three hours and let's see, 18, 38 minutes.

Speaker 2: 22:59

Yeah. And so

Speaker: 23:00

three, and then four hours and 53 minutes.

Speaker 2: 23:02

So that last one, lap five, there is basically 10 minute pace. Because I know,'cause I was heading off on the last one, I'm like, all right, so if I can hold 10 minute pace, then that's three hours and 40 minutes. And then I'll be able to get in and I can still get in before midnight. Or I could say, as the day went on and the time started getting slower, it was like, okay, goal A is gone, and B, nope, B's gone. And then C is gone. And the goals just kept disappearing.

Speaker: 23:31

And how did that feel when, as the goals were disappearing? Because I know last week when we were talking about this, you said you set lots of different goals and levels of goals for a reason.

Speaker 2: 23:40

Yep.

Speaker: 23:41

But when you're in the middle of the race and you see those goals starting to slip away, what is that

Speaker 2: 23:46

Okay, so I,

Speaker: 23:47

or what was that like for you? This time?

Speaker 2: 23:50

Goal A disappearing was fine. Because that was nuts. And then Goal B disappearing was that, that's a bummer. That would've been really cool. But then they started getting back towards goals that I thought were far more based in reality. And as those started disappearing it, it got more. What

Speaker: 24:09

were some of those goals? what were some of the goals that you remember were. The hardest ones for you to let go of

Speaker 2: 24:17

the hardest one. I really thought I was gonna be able to break midnight. I thought I was gonna be able to finish on the same day as the race. And I didn't think that was gonna be that big of a stretch for me to do.

Speaker: 24:26

Okay.

Speaker 2: 24:27

And so when I started doing the math and realizing that was not gonna happen, that was tough.

Speaker: 24:32

And midnight would've been 17 hours, right?

Speaker 2: 24:34

Yeah, midnight, 17 hours. Okay. And it got to a point where I was like, okay. I think I had just started Lab five and I was like, okay, so if I can hold this pace for the next two laps I'll still be able to come in and I forget what the pace was, but I was like, I think it was like 15 minute miles. I was like, okay, 15 minute miles. And I'm looking down, I'm like, and I was doing this little like hobble jog at the time. I'm like, and I'm probably holding like maybe 12 minute miles right now. I feel like I'm moving. I'm not moving that fast, but I feel like I'm doing okay. And I looked down at my watch, I was jogging at the time and my watch said 1630. I was like, oh, okay, so maybe not. Like it was, there was a disconnect between how fast I thought I was going even on like where I was getting a jog rhythm going.

Speaker: 25:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:19

And how fast I actually was. And it's weird'cause there's. You can try and overpower a lot of your body's messages. And some of it, it's your body just trying to protect yourself. And so I go into this very closed up, very short stride shuffle. And I have a long stride when I run, you know how I run, I have a fairly long stride. And if I could overcome the fear that I was going to fall on every single step, I could stretch out my stride a little bit. But when it gets dark, then I get a little nervous that I'm gonna fall. Then I'm gonna step in a hole, step on a rock. And so then my stride shortens up and then I get shuffling and then the pace just goes sideways. Like it, it,

Speaker: 26:02

and your whole body tenses also, which is not gonna help the cramping and other issues that you were having too.

Speaker 2: 26:08

And then I didn't listen to my crew chief and put on long sleeves for the last loop. And I had to be fair, I had reasoning for it. I was hot on loop five. Like I was still physically warm on Loop five. Yeah. And at one point, I remember on Loop five and it was dark for the entirety of that loop. Like I didn't have to, it wasn't dark enough that I had to put my headlamp on until mile, like three, four, somewhere in there. But it was, the sun was down for basically that entire loop. And I kept thinking, am I still wearing a hat?'cause I feel like I'm, my head is getting so warm during this thing. And so you had asked if I wanted to put on long sleeves Or long pants or whatever, and I'm like, no, I'm warm. I, this is good.'cause it wasn't getting that cold. I don't remember what the temperature was, but it wasn't like so cold that it was gonna be like, no, I have to put on long sleeves.

Speaker: 26:57

It was in the fifties.

Speaker 2: 26:58

But then I was doing so much walking that then I was getting physically really cold. And. Then, when you're physically cold, you're just, you tense up. Yeah. And then my whole body is tensing up, which is not helping because everything was cramping on me. at that point my calves were so tight that they were cramping periodically, and then I was just carrying so much tightness because of the cold that then like my hips started getting really sore. And I'm like, what is going on there? And I'm like, oh.'cause you're just squeezing everything. Yeah. And yeah, that, that last lap was, oh my god, it was so hard.

Speaker: 27:31

Yeah. Painful.

Speaker 2: 27:33

Yes. So physically painful. And then mentally I'm watching goal after goal disappear.

Speaker: 27:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 27:40

And it was like, oh, maybe I can get 17, maybe I can get 18. And I didn't have a goal between 18 and 20, like I didn't have one. My goal is maybe I can break 18 because I didn't break 18 last time. I did. Okay. But I didn't officially break 18 last time when I finished the race last time. And he said it at the start, he goes, the race is a little bit long because it's a hundred miles through the woods, so it's a hundred ish and you watch me finish at 101 or two, but it's over a hundred. And this time, I told you I, I was right on and knew every lap was basically 16.7. I was like, I'm gonna come in just over. Last time I ran 102 miles and I did it in 1811 or something like that.

Speaker: 28:17

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:17

So I hit the a hundred mile mark under 18 on my watch. This time I was like, I think I can do it. I think I could officially break 18. And then I started doing the math and I'm like, okay, all I have to do is hold 13 minute miles for the last 10 miles. And then I looked down and I'm doing 15. okay, so now I have to hold. And I kept redoing the math like every mile. I'm like, okay, now I have to go this fast for the last 10 K. And I'm like, okay, but I'm walking at a 20 minute mile pace. I'm not doing that. And it was really hard to mentally watch all of these goals just disappear. And I can't, I don't even have time to like process. The goal is disappearing because I'm so fixated on my entire body hurts head to toe. That it's like the emotional rollercoaster of those last couple of miles, last couple of laps, last couple of miles of those last 34 miles. It was brutal.'cause there were parts where there was some joy and there was some happiness, but there was also just, there was sadness, there was anger. There was anger at my body not doing what it wanted to do, there, but then it would flip and be like, pride that I hadn't quit. And then I'd take four more steps and be like so mad that my leg was hurting. it was such a weird combination of emotions.

Speaker: 29:36

Where do you think the sadness was coming from?

Speaker 2: 29:39

Watching all the goals disappear.

Speaker: 29:40

And what about the anger?

Speaker 2: 29:41

My body not cooperating. I, like I, I have put in hours of training, I've got the little tally marks up on my classroom of how many miles I've put in since the start of school. I'm like, look at the bricks that I have stacked. Why is my body not doing what it's supposed to be doing? It's supposed to still be able to, at a minimum it should be jogging along, maybe jogging with periodic walking breaks, but it should be jogging along and it was walking with periodic shuffle breaks. Like it wasn't jogging anymore.

Speaker: 30:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:10

So anger at my body.

Speaker: 30:11

So what do you think the answer is of why that happened?

Speaker 2: 30:16

Oh, my body cannot hold the pace that I was hoping for.'cause it turns out that you can set really big goals and you can hope that they're going to magically work out. And you can put in training that sort of gets you there. And you, and as you're doing that training, you can hope that training is enough. But if you don't actually put in all of the training that you need, hope doesn't achieve the magic goals.

Speaker: 30:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:47

And there was a lot of hope that went into the training plan.

Speaker: 30:50

So what do you think the training that you didn't do that you needed, what do you think that was?

Speaker 2: 30:57

probably about 10 more pounds of muscle, quite frankly. I don't think there's a variety of things that I could suggest. Oh, I could,

Speaker: 31:05

but like right now, obviously this is the day after,'cause we are recording this on Monday. Kevin literally finished the race yesterday morning at 2:13 AM

Speaker 2: 31:16

Yeah.

Speaker: 31:16

So it's been a little over 36 or like 39 hours now since he crossed the finish line.

Speaker 2: 31:23

Yeah.

Speaker: 31:23

So these are some very raw and early thoughts. So you were saying muscle.

Speaker 2: 31:29

Yeah. I may change my mind on some things. Yeah. But my first thought is I think I literally need to just physically overhaul my body. And my reasoning behind it is there was a stretch of the trail that, when that path gets wet and trucks drive over it, it gets some like divots into it and it's literally like it's a dip in the path. It's four feet deep, four inches deep, not four feet. Like it's a smooth path that has the smallest little dip into it. Or like a rock that's climbing like three inches out of the ground. sometimes if you're running along, even in broad daylight, you step on a rock and you just move sideways and then you just keep running. I would hit one of these little dips and it would complete, I, not even at a jog, I would walk into one of these little dips and my body would go sideways and I'd have to throw my arms completely out to the side to try and balance myself.'cause I thought I was going to crash. that's not the strength that I need. If I'm gonna try and actually achieve goals that are bigger, forget the time, goals, races that I would like to complete. I'm not completing those races in

32:34

the

Speaker: 32:34

mountains.

Speaker 2: 32:35

Yeah. I'm not completing those races. Yeah. In the body that I'm currently, that I currently have. I couldn't, I was struggling to go like up a curb,'cause at the end of the race, there's a part where it goes from the trail into a little paved thing. And from the pave from the trail to the paved is maybe a two inch incline of pavement sitting there. I struggled to make that step down the final straightaway. I struggled to make this step. Forget the final straightaway. I struggle to make that step heading into loop six. Yeah. there's still a lot of miles. I can shuffle my way through. I can walk my way through flat darkness for a while through a lot of bad thoughts and stuff, but to physically go up or down mountains. I can't do it in the body that I'm currently using. Yeah. It's not gonna work.

Speaker: 33:17

Yeah. or even forget mountains, obviously western states is your ultimate goal, which is mountains, but even if the race was a little bit hillier than I, it would, I think it would've been much more difficult for you.

Speaker 2: 33:29

Yeah. this is going back a few years, but I remember. The keys 100. Which is such an absolute pancake.

Speaker: 33:36

Except for the bridges.

Speaker 2: 33:38

Except for the bridges. And I was Okay on the bridges, but there's one spot in the middle of a seven mile bridge, which is basically an entirely flat bridge. But there's an up and down right in the middle of it. Like most bridges gradually rise until it hits the midpoint and then gradually falls to the other side. The seven mile bridge is basically flat, except it has this up and down right in the middle. And I was like, I don't know who put a mountain in the middle of this thing. And it's not it's probably an incline of 20 feet, but in, because it's such a long bridge. Instead of making the thing just so gradually climb, they put this little like bump in the middle of it. I was done. that was the spot in that race that I'm like, all right, so when I get to the car on the other side, I'm just going to get in the car. Yeah. I have to quit now.

Speaker: 34:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:19

And it was both the up and the down on that thing. Because the. What's the answer? Eccentric muscle contractions that I need to do. Is it you're trying to like jog down a hill?

Speaker: 34:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:27

No, I was having none of that.

Speaker: 34:29

Yeah. it makes me happy in a way, and I know that sounds really weird, but it makes me happy to say, to hear you say and really acknowledge the importance of strength and mobility.

Speaker 2: 34:40

All right. I'm gonna make a joke. That is, is funny only because it's in the moment and our people that are listening and they're still listening to me do the recap episode almost 40 minutes in. They're gonna appreciate the humor to this. Everybody just heard that she thinks she's happy that I am in this much pain. Oh, and I had to slow down that much in the, oh, come

Speaker: 34:58

on. That's not

Speaker 2: 34:59

what I meant. she's happy that I crashed and burned in the middle of the woods. that's what actually just happened here.

Speaker: 35:06

No, it's not. I just said I'm happy that you acknowledge the strength and mobility. You're such a brat, but I will acknowledge. Okay, so you have a lot of big feelings, obviously about the race too, and I also have some. My own feelings about being a crew chief in this one versus some of the other ones. And I think that I could have done a much better job as well, as the crew chief in this race. I don't think that I made you do some of the things that I knew you needed to be doing, and I think I should have been a little bit more assertive. I think that you were looking really good and feeling really good on lap one and two. And so I think that I stepped back a little bit and I don't think I should have done that. I think I should have tried to be a little bit more assertive with you as the crew chief to, and that's always the difficult thing to know, right? that's always the hard thing of do I push this on him? do I hear what he has to say? Like the long sleeve thing? I asked you multiple times, I'm like, I really think you need to take long sleeves. And you were like, no. Like you just kept saying, no. And so that's where I'm like, okay. Do I make him take it? Do I just force it on him or do I respect him? And I, obviously, you and I and just our relationship together we're, we have a very respectful relationship and I don't wanna force you to do things that you don't wanna do. But I wonder too, I should have forced more things on you in this race.

Speaker 2: 36:31

Yeah. that was

Speaker: 36:32

like, like making you take longer time at the car and doing some mobility and doing some of the things that I really wanted you to do.

Speaker 2: 36:39

There is a lot more conversations that have to take place before the week of the race.

Speaker: 36:44

Yes.

Speaker 2: 36:44

I think as I agree with that as crew chief. I don't think that I. I let you into my training enough.

Speaker: 36:52

I'm really glad to hear you say that and acknowledge that as well because I

Speaker 2: 36:55

agree. I know it's a good thing it's on recording because I'm gonna forget that in a month.

Speaker: 36:59

I agree. And these are conversations that we've had throughout the training too. And I kept checking in with you about Hey, are you getting your strength training in? have you been doing it? And you're like, eh, not as much as I should. And I'm like, Kev, we have a gym in the garage. There really is no excuse.'cause before you would do your strength training at school and you're like, it was really good during cross country season and Yep. And

Speaker 2: 37:21

it was

Speaker: 37:22

okay. But then there's several months after that. But you were also weren't very good in the summer leading up to cross country season. So being good for the couple of months where you're not supposed to be building muscle during that time. Like we talked to all of our clients about this is the time to build muscle was earlier in the year.

Speaker 2: 37:41

Yeah. Yeah, it,

Speaker: 37:42

because then you go into maintenance mode as you're building mileage to train for the race.

Speaker 2: 37:46

Yeah, it was not a, it seemed like it was gonna be good training.

Speaker: 37:50

And you know what? It's funny because I did not ask you about your strength training last week on our pre-race episode, and I thought about it afterwards and thought, oh my gosh, I did not ask him about this. And now that we're talking about this, I actually think it's a really good thing that I forgot to remind you, or that I forgot to bring that up because. I wonder if that would've put like a crack in your confidence at all. I don't know. I, we didn't, it didn't talk about it. So it's just hypothetical either way. but that's one piece of your train that did not really go well

Speaker 2: 38:23

somewhere on lap three where the girl that went off and won the race just blew past me. Like I was standing still put plenty of cracks in my confidence.

Speaker: 38:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:33

So you watch pigtails bounce away from me. I'm like, damn.

Speaker: 38:36

Yeah. what is your opinion on like the crewing aspect? And I know that you're so thankful and you always are so wonderfully complimentary of us as your crew, because I'm your wife and it's your two daughters that are there, your two teenage daughters. But genuinely, like what are your thoughts about the cruise stops? I

Speaker 2: 38:57

So you always think that I need to take a lot more time at the cruise stops?

Speaker: 39:01

I,

Speaker 2: 39:01

I

Speaker: 39:01

don't say I don't think a lot more time, but especially on this

Speaker 2: 39:04

one. I know, but I hear you say a lot more time.

Speaker: 39:06

you just rush in and out and I think that is a downside, especially when I'm watching and observing the other people in the race. And granted the other people that I'm seeing in our parking area aren't trying to go as fast as you.

Speaker 2: 39:19

And that's a big thing is Correct. Is that's a lot of who you have watched

Speaker: 39:23

Yes.

Speaker 2: 39:23

Go through the aid stations, the parking lot that you hang out in Is a lot of people, a lot of that parking lot is self-supported.

Speaker: 39:30

Right.

Speaker 2: 39:31

And then, there's some other people, but they've got different time goals. There's a whole lot different way to go through an aid station. If you're pushing to break 24 Yeah. Than if you're pushing to break 16.

Speaker: 39:43

Sure.

Speaker 2: 39:44

that is an eight hour difference. Yeah. And the amount of time that you can spend at an aid station is drastically different. Yes. one of the people that I was out on the trail with that was one of the pieces of advice that she had taken from other people was, take your time through aid stations. Her goal was to be beat 32 hours. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, a hundred percent. Take your time, make sure that you can get up out of the aid station. I go, sitting is not always a great choice because sitting feels so much better than getting back up. Like it's a mental hurdle to stand back up and keep going once you've sat down. if, especially once you've passed physically, you've passed the halfway point. Once you're past halfway, your body is exhausted. So when you're in a chair, the mental hurdle it takes to get back up out of the chair and keep going can feel like a lot.

Speaker: 40:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:30

but yeah, like her, one of her big pieces of advice that she was told before the race even started was, take your time through aid stations. And I don't think that I overdid it too much. you may disagree, but I don't think that I went too fast the first couple of times, even on the second aid station, like coming in, I told you I need to stop and make sure that I get some water and I eat some potato chips. I thought that was a good choice that I made.

Speaker: 40:54

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:54

I don't. Feel like I rushed through that aid station. Looking forward, I think that you're right. I think we need to develop some sort of mobility routine That I can do on a regular basis through the run. Whether it's at an aid station, whether it's a loop course like this, Whether I just come up with some varieties, different mobility things, so that if I'm going through the woods and I have a tree that I can hold onto, that's enough for me to do a mobility routine. Because by the end of it, you had suggested I'm like, this hurts and that hurts, and I'm on the phone with you and you're like, why don't you try some high knee marching? And I'm like. I can't lift my leg. so I think if I try heine marching, I will fall and I may hit my head on this rock and I don't think I'm gonna get back up. And you're like, you could try karaoke. And I laughed. I'm like, that's a good one. But the idea of crossing one leg in front of the other one and not falling over just sounded ludicrous to me.

Speaker: 41:45

Because I think it was too late.

Speaker 2: 41:46

Oh yeah. No. like we were so far past

Speaker: 41:48

the ability that

Speaker 2: 41:48

ability, a mobility routine was

Speaker: 41:50

gonna do anything. It was so far away that, but if you were to do it throughout the race and just keep those hips open and be in different positions other than just running. Yep. During the entirety of like hours and hours of this race, I think that it would make a difference.

Speaker 2: 42:05

Yeah. A hundred percent. No, by the end.'cause that was lap six, I think that we were having that conversation. I may be wrong, but I think it was, I think it was, yeah, I think it was lab six. My mindset on lap six, and you've pointed this out, there was not a lot of joy at that point. my mindset on lap six from basically the start to the end was, I have to get through this. I have to get to the finish line. Nothing's going to stop me. I will get to the finish line.

Speaker: 42:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:31

And that is not how I. That's not an enjoyable way to, to be out there for five hours.

Speaker: 42:37

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:38

Like just gr it and grind it is not enjoyable for five straight hours.

Speaker: 42:42

But I was also pointing out that just in general, watching you throughout the entirety of the race, there didn't seem to be the joy that I've seen from you in other races. And I wonder how much of that was because of that initial race mentality that you had going in

Speaker 2: 42:57

Yeah. And trying to,

Speaker: 42:58

or something else

Speaker 2: 42:59

trying to flip out of the race mentality.

Speaker: 43:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:01

I mean I think once, I don't know,'cause there, there were time goals that I had and then there was this new unique thing that showed up of hey, you're actually towards the front of the race.

Speaker: 43:15

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:15

there was a guy at Aid Station two and he's great. Like really great. but he said on one of the loops, he goes, you're on the podium right now. You just have to hold onto it. And I joked back to him, I'm like, darn there is no podium. We cross a finish line, we get a belt buckle and we get back into our cars. And he laughed like we were joking at that point in time. So like I did have jokes. I may not have shared them with you at the, at when we got back to the car, but like I did have some stuff. But just little comments like that are in your head. It's tough to not think about your place when people are telling you your place. Yeah. And I needed to just let that thing go. I needed to get so much, I would've been a lot better even focusing on the time goals and watching the time goals disappear. And not worry at all about what position I was in. and, there were times where I was fine. With what position I was in, especially as the race has started, like going further. And I was like, all right, anybody that catches me, they're going to go past me and I have nothing left to try and hang onto them with. So I will finish in whatever place I finish with.

Speaker: 44:17

yeah. if anyone was tracking you, they would see that you started the last loop in fourth place.

Speaker 2: 44:23

Yeah.

Speaker: 44:24

And then you ended in 11th.

Speaker 2: 44:25

Yeah.

Speaker: 44:26

So it was that last loop that

Speaker 2: 44:27

Yeah, that last loop was

Speaker: 44:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:29

Did not go smooth.'cause once you hit that last loop, if you've got anything left, you're like, oh, thank goodness it's the last loop. And,

Speaker: 44:35

but you also don't have any idea how anybody else is doing.

Speaker 2: 44:38

But if anybody was feeling better than death, they were, they had a slight advantage over me.

Speaker: 44:44

They were probably a leg up on you.

Speaker 2: 44:46

they were multiple legs up on me. Yeah. so that, that was, that's the thing is I also, and I didn't have the fun to me, like when I was hitting aid stations, one, I, I just wasn't super happy with the one aid station. They were just annoying to me. the second aid station was fine.

Speaker: 45:02

We hope that, I hope that none of them are listening to this.

Speaker 2: 45:04

I know. And it's not them either, because it's not like you guys were different.

Speaker: 45:09

No.

Speaker 2: 45:09

Like I was just grumpy.

Speaker: 45:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:11

For a lot

Speaker: 45:12

of That's true, right? It was just your perspective. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:14

Like the aid

Speaker: 45:15

station. Nothing was wrong with them.

Speaker 2: 45:16

No.

Speaker: 45:16

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:17

they had Christmas lights coming in and out of the aid station and the music was going and people are like cooking soup and making hot All the things are happening. Yeah. Like the aid station.

Speaker: 45:26

But you were coming in like a grump.

Speaker 2: 45:27

Yes. So it doesn't really matter who's happening. In fact, probably the more fun they were having, the more I was like, this aid station sucks.

Speaker: 45:34

Yeah. The probably more it annoyed you.

Speaker 2: 45:35

I hate all of you. Like that. They may have been having a blast last year. I was having a blast with them.

Speaker: 45:41

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:42

Even when I was physically sore, I was having a blast with I was having fun with their fun, and this year they were having fun and I was like, why are you having fun? Yeah. this is not a fun experience. Yeah.

Speaker: 45:52

Yeah. I agree. And like I saw a lot more of that joy. Not that you weren't necessarily enjoying feeling, because last year you struggled also. I think there's always gonna be struggle in a hundred miles, but last year you struggled also, especially in that last loop. But I just saw it was just like a different. Mindset for you this year is what it looked like From my perspective,

Speaker 2: 46:13

yes. So that's a big takeaway is I needed a more fun mindset. I think music would've helped with me on that one. Which is my other takeaway is I need to figure out what a better way to do music because the headphones I have hurt after a while and then I can't have them anymore. And

Speaker: 46:28

so we need like multiple different types of headphones

Speaker 2: 46:30

maybe. Yeah. I don't know.'cause what I've got is, yeah. Gets painful. fueling, I think trying some more varieties of options. And you are always all about real food. Real food has good, has positives and negatives.

Speaker: 46:44

Yes. There's positives and negatives of all of it.

Speaker 2: 46:46

Positives and negatives also that, that vary based off the temperature. Because there is stuff, mashed potatoes True. On lap five was like, oh, this sounds fantastic. It was like a warm cup of mashed potatoes. Yeah.

Speaker: 46:55

cause it was.

Speaker 2: 46:56

Mashed,

Speaker: 46:57

pulling down

Speaker 2: 46:57

mashed potatoes on lap three, I think I would've punched somebody. oh yeah. When it was hot. Are you struggling? Why don't you try these mashed potatoes? No. absolutely not happening on that one.

Speaker: 47:06

Yeah. True.

Speaker 2: 47:07

so it's not that like this food is going to work, it's that this food is going to work in the early evening hours.

Speaker: 47:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 47:14

so

Speaker: 47:14

so maybe we just need to do a better job planning that way as well of this is gonna be really good for you in the morning, have some ideas for the afternoon, and then in the evening, especially if it gets cold cooler.

Speaker 2: 47:25

Yeah.

Speaker: 47:25

Then we change our fueling plan throughout.

Speaker 2: 47:27

Yes. So a variety of fuels. Yeah. Whereas I went in with a pretty strict idea of what I wanted to eat.

Speaker: 47:33

And I think that also, this goes back to training and you and I having more conversations during the entirety of training, not just like the last week coming into it of. Checking in as if I am your coach or you, you're essentially self coached, but I am one of your coaches as well. not your, for your, you're the primary coach. I am, we're the coaching staff, I would say. Right together. There you go. but we need to have more coaching staff conversations to throughout your training to see how it's going. Because I feel like you just do your thing a lot of times and I'm just in the dark. I don't really know how things are going for you and. I think that is also a problem because especially when it gets to this point of the race, I don't know necessarily how to support you in the best way because we haven't been having these conversations throughout.

Speaker 2: 48:25

Yeah, so I'm really, you're then operating as crew chief, but flying blind

Speaker: 48:30

yeah,

Speaker 2: 48:30

because you're like I, I don't know what he needs in this position. I haven't had the conversation about what works and doesn't work in this position.

Speaker: 48:36

because I think too, we need to like practice that on your longer runs. Also, a lot of times, and this is one of the things that I, our listeners may or may not know about you is you don't like to bother other people. You don't like to be an inconvenience and you like to just fly under the radar a lot of times, and this is not one of those things that you can do that. Allows you to fly under the radar. You have to take more time for yourself. You have to inconvenience people. Like it's not even an inconvenience, like in your mind I say this, right? Because like you have to involve other people like me, like the girls, like the people that are going to be involved in this process. It's not an inconvenience for us and I really want you to hear me say that and have it also on rec recording. So maybe you need to listen to this again.

Speaker 2: 49:23

There's a few things that we've hit on the recording that will be helpful

Speaker: 49:25

because it's not an inconvenience like I am in this with you. And a lot of times when you go out on your runs, like I don't even know necessarily there was one weekend that you were doing things and I didn't even know that you were going out on like double twenties or you were doing some crazy thing. And it's because you get up in the morning because you don't wanna,

Speaker 2: 49:43

well'cause double

Speaker: 49:44

twenties take up to up family time or whatever it is. So you go out early, you wanna be. Back and done and so before anybody else is awake so that we could just go to church and go about our day as if that never happened.

Speaker 2: 49:57

Yeah. So a 40 miler has to involve, I can't hide a 40 miler.

Speaker: 50:02

You can't hide it. But you also did it completely self-supported.

Speaker 2: 50:04

Yes, but I, and I can do that'cause I keep, I loop and I get back to the house and that's fine. I can do a 40, but everybody's gonna be up in the middle of that.'cause that's going to take, we figured out in the last one, it took me a little over five hours, to do a 20 miler. If I wake up early enough, I'll be back. Essentially when you get back from walking the dog and. The girls may or may not even be awake at that point in time. And so I've essentially finished my whole workout before the majority of the day has Has started going. So to do a TA double 20 just means that I'm doing that on back-to-back days, which does not really hinder what anybody else wants to do or not do.

Speaker: 50:44

Right.

Speaker 2: 50:45

yeah, that's how I can do double twenties without anybody noticing.

Speaker: 50:47

But I, we need to notice is what I'm saying, like I'm saying that this needs to be like, this is a family affair. It is a family affair when we go to the races. So it needs to be a family affair in the training parts of it too. Not maybe every single day, but on some of those bigger days. And I have some ideas for your training too, like with, a lot of your 40 milers start first thing in the morning, and the beginning of the races are always good for you. It's the end that we need to work on. it's those later parts of the race that we need to work on. So maybe the longer runs need to be. At the end of the day and practicing more of that and practicing, actually getting in mobility in the middle of these runs as well.

Speaker 2: 51:26

Figuring out how to get in mobility in the middle of those runs, I think would be a great move.

Speaker: 51:30

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 51:30

I was actually really proud of myself of how I ran during dusk. because that often is mentally brutal. Yeah.'cause you start before the sun gets up and then you're out there running for the entirety of the day. And then the sun starts setting and it mentally hits you of wow, I am running for all of the sun. And then some. And for that, like next hour and a half when it first started getting. Dark, like a, as it was reaching dusk may not, before it got dark, but during dusk I was still doing great mentally, which that was a big win.

Speaker: 52:04

Yeah, I remember you saying in the past that dusk is a kind of a tough time mentally.

Speaker 2: 52:09

Yeah. So I was really proud of how I ran that portion of it.

Speaker: 52:11

Yeah. So what else do you have in your little notebook over there of like little takeaways? Anything else that we haven't talked about that you wanna mention?

Speaker 2: 52:18

I think we've gone through most of my notes. They're incoherent ramblings if, if anybody could actually see them. They are.

Speaker: 52:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 52:26

they don't look great. But I think we've, I think we've covered them, most of them.

Speaker: 52:29

so the big takeaways, what would you say are some of the big takeaways now after we've had some time to talk through them,

Speaker 2: 52:36

figure out how to put mobility into really long runs So that I can put mobility into really long races.

Speaker: 52:42

How much mobility do you do outside of your running right now?

Speaker 2: 52:47

I have a simple mobility routine that I do

Speaker: 52:51

daily before every run.

Speaker 2: 52:52

No.

Speaker: 52:53

Okay.

Speaker 2: 52:53

No, I used to. I think if I maintained the mobility routine I had post, like hernia surgery, yeah. I would probably be in a better shape.

Speaker: 53:00

You stopped doing that?

Speaker 2: 53:01

Yeah.

Speaker: 53:02

Okay.

Speaker 2: 53:02

Yeah.

Speaker: 53:02

I was under the impression that you still did that.

Speaker 2: 53:05

Interesting.

Speaker: 53:07

Okay. Yep. see, this is the conver these are the conversations that we should be having. Right?

Speaker 2: 53:12

Yeah.

Speaker: 53:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:13

that, that would probably be good.

Speaker: 53:14

yeah. You had your little band routine that you did.

Speaker 2: 53:16

Yeah. Had a whole little routine. That would probably great. And it's it's very minor strength also, which

Speaker: 53:21

It's both.

Speaker 2: 53:21

I needed massive overhaul and strength. and this was, you like the metaphor of like, when you don't get the message from a pebble, then it tends to be a rock and then it gets to be a bolder. Yeah. this was pretty bold, rich of that five hours on the last loop

Speaker: 53:34

feels like a boulder.

Speaker 2: 53:35

Yeah. because I know the physical bodies that were passing me in the last few miles too. Like those dudes are stronger than I am.

Speaker: 53:42

Yeah. like the amount of muscle.

Speaker 2: 53:44

Yeah.

Speaker: 53:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:44

beyond the fact that I couldn't move at that point in time. if we had been at the starting line and both fresh and it was like, all right, you two wrestle and somebody gets the belt buckle, like they would've crushed me. these are, these were stronger people than I was.

Speaker: 53:56

I think that ultra running in general, it just requires a lot more strength.

Speaker 2: 54:00

So that's cool. I'll look bigger and stronger

Speaker: 54:04

and be bigger and stronger, not just look it.

Speaker 2: 54:06

Yeah. But that's also some, sometimes.

Speaker: 54:09

Hallelujah. I've been trying to like, what, since the keys, remember when I, we, I bought that like mass gainer for you

Speaker 2: 54:16

Yep.

Speaker: 54:17

To help you try to gain weight before the keys 100. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 54:20

Yeah. Yeah. I know. I've been trying for you've

Speaker: 54:22

been fighting it for years.

Speaker 2: 54:23

I know. yeah. I maybe I'll adopt this. We'll see.

Speaker: 54:27

Not because of the way you look. I love the way you look, but I just because of what you wanna do, what your goals are.

Speaker 2: 54:33

I know.

Speaker: 54:33

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 54:34

But selfishly, it'd be nice to, look stronger also.

Speaker: 54:37

we always, I always like having more muscle on my body too. So I understand.

Speaker 2: 54:41

I think we have a lot of people that

Speaker: 54:43

I just don't want you to think that. I need anything more than I

Speaker 2: 54:47

know

Speaker: 54:47

what you've got right

Speaker 2: 54:48

here. I know I was listening very careful to see if I could point anything else out that you accidentally said,

Speaker: 54:52

I've been very careful with my word choice. You are wonderful the way you are and I'll also like you with more muscle. And that's, and a big part of that is because of it's going to, I know as a physical therapist, obviously I am not an ultra runner. I have never run more than 15 miles. 15 miles is my longest one time run. And that. Is Okay. So I don't know what that's like to actually go through that and endure that myself, but with all of my science and medical knowledge, I know that you are going to feel better and perform better if you have more muscle.

Speaker 2: 55:26

Yeah. No, it was that, I don't know, lap five or six, somewhere in there was like, your

Speaker: 55:30

body just shut down on you.

Speaker 2: 55:31

literally, I, I stepped on a rock and I think the rock was not even raised out of the thing, but I stepped on a rock and almost fell over and, leg is cramping. I'm like, I can't run western states. it just, it was

Speaker: 55:45

it like hitches

Speaker 2: 55:46

blatantly obvious. Yeah. That I'm like, you can't even possibly complete the thing that you want to complete. The reason you're doing this race is to get a lottery ticket into a race that right now you wouldn't be able to get to the finish line of I'm like, oh, and I, you've, yeah. You have gently made suggestions to that. Very gently, very well stated suggestions to that effect. And I have ignored them and I have, pretended to not hear them. And it was abundantly clear. And I think it's good that we're recording so close to it because there were a lot of things that came out and they were very stark and they were very clear that I am just simply not strong enough and ultimately that's gonna make me healthier for the next, decades. Getting stronger now is going to make me a much healthier person.

Speaker: 56:34

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 56:34

20, 34 years from now. So that's an awesome win.

Speaker: 56:37

Yes.

Speaker 2: 56:37

But I can't cross the finish line and get the belt buckle that I want in the state that I currently am in. Or the state that it was in like two days ago. Right now.

Speaker: 56:46

Right now is a different story right

Speaker 2: 56:47

now. I can hardly move. No. Yeah. Actually I'm moving pretty well.

Speaker: 56:50

You're pretty, yeah. I think you're moving pretty well today

Speaker 2: 56:51

and which I think is. Predominantly a testament to my fueling. I think even when things got dark, even when I was like, you know what? I could just take a nap on the side of the path. I was still taking in the calories that I needed to take in. we can discuss my various nutrition needs, but I was still forcing calories upon myself. Even in my state of like sadness and anger. Yeah. Like sad and angry and ev my hands were so sticky and I'm like, and I need to take another gel right now, otherwise I won't be able to take more steps.

Speaker: 57:23

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 57:24

So I still did it. I forced it upon myself, which I was proud of that too.

Speaker: 57:27

that is definitely a win. Talk about Hallelujah. Anyway, because I know that this is really one of your personal mottoes that you had shared with me during the race, and this is a song that I put on the recap photo posts that I posted up today. Talk to me a little bit about your mindset and the hallelujah. Anyway,

Speaker 2: 57:51

that's how I flipped the goals disappearing.

Speaker: 57:55

And when did that happen?

Speaker 2: 57:58

I think the sun was still up at the time. So lap four, it might've been lap five. Honestly, it all blurs together. Even when I write down thoughts like the next day, it all just blurs together.

Speaker: 58:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 58:09

like I started smooth,

Speaker: 58:11

it's blurs day

Speaker 2: 58:12

smooth for 40 miles and so hard for 60.

Speaker: 58:15

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 58:15

but it was a way to take like the sadness away from the ghost disappearing.'cause I love that song.

Speaker: 58:19

in case anybody's not familiar with it, it's a song by Rend Collective. It's a, it's an awesome song.

Speaker 2: 58:25

and the lines, and I'm not at all gonna attempt to sing, but the line is even if, and it's all, even if the breakthrough never comes, even if I don't get this, even if I don't get that, even if this doesn't happen, hallelujah. Anyway. And the whole setup is I flipped it to my, even if 16, even if 1640, even if, and the goals were just slipping away from me.

Speaker: 58:47

Yeah,

Speaker 2: 58:47

hallelujah. Anyway, because I'm still out here doing the thing. It takes me all the way back to 2017, the year I had three seizures, the year that I wasn't sure if I was gonna be able to still run. If I was gonna be able to still compete, maybe I could run, but I couldn't do anything that was gonna be like harder, more physically challenging, more difficult. Could I push myself? Like I wasn't sure. Doctors weren't sure. Now. No one really knew what the cause was, so no one knew what the answer was. So yeah, everything hurts, everything's painful, and the times are slipping away. But I'm still out here. I'm forget, I'm still out here competing. I'm still here. hallelujah. Anyway, and that got me through, that got me through a lot of the dark part. there's a few songs, and this is why I said we gotta come up with a better way of getting the music.'cause I had so many good songs on my playlist.

Speaker: 59:40

Yeah. We put a good playlist

Speaker 2: 59:41

together. The playlist was phenomenal. and there are other people in the race and look, God bless'em all, they're all amazing people. They're all phenomenal. We've covered this already. I think it's annoying to be playing music out of your phone as you go through without headphones. Without headphones. Yeah. I just think that's annoying. So I was not going to do it. But then I just, I didn't have music that could brighten me For the last 34 miles. And that would've helped. I don't think I could've gone any faster, but it certainly would've helped my mindset.

Speaker: 1:00:11

Yeah. And I think that's such a beautiful mindset to take in because there are plenty of times in running and in life when things don't go our way. And if we can. See that we're doing it anyway and be joyful in the process. That's such a blessing.

Speaker 2: 1:00:27

and I love running.

Speaker: 1:00:29

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:29

And you've said it a couple times in this podcast and not incorrectly, there was not as much joy in this a hundred as there has been in previous. There was pain in previous ones. Yeah. But I think I kept trying to fall back on joy.

Speaker: 1:00:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:44

And this one I fell back on like endure And get through it. And it would've been nicer to fall back on other things when I crossed the finish line. You're like, are you so proud of yourself? I'm like, I made it like, and that wasn't what I had last time. Yeah. I had a bigger, happier smile this time. I had a happy smile this time. I was happy that I was done with it. And last time I was,

Speaker: 1:01:06

it was a different happiness

Speaker 2: 1:01:07

behind

Speaker: 1:01:07

the smile.

Speaker 2: 1:01:08

Yeah. that was the thing is, yeah. It got. Dark out there, especially in that last lap. Yeah, it got dark.

Speaker: 1:01:15

So yesterday we went to bed at four, around four 15 we woke up around nine 30 and like you looked over at me, I saw you look at me and my eyes were open and you're like, I'm hungry. I wanna go downstairs for the hotel breakfast.'cause the hotel breakfast ended at 10 and so we did. I'm like, all right, let's go. Come on, let's, we'll go get some food. I had gotten us a late checkout so we didn't have to be outta the hotel till one, which was great. And I said, we'll go get some food and we'll come back up and go back to sleep. So we did. And when Kevin and I were sitting there at breakfast, I said, what are some of your immediate thoughts? So when you were, those

Speaker 2: 1:01:51

were raw.

Speaker: 1:01:51

Yeah. So when we were sitting there, it was 10:00 AM you had finished the race less than eight hours before that,

Speaker 2: 1:01:58

right? Yeah. You want raw thoughts.

Speaker: 1:01:59

And Kevin looked at me and said, with almost tears in his eyes, this is dumb. I'm not that good at it. And I should stop doing this like that. Those were your three things that you said, and I wrote them down because I wanted to capture that and ask you about that.

Speaker 2: 1:02:21

Yeah. Those thoughts were on repeat. I don't think I got to them until lap six. you went through my times of all my laps.

Speaker: 1:02:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:02:32

I was doing okay until I got to that lap. Lab six. And then lap six, I was running at 16 to 17 minute pace and I was walking at like 20 to 22 minute pace.

Speaker: 1:02:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:02:49

Like it was. It. It was not quick.

Speaker: 1:02:51

It was rough. And that is fine for some people, but that is so much slower than what you are capable of. It is. And I think that's important for us to point out, right? Because yes, I don't want anyone to ever feel bad about their paces.'cause sometimes we hear very fast people like you. I am not as fast as Kevin, so I understand this very much. When we hear people talk about, oh, how slow I was, and you're like, oh God, gimme a break. But com, in comparison to like, he was holding sub eight minute pace for the first loop and for the first second loop too.

Speaker 2: 1:03:23

Yep.

Speaker: 1:03:23

So in comparison to that, we're talking, this is a much slower pace, so take whatever it is that you normally run. if you're a runner out there and you're running 10 minute pace and that's like your normal comfortable pace. And then essentially triple, triple it. Double, double trip and triple it, right? Yeah. yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:03:40

Yeah. Because my eight minute's pace went to 16 minute pace.

Speaker: 1:03:42

But your walking pace then was around. 22 you said? Yes. So that's almost triple

Speaker 2: 1:03:47

yes. Yeah. And that was about as fast as I could walk. Like I was trying to even be like, maybe I can power walk this stretch. Yeah. And I could power walk for a little bit and then I glanced at my watch. I'm power walking. At 1730.

Speaker: 1:04:01

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:04:01

And my heart rate was spiking on me. what is wrong with my body? And having the thought of what is wrong with my body is not good.

Speaker: 1:04:07

No,

Speaker 2: 1:04:08

it led to, it led

Speaker: 1:04:09

to, the answer is I'm running a hundred miles,

Speaker 2: 1:04:11

but that was never the answer that I gave myself. The answer was, it's breaking, the wheels are falling off.

Speaker: 1:04:16

Yeah. You said that to me on the phone one time and I was like, whoa, you gotta get rid of that one.

Speaker 2: 1:04:20

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: 1:04:21

You're like, everything's falling apart. My body's falling apart.

Speaker 2: 1:04:24

Yeah.

Speaker: 1:04:24

everything's just going to crap.

Speaker 2: 1:04:26

Yeah. That's because I

Speaker: 1:04:27

was like, whoa.

Speaker 2: 1:04:27

I don't think at the time I could have said out loud what I told you the next morning. I think if I had out loud said, this is stupid and I'm not good at it. I don't know if I would've made it to the finish line.

Speaker: 1:04:38

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:04:38

I had the thought, I had the thought of a lot. and I kept trying to flip it to, hallelujah. Anyway, There's a few other songs that, that I really love. I have to give up my ego.

Speaker: 1:04:51

Yes. That's no survivors.

Speaker 2: 1:04:52

No Survivors. That's a great one. That's a great one. My ego, my pride. Burn it all. There's no survivors. And yeah, that helped me. And it helped me for A minute and then,

Speaker: 1:05:04

yeah. Those other thought, they're loud and they're intrusive. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:05:07

That's the thing is they're always there.

Speaker: 1:05:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:05:09

And there was nothing to distract. We should put up. it's not good video. but you should post the video that I took

Speaker: 1:05:16

Of

Speaker 2: 1:05:16

mile, like what I think it was 88.

Speaker: 1:05:18

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:05:19

Of what my view was at mile 88, because it's a headlamp and you can see about four feet in front of you on the path. And if you look to the side, you're gonna trip. Yeah. Because you're not illuminating the woods. You're illuminating four feet in front of you. So that is, the entire race is now no longer a beautiful park. I can't take in the stars above me'cause there was no moon. So there was no ambient light at all. So if I looked away, I would've tripped or I would've missed a turn on the path. That's actually probably how I got lost, is I probably missed a turn somewhere in there. But all the trails loop back on themselves, so I eventually made it. And I was, I saw people in front of me, so I think they also missed the turn. somehow that happened on the last loop. But yeah, it was some bad thoughts of. this is dumb. I've had, this is dumb before, and you laugh because you're like, of course it's dumb. We're all out here running a hundred miles. Then you make a joke with the next person coming up. They're like, how are you doing? I'm like, I'm doing something stupid. How are you doing? And you joke about it. And I just, I didn't have that joke in me.

Speaker: 1:06:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:06:21

I went from, this is dumb to, this is dumb. I'm dumb and I'm bad at it, and I should stop and quit and I should never do this again. It

Speaker: 1:06:30

just, and it pulling my family down with me.

Speaker 2: 1:06:31

Yes.

Speaker: 1:06:32

And that was the other one that you

Speaker 2: 1:06:33

Yeah. it just kept going. I was going dead. Yeah. He

Speaker: 1:06:35

was spiraling.

Speaker 2: 1:06:36

It was such a terrible spiral. There was no like, flip it into something silly because Yes, of course. This is dumb. It's a hundred miles. That's dumb.

Speaker: 1:06:45

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:06:45

that's dumb. Yeah. like Western states, the race I wanna do, that's dumb. You know what race that was? That was a horse race. They needed to take the horses from point A to point B and they thought, Hey, we'll make it a competition if who can get the horses fastest from point A to point B. And the one guy, the one year the guy's horse got sick or hurt or something and it couldn't get from point A to point B. And he said, oh, I'll do it. And he went from point A to point B. And you, then that became the competition.

Speaker: 1:07:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:07:13

Yeah. No, that's stupid.

Speaker: 1:07:14

Yeah. It started off with an actual point of moving the horses from where they needed to go

Speaker 2: 1:07:18

and there's still a horse race. Yeah. I think it takes place the week after or the week before. but the whole idea of just, oh, we're gonna go out into the woods and we're gonna loop this thing. It's kinda more of a figure eight. We're gonna figure eight this thing for hours. It's silly on end. It's silly.

Speaker: 1:07:32

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:07:32

But my brain couldn't flip it to, it's silly, it spiraled it to it's bad. And yeah, that was, it was so hard.

Speaker: 1:07:41

So what do you think about it now?

Speaker 2: 1:07:44

That's one of the things, like when you were asking me the finish line, are you proud of yourself? Because I think that you wanted me to be able to honestly say yes, and I am really proud that I didn't quit with as bad and dark as things got. I'm really proud that I didn't quit. That's where my pride was. In other races, I had different things to be proud of. Yeah. And I'm not proud of the fact that it got so dark because that was silly.'cause it's silly and I just needed more reminders of that.

Speaker: 1:08:16

Yeah. But maybe that's the lesson that you needed from this race.

Speaker 2: 1:08:19

It could

Speaker: 1:08:20

possibly One of the lessons.

Speaker 2: 1:08:21

One of several lessons. Yeah. I think. I think we, in

Speaker: 1:08:23

addition to being jacked,

Speaker 2: 1:08:27

we're gonna have to do transition photos because getting jacked. I'm gonna get jacked.

Speaker: 1:08:30

Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:08:30

Remember when it got jacked? When we first had RI

Speaker: 1:08:33

P 90 x?

Speaker 2: 1:08:34

Yes. I got jacked. I'm gonna go back to that.

Speaker: 1:08:37

You're gonna go back to that?

Speaker 2: 1:08:37

Yeah.

Speaker: 1:08:38

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:08:38

Yeah.

Speaker: 1:08:39

We'll do some transition photos. Perfect. Some before and afters or some durings

Speaker 2: 1:08:42

there like ridiculous pull-ups that I was doing. Yeah. We're gonna do that again.

Speaker: 1:08:45

but like I said, maybe that is part of the lesson and to. Let you know and part of the experience, I always love the saying, you either get the result that you want or the lesson that you need. And maybe one of the big lessons you needed from this race was that you can go into a really dark place and get out of it and keep going. Or maybe it's not that you got out of it, maybe that you went into that dark place and it didn't stop you.

Speaker 2: 1:09:11

Yeah. The dark place didn't stop me. But also, I don't need to go to that really dark place. Like in a race like this, yeah. There's gonna be down times, but trying to flip it and make it silly is gonna be more enjoyable. maybe don't wear my like hardcore race shorts. What if I put the flamingos on instead? What if I had that mentality from the gun? Yeah. That

Speaker: 1:09:35

yeah,

Speaker 2: 1:09:35

when I took off my racing pants, because I only have one pair of racing pants.'cause this, were already covered. I don't like to buy things for myself, so those are black. But when those came off, if the flamingos came out instead of my like dark blue shorts. Like

Speaker: 1:09:48

Yeah. If you had some fun racing shorts,

Speaker 2: 1:09:49

yeah. would that have changed the day? who knows? But

Speaker: 1:09:54

would've been a conversation piece, that's for sure.

Speaker 2: 1:09:56

Yeah. I think the silliness would've,

Speaker: 1:09:58

yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:09:59

I think the silliness needs to stay a whole lot more at the forefront. Moving forward.

Speaker: 1:10:04

I love that so much because,

Speaker 2: 1:10:06

and getting jacked

Speaker: 1:10:07

and getting jacked. E jacked. A jacked silly man. Silly jacked man. But it's when you're silly, that's when so much of. Of your wonderful personality is able to come out, like even with our girls, like sometimes when you're just silly, like the amount of joy that you bring to everyone around you, to our family, to our girls, to yourself when you are that silly version of yourself is really incredible.

Speaker 2: 1:10:35

That's why I danced at the end of lap five, right in the headlights of the car.

Speaker: 1:10:39

Yeah. Which was awesome. And the girls loved that.

Speaker 2: 1:10:42

Yeah. Because I forced them to hang out for hours and hours in the middle of the woods. With poor connectivity.

Speaker: 1:10:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:10:47

So that's not helping anything.

Speaker: 1:10:49

No.

Speaker 2: 1:10:49

and you don't even tell me most of the stories. No, you tell me almost none of the stories because otherwise I would probably never want run another one of these races.

Speaker: 1:10:57

Because you would feel bad that we were going through whatever we're going through. But that's just part of the process that I've accepted as well, because, just for those of you out there that. Are so wonderful and say, oh my gosh, Angie, you and the girls are such an amazing support crew. Yes. And they're teenagers, so don't forget that as well. And they are sisters that fight. And so I don't want to portray a lack of reality of everything was just so wonderful and magical and the girls, everybody was so wonder it, it was great overall, right? Overall it was great, but there was definitely moments. So it same way that Kevin had highs and lows, there's also those highs and lows and annoyances as the crew chief and as being part of the crew too.

Speaker 2: 1:11:43

Yeah.

Speaker: 1:11:43

and like one of my big fails, all that I haven't even admitted yet on the podcast is that I wasn't even there when Kevin finished his. Fifth, fourth loop. Fourth loop. Fourth loop. I had gone to the bathroom, so I wasn't even at the car. I had timed it wrong and I was actually off filming, trying to film the video for social media. And that was what was taking me so long. I don't if I told you that, but

Speaker 2: 1:12:06

Yeah. I saw you and at our younger one, I saw you on the little path heading back towards the car, and then you stopped and were taking pictures.

Speaker: 1:12:14

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:12:15

And I'm like, all right, I'm going to, I'm gonna start going again. Yeah. And I was in a good,

Speaker: 1:12:18

I had no idea.

Speaker 2: 1:12:19

I was in a good mood at that time. And as soon as I showed up, our older one texted you, but there's no reception. So you didn't get that text? Yes, until I had already taken off. Yeah.

Speaker: 1:12:26

And I felt so bad and so guilty that I wasn't there. And I felt like I had totally failed you. And that's a hundred percent on me. And like my brain automatically wanted to go to why didn't you call me? Why didn't you, Riley, why didn't she call me? and none of that's is not her fault at all. 100% totally on me.

Speaker 2: 1:12:43

no. But. We have no idea what would've happened if you were there.

Speaker: 1:12:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:12:47

We don't have any idea if

Speaker: 1:12:49

No, and obviously that's the way it was supposed to happen.

Speaker 2: 1:12:52

It's

Speaker: 1:12:52

like that.'cause that's what did happen. It's

Speaker 2: 1:12:53

what, it's what? It's,

Speaker: 1:12:54

so that's what was supposed to happen.

Speaker 2: 1:12:55

Yeah. So we're never, we're not dwelling on that at all.

Speaker: 1:12:58

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:12:58

we're just not.

Speaker: 1:12:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:12:59

I got the fuel that I needed and I headed back out and it was, it's what it was. The only thing that I really wish that I had done on that one is I wish that I had brought headphones. Because I had planned, I was like, I'll get headphones for lap five and then they'll hurt by the end of lap five and I'll be able to get through lap six. And I, I didn't have headphones and then I didn't want headphones on the last lap because it was so pitch black dark. And I'm like, I've gotta be able to focus.

Speaker: 1:13:20

Yeah. For sure. All right, Kev, I, this is obviously a lot longer than any of our normal episodes. We're almost double now. But thank you to all of you that are still listening. Maybe you're listening to this in two different parts, in two different runs, and that's totally okay too. But, any final thoughts right now? Did you, so where are you on that, those last couple of thoughts that we just talked about Now? the, this is dumb. I'm not that good at it. Like it, do you still feel that way now?

Speaker 2: 1:13:50

Oh no. This is still dumb.

Speaker: 1:13:51

Oh. what about, I'm not that good at it,

Speaker 2: 1:13:53

but this is dumb, but I, in a silly way and that's fine. I totally accept that this is dumb. I think most people doing it,

Speaker: 1:13:58

yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:13:58

Even the people who are like elite and winning things, like winning major races, they do this for a living. I think that they, you can only do this for a living because you accept, it's ludicrous. you have to hold that just a little bit.

Speaker: 1:14:09

yeah. do you think you're not good at it?

Speaker 2: 1:14:13

yeah.

Speaker: 1:14:14

Really?

Speaker 2: 1:14:14

Yeah.

Speaker: 1:14:15

you literally were in 11th place overall this year. Sixth place overall last year.

Speaker 2: 1:14:20

Yeah.

Speaker: 1:14:21

Like you are good at this. the numbers say differently.

Speaker 2: 1:14:25

I am

Speaker: 1:14:26

And anyone looking at this objectively would say differently.

Speaker 2: 1:14:30

Yeah, I'm okay at this.

Speaker: 1:14:31

Okay. You can get to that point today.

Speaker 2: 1:14:33

Yeah.

Speaker: 1:14:34

Okay. I think you're pretty darn good at it. And I also think you can get better based on the things that we discussed.

Speaker 2: 1:14:40

I'll give you this. I'm not bad at this.

Speaker: 1:14:42

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:14:43

And good. And there's some growth that needs to be done.

Speaker: 1:14:45

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:14:46

Of muscle,

Speaker: 1:14:47

muscle getting jacked. So that's the takeaway. All right, you guys, anything, any other final thoughts?

Speaker 2: 1:14:54

I think that's a lot of sharing.

Speaker: 1:14:56

A lot of sharing. Thank you Kevin. I just wanna acknowledge you for your vulnerability and sharing this very raw recap of this. I think it's gonna be helpful for our listeners and, letting them see the real side of this because on social media, you guys could see some of my updates, but it wasn't really giving you the full picture. And when. We're out there. it's real and it's raw and it's dark, and sometimes it's light and sometimes it's, it is really boring too as a crew chief, I'll tell you that too. Like sometimes I was just sitting there this is boring. So I was like reading some of the time. I was trying to make videos, but the service was terrible. But it's a whole mix of emotions. And I know that I went through a rollercoaster of emotions, so I can only imagine how much more you know, of a rollercoaster you went through as well with everything that you were going through.'cause I was not in any physical pain.

Speaker 2: 1:15:48

that's the thing. It's the same role of coaster of emotions, but I'm also in absolute exhaustion and physical pain.

Speaker: 1:15:53

Yeah. Which makes your mind completely unable to deal with it.

Speaker 2: 1:15:57

Yeah. It's neat.

Speaker: 1:15:58

Yeah, it's tough that way. All right you guys, thanks for being with us. Thank you for following along, for being a part of this. I hope this episode was helpful. If it was, share it with, another crazy runner that you might know that runs a hundred milers as well, so that person knows that they're not alone either.

Speaker 2: 1:16:15

Or, just stick with us and we'll get back to, regular schedule programming, but also stay tuned because I'll probably do something else stupid in the future.

Speaker: 1:16:24

So there you go. That answers that third point of I should stop doing this. Clearly. You're not gonna stop

Speaker 2: 1:16:28

this. No, I'm not stopping

Speaker: 1:16:29

doing this. There we go. All right, you guys, thanks for being with us. This has been The Real Life Runners podcast, episode number 445. Now get out there and run your life.