Real Life Runners with Angie and Kevin Brown

430: How Restriction Fuels Binge Eating (and How to Overcome It) with Kelly Lyons

• Angie Brown

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In this week’s Real Life Runners podcast, I’m joined by Kelly Lyons — a nutrition and eating psychology coach who helps women heal their relationship with food and their bodies. Kelly opens up about her personal journey through binge eating, which began back in high school, and how she ultimately broke free by uncovering the root causes and learning to rewire her brain.

This conversation is honest, compassionate, and full of practical wisdom. We talk about the emotional patterns that often drive binge eating, why willpower alone isn’t the answer, and how to start building a sense of trust with your body again. Kelly and I also dive into the dangers of diet culture, how to reconnect with your true hunger and fullness cues, and the role that movement and self-compassion play in recovery.

Whether you’ve struggled with binge eating yourself, wrestled with food guilt, or just want to create a more peaceful relationship with eating and exercise — this episode will give you hope, understanding, and tools to start making real, lasting change.

Kelly Lyons is a certified nutrition and eating psychology coach who helps women overcome binge eating and create a healthy, peaceful relationship with food and their bodies. Drawing from her own journey of recovery, Kelly combines science-based nutrition with mindset and emotional awareness to guide her clients toward lasting change. Her compassionate, practical approach empowers women to break free from diet culture, rebuild trust with their bodies, and find joy in both food and movement.

If you want to connect with her, you can find her at the links below! 

https://kellylyonscoaching.com/
https://www.instagram.com/kellylyonscoaching/


🎧 Tune in to learn how to break the cycle, rebuild trust with your body, and find freedom in food and movement again.


00:28 Kelly's Background and Approach to Nutrition

01:27 Personal Struggles with Binge Eating

04:53 The Cycle of Dieting and Binge Eating

09:01 Understanding the Brain's Role in Binge Eating

12:21 Emotional and Restriction-Driven Eating

14:36 The Impact of Diet Culture and Exercise

17:44 Coping with Emotions and Boredom

22:55 App to Control Socia

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this is the Real Life Runners Podcast, episode number 430. Today I get to sit down with Kelly Lyons and we talk about a topic that a lot of people. Struggle with, but not a lot of people talk about, and that is binge eating. Especially as runners, we are often very conscious and try to be healthy. And for a lot of people that leads to restriction, which unfortunately can lead a lot of runners into the cycle of restricting and binge eating. So today I talk to Kelly, who is a. An expert in this area, and she breaks down the three hidden patterns that can be the root causes of binge eating and how to overcome them. So if this is ever something that you have struggled with, stay tuned.

Angie:

Welcome to the podcast today. I am so excited to have Kelly Lyons here with me. Hello, Kelly. How are you? Hello. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. thank you for joining me. I'm very excited to dig into this topic today because I think it's one that a lot of runners deal with, whether they like to admit it or not, because this is a topic today. We're talking about binge eating, and like emotional eating and all of those things. It is. More of a sensitive topic, I think. And so can you just before we dive into, the topic of the hour, give us a little bit of an idea about who you are, what you do, who do you help, and how you got into this line of work.

Kelly:

Yeah, sure. thank you again, Angie, for so much for having me. again, everyone, I'm so excited to be here. My name is Kelly Lyons and I am a nutrition and eating psychology coach. And what I do is I help women stop binge eating, stop overeating so they can feel in control around food. And the way I do that is actually a little bit unconventional because a lot of times people who stop binge eating based. Start another diet or they cut carbs or they, work out 15 times a week. Yeah. Thinking they need more willpower. And in reality that's the thing that's making their binging, their overeating and food obsession worse. So what we actually do with the people in my world who struggle with this is we work on finding your root cause and then rewiring your brain. So food no longer has this emotional like obsessive. Hold over you. And just to get into how I came across this and starting helping others was not only my knowledge and my education, but also my experience. I struggled with binge eating for well over 12 years of my life. And it's so funny that you say you're like, it's not talked about a lot. It's, it is 100% a sensitive topic, but it's also so isolating. That people who struggle, they struggle in silence because. Binge eating is a, it, it's a habit or a routine that's based around shame, guilt, judgment, self-loathing. So it's something that is so insanely secretive and I think just us having this conversation is. So important because a lot of people who are extremely active or athletes or runners, no matter your level of experience, so many people struggle with this. So I'm really excited to have this conversation.

Angie:

Yeah, I am too. So you said you've struggled with this for 12 years. Could you give us a little bit of an insight into that journey of like how it started with you and then when you realized it was a problem? Yeah. What is your experience here?

Kelly:

Yeah, absolutely. So mine was actually, it started, my senior year in high school. And just to kinda let's, we don't need to go too deep, but what happened was basically like I just felt very lost in my senior year of high school. I was an athlete and. Sports ended. I wasn't sure if I was playing in college and I had so many friends that had like their life figured out, right? They had their major, they knew what college they were going to. They knew their next chapter, and I didn't. And usually when I was playing sports, I was getting home at 6 30, 7 o'clock at night. Now I was getting home at 2 40, 2 45 in the afternoon. No one was home because my parents were working, and I was lost alone. I didn't know what to do with myself. I didn't turn, I had no one to really turn to, and I will never forget the first day I went into the cabinet. I had the chewy, chipsa, hoy, like the red thin ones. And I had a couple and I realized. How good they tasted. It was almost like something lit up like, wow, I felt better eating that. And I ate the entire fricking thing. And because I was now 17 and I had my license, I was able, I was like, as soon as I did it, I was like, oh my God, what am I gonna do? My parents are gonna be like, where the hell did the cookies go? So I drove out and I got another thing to replenish. Realize that I could like. Do this all the time. And immediately this was something that was happening like every day as a form of comfort. And I gained, naturally some weight and I started Weight Watchers as what most people did back in the day, right? And I started Weight Watchers and my first week, of course, type A perfectionist, overachiever, I followed it perfectly. I didn't go over one point and I lost six pounds in that first week. And I immediately was like, oh my gosh, I found the answer. I'm gonna get my life back. I'm gonna. Stop this, blah, blah, blah, and I weighed in. I went to my meeting, and then boom, I took my car and I went right to McDonald's to celebrate. And it was almost like this switch of, okay, I did everything perfect. I get to reward myself, eat all day. Then that Sunday I had to be perfect again and in my mind, me having to be perfect again led to having to eat everything right then and there. And then I started going into some really dark rabbit holes of different diets, going, like working out multiple times a day. Like I would take a class at five in the morning, I would go during lunch, and then I would go at night just to try to. Get my willpower and get my, get myself back thinking that would help. This serious issue that I was going through and nobody knew about. And again, this was years and years of every diet, every rule book, every exercise, every high intensity, multiple times a day to try to get myself outta this cycle. But like I didn't recognize, of course, looking back now, everything I did just made everything worse and worse. It was like that snowball effect going down a hill, right? The snowball just got bigger and bigger as it was picking up, speed. it was such a traumatic time that so many people didn't know about. And now looking back, recognizing, okay, let's actually try to heal from the inside out because all I'm doing is, I'm on Pinterest, I'm on Google, I'm buying the books, getting the recipes. Getting all this stuff, hiring the people to help me. And nothing was working. And I was like, okay, this started as an inside job, let's fix it from an inside job. And that's how I was starting to slowly heal.

Angie:

That's beautiful. And like you touch on so many things there in, your own journey that I would love to highlight and dig a little bit deeper into. And one of those things is this idea that diet culture wants to. Tell us, which is, you have to run to burn calories, you have to exercise to burn calories, or you have to exercise to earn your food. Did you ever like go through that whole thing of using exercise or running as like a means to an end here? Oh, totally.

Kelly:

Yeah. And This was my experience from a while ago, but I will tell you there, I wanna say a couple months ago, somebody sent me a Noom ad. It was like one ice cream cone equals 1.5 miles of running. And it's, I hate those things, but that was literally like a couple months ago. So it's oh my God, while my experience, it's still there. It's still there. Yeah. And it's still in our faces, so 100%. And you know what the sad thing is? Looking back and it's funny, I'm like, I wonder why I'm not friends with these people anymore. My friendships. My friendships were created from hating our bodies. And we. Like we, we consoled each other in the sense of we would have pizza at night. We would talk about how disgusting our legs were and how many miles we had to run the next day. And what time we were gonna meet up for the gym to burn off what we were eating tonight. Yes. I was not able to compartmentalize my exercise routine. And what I was eating, it immediately became, if I have this, then I have to run. If I have this, then I have to go to the gym. Not once, but twice. If I was really bad, guess what? My ass was getting there three times a day. Yeah. And not only was I injured all the time, but yeah. Absolutely miserable. And it was it was really actually heartbreaking because growing up playing sports my entire life, I loved it. I loved it so much. And all of a sudden it became a source of punishment. A source of me being a failure, a source of me having to right all of my wrongs. Like I felt like I was like going into confession every time I would. Yeah. And it immediately became this, I am a bad person. From what I'm eating and I have to make up for it.

Angie:

Yeah.

Kelly:

Yeah. It's awful.

Angie:

it is awful and I think that like it is something that I think a lot of runners do. Share whether they want to admit it or not, and whether that was the original reason that they got into running. A lot of people do end up finding themselves in that place at some point in time. I know that it, I have a similar story as well. I got into running just because I wanted to burn calories and lose weight and quote unquote look like a runner, right? Because runners have skinny bodies. That sounds like a great idea. Let me just go do what they're doing. but let's go back to binge eating, and just this topic of binge eating because. I really want to help our listeners understand the brain-based reasons why we binge, right? Because this is something that you just fell into one day by the sounds of it. You came home from school, you had nothing else to do. You're like, oh, I found these cookies in the cabinet. But then it turned into this huge snowball like you experienced here. Why does that happen? what is going on in our brain that. Leads to binging and guilt and binging and guilt in this cycle that women find themselves in.

Kelly:

Yeah, absolutely. And there's a couple things, but I, the first thing when you talked about, wanting to start running for that reason, I will never forget my now husband, we were just dating at the time. We moved in together and, we had a girl, we were in like this little condo complex. We had a. Grocery store right below us. And I'll never forget, he was asleep. I went downstairs, I brought, I got food. And like he woke up the next morning and he's what are you talking about? And I was like, what do you mean? He's you texted me at two o'clock in the morning saying you just signed up for your first half marathon. And I was like, because, and like of course it was because I binged, I hated myself and I needed that solution. Yep. And like that. So when, and you needed

Angie:

your solution right then and there. Oh. Because like your brain was like

Kelly:

grasping for it. Oh, I'm gonna fix it. Let's find, do half marathons near me. Let's just go run 13 miles. And of course, great idea. Yeah. But yeah. So before I get into the reasons why we actually. Do binge because there are three really large umbrellas. I think really just talking about the cycle of binging and having to work off this food would be really beneficial for your listeners too. Absolutely. So I think of it as like a circle. So the first thing we wanna do, so there's five steps, right? The first thing we wanna do is we want to lose weight. So what do we do? Step one is we start a diet, and step two is when we start this diet, we restrict in some way, shape, or form. It's. Calories, certain macros or like we can't have bread any, or can't have, the foods that we like, whatever it is a form of restriction. And stage three is my favorite because like we think we can outsmart our bodies and that is the farthest thing from the, our bodies are so much smarter than we are, so we start to have cravings and they get louder and louder, and then something tips them off, right? For me, it was my feeling of anxiety, feeling lonely, or we just can't handle our cravings anymore. And then it's, we give in and that's when we don't just have one cookie, we have the whole box of cookies, we eat everything. And immediately from that binge, we have the guilt, the shame, the self-loathing. Now not only do I have to lose all the weight that I initially wanted, I have to lose the weight that I just binged that I just got from binging. And what happens is we have extreme guilt and the only way to get rid of that guilt. Is to work it off, make up for it, start another diet and that Running more food rules and then we start back at stage one. So you are literally going in a circle around and around. And that's why so many people like they, they feel like they can't get out of it because they aren't able to cut that cord. You know what I mean?

Angie:

Yeah. Because they're trying to solve that problem with restriction and your body can only be restricted for so long, and then the, your own bo body's natural instincts will kick in. Which will then lead to more eating and more of the same thing.

Kelly:

We're solving, we're trying to solve the problem with the exact thing that caused it. So there are a couple, like I mentioned, umbrellas that I like to call them as to why people binge. So the first one is restriction driven, and that is when. You are not giving your body the proper fuel. And the proper nutrients and the proper macros and balanced plates, whatever it is to fuel your body to the best of its ability. Yep. That is what happens when, like a perfect example is we wake up, we have to be good, right? We have our egg white omelet. we, for lunch, we have our grilled chicken salad. Maybe we have an apple if we're lucky. And then it's like we get home from work and we are. Hangry. We are losing our minds. We are irritable and all of a sudden something happens and we're like, why am I even bothering? Let's eat.

Angie:

Yeah. And it's

Kelly:

a biological response. To the lack of food we are giving ourselves. And I know you're a big proponent of this, but like we need to have carbs.

Angie:

Yeah. Yes.

Kelly:

Especially as runners when Oh my gosh. And even just like. Thinking about it in that sense, when you are running and the amount of extra fuel you need before and after, and as you're the professional on this during, depending if it's like a long endurance run, right? If you are not giving your body that your body is going to get that food in one way or another. And it's usually in the form of cookies, chips, ice cream, pretzels. You're standing in front of the fridge like shoveling shredded cheese. And. Immediately having that guilt and shame after. Yeah. And I shredded cheese, like falling all

Angie:

over the floor.

Kelly:

Literally. Yeah. like I'll never forget when I was living at home, my dad walked downstairs and I was just like eating cold pasta from the Tupperware and People, your listeners, right? You may be like, okay, Kel, that's crazy. that isn't my level. You don't have to be like face first in the fridge, like Garfield, right? Like the orange couch shoveling the food. If you can still have a really terrible relationship with food and exercise.

Angie:

Yeah. If you

Kelly:

are. Eating, to have the perfect body and then running to work off what you just ate. So there's, it's a really, a lot of people see it as black and white, but it's actually a very large spectrum of what it can look like for people. Yeah,

Angie:

I agree. And I think that there's a lot of people that fall into this trap when they start signing up for long, longer races as well, like half marathons and marathons. A lot of people like you. Sign up for the, like that first race to lose weight, right? They're like, I need to lose weight, so I need something to keep me motivated. If I sign up for this race, then I will have something on the calendar that will make me go out and do the thing. And so what they do is they are trying to train for a longer race, make their body do something harder than they've ever done before. And restricting their food because they think they're still in that calorie mentality, right? Of this is gonna be great. I'm just gonna keep eating the same amount or even less. And then running more. I'm gonna be burning like a thousand extra calories a day. I'm gonna be putting myself in a huge deficit, and that's gonna lead me to the body that I want. And in reality, it needs to complete, burnout and failure because you're not giving your body what it needs. And like you said. Your body's always going to stimulate you to get what you need. And a lot of people do end up binging and eating a lot and they're like, I just don't understand why I have all of these sugar cravings. This is so weird. It's be, and I'm, I tell them it's because you're not giving your body what it actually needs. And so it, it's going to give you those cravings for that fast sugar in order to get into your bloodstream to try to satisfy some of the deficits that you are creating. A hundred percent. Yeah.

Kelly:

And we talked about. This when you were on my podcast and oh my gosh, that was such an incredible conversation. But even I'll, this was probably like at this point like a month or two ago, but I was at the gym and it was just like one of those days I had a crazy morning. I didn't get to eat. I was doing back squats and I was like. My head was foggy, I was exhausted, my numbers were like really low. And then a week later I had breakfast. I went to the gym to do the same back squats. I was able to add 25 more pounds. Yeah. Do multiple more reps. And I just felt so much more fueled and energized. And just so much better. And it's oh, what's the difference? very, like I, I ate, I had carbs, I had fat, I had protein before. I did that strenuous exercise. And I'm sure it's very similar with running.

Angie:

Absolutely. And I think that when we under fuel, when we don't give our body what we need because we're restricting it, whether or not you're restricting, because I think that some people do it unconsciously. some people restrict on purpose because they want to lose weight. They wanna lose fat. And then I think that there's other people that just don't realize how much extra they need to eat, especially if they're training for a longer race, like a half or a full, there's a, it's a significant amount, like you have to eat a lot more food to keep your body fueled, especially like you were saying before and after. Like your body needs that fuel right away. it needs the fuel to go out to run and then also needs to refuel right afterwards. And when we're restricting or we're not refueling that tank, it's going to just. It messes with our hormones, basically like the science behind it, right? Is that it messes with our hormones and your body's going to be hungrier throughout the day.

Kelly:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. You're literally like trying to get gas from an empty tank. 100%. so that's like the restriction side of it. Yeah. And then the two other umbrellas that we really dive into is, it's emotionally driven. It is, you are, whether it's, you are trying to like cope, get comfort, you're trying to numb, avoid. not look at something. Because what happens is when we have really uncomfortable feelings, thoughts, or emotions, they almost like bubble up in our body, right? And so many of us were taught. Walk it off, don't talk about it. Shut up and smile. and a lot of us don't know how to name process, but most importantly deal with our emotions without letting them like completely take over, right? So what happens is we don't want to feel these feelings. So what do we do? We shovel it down with food. It is easier for our brain to notice something tangible. So what I mean by that is like rather than, okay, why? What were you feeling? What's going on in your body? what's the emotion? Rather than dealing with that.'cause nobody wants to talk about that stuff, wants to look at that. Your brain would much rather say, wow. you know you're a failure yet again. You just ate 14 cookies when you weren't supposed to because that is something you can actually see, feel, and like derive guilt from, rather than looking at what's going on underneath. So if you are someone who struggles with emotionally eating, or you notice you eat when you're lonely or sad or anxious, or you like eat at night when the house is asleep or whatever it is. The one thing I'm gonna say is. A great starting point is to just take a step back and if you aren't hungry, ask yourself, okay, what is it that I want food to give me right now? Because usually it's comfort, happiness, joy, peace. Getting rid of feelings of loneliness, like I said before. But we have to realize that food is not going to give us any of that. Yes, it will as we're eating, like for those first couple minutes, but then as soon as we're done. We still have the same stress on top of the guilt of everything that just happened. So it's more coming at yourself with curiosity rather than anger, shame, and judgment, because those are the biggest emotions that drive binging. So you eat, you hate yourself, you're pissed at yourself, you're ashamed. Guess. You're just going to keep eating because the next question is why am I even bothering? Screw it, I'll just start over tomorrow. I already screwed up. Because so many of us who struggle with a not great relationship with food, we live in that all or nothing mentality. If I'm gonna be bad, then I'm gonna be really bad.

Angie:

Yeah. and it's also. Yeah. I think it's also like your brain wanting to find evidence for why you feel this way too. Like what, going back to what you were saying about you have some sort of like guilt or anger or shame or something, and instead of digging in and trying to actually find the root cause of that, you're like, let me just eat and now I can be upset at myself for eating. it's like this feedback loop that you're giving your brain evidence for why this. Why you deserve to feel this way or why you feel this way, so you don't have to dig into some of the more uncomfortable stuff correct and the uncomfortable stuff. Guess what? It stays there.

Kelly:

So nothing ever. gets changed. Yeah. And yes, we've tried, as I mentioned, the diets, the keto, the noom, the Weight Watchers, whatever it is. Yeah. But again, that's nothing more than a bandaid. Yep. Because yes, we may start off losing weight, but then especially if you are an athlete and you're a runner, you are. Getting injured, you're burning out, you're not fueling yourself, you're bing. So it's extremely, it's in this like cycle that we just go round and around in.

Angie:

Yeah. And the other thing I want to point out too is yes there are these uncomfortable emotions like guilt and shame and all these other things, but a lot of people that I've talked to also just eat out of boredom. Because they don't, nothing else to do and like they don't realize that is emotional eating. Bored, like boredom is a feeling that you're trying to just fill, and so you fill that with food.

Kelly:

Yes.

Angie:

And I

Kelly:

love that you said that because a lot of people say I eat when I'm bored because I am. I'm on the east coast. I am near New York. go. Hustle, hustle. People struggle to be bored, people struggle to rest. Yes. We always think that we have to go. Must be productive. And even if we're deciding to rest, The only thing that's going on our mind is just like the scroll of the to-do list. I shouldn't be doing this. I have to do X, y, z, blah, blah, blah. And

Angie:

Yep.

Kelly:

Again, we get those feelings of being bored and not being comfortable. It is Okay. To be bored, to have nothing to do to rest and be okay with it. And the more you fight it, then we look for food. Yep. Yeah. Bored is such a big one.

Angie:

Yeah. And it's so hard. And I think that's what's leading to more I'm even noticing it in myself, like with the phones, like with the scrolling and things like that.'cause like I'm not binging on food, but I'm my. Thumb is binging with these damn little TikTok, not tiktoks, but the reels. I don't really go on TikTok as much'cause I'm old, but you save yourself. It's totally, it's fine. But it's that, it's those like small hits of dopamine that are totally, keeping us in these habits that like, I'm literally sitting there I should not be doing this. Why am I doing this right now? And I feel like that's the same feedback loop that's happening when it comes to eating. Oh, a hundred percent.

Kelly:

And Angela,

Angie:

I

Kelly:

have I have an app actually that. It's like you figure out what times you don't wanna go on social.'cause like you use the screen time on Apple and it's dismiss for today. Yeah. I have never not pressed the dismiss button. Yeah. So this, I have on the highest level I can't even get in. there is no. Why So I actually like it'cause it forced me to not

Angie:

do that.

Kelly:

So Yeah. It

Angie:

locks you out. very similar. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All right. What's the third reason that we binge? Oh yeah,

Kelly:

absolutely. So we talked about restriction driven, emotionally driven, and then the next one is habit driven. So I feel like looking back, once I started like picking it up, the, it did also become a habit. And if you are sitting there listening, you're like, okay, I do all three. Believe me, they are all intertwined with each other. Again, it's not black and white where it's I do it because restriction. I do it because it's a habit. But what happens? So for example, when I think of like a habit driven, I think like people who eat at night, right? person who has young kids or whatever, they clean the kitchen, they put the kids to bed, they sit on the couch and immediately it. Reality TV and ice cream or chips or whatever, and yes, that can start from restriction. Because if you're not eating enough, you are going to be hungry and hangry and all those wonderful things at night. That habit also comes from continuously having that cue of kids are asleep. I'm seeing this as like finally I can just sit down and relax. And as a mom, I know that feeling, right? Yeah, absolutely. As you do too. And then it's like the habit of couch relaxation tv, those are your cues. And immediately You want that reward of eating. Yep. If you're noticing, it has become a habit over time. I think one of the things, if you're, if you use food as a form of self-care, we have to recognize, we have to have different forms of self-care during the day. Because if you are not like feeling happy or enjoying what you're doing or having a little me time, of course when you start eating, if that's the only thing that's truly making you happy, you're not gonna be, wanna be able to stop. Who would, so really finding like little pockets of time. And it doesn't need to be this huge, spend a ton of money, go get like$150 massage, Go sit outside on your porch for 10 minutes. Call somebody you love. Just these little tiny things. for me, my, I love taking like hot showers to the point my skin borderline melts off. that's my thing at night. It calms me down. I get in my pajamas, but then like in the morning, I make sure that I have a really nice like iced coffee where I'm either. Sitting outside or catching up on sports radio.'cause I love sports and it's like the kids are in daycare, it's my time. But if I didn't have those two things, if the only thing that was making me happy was cookies, guess what? I would constantly be eating cookies. Yeah. So that's one. And then another thing is to change your cue. So if you're someone sitting on the couch, you immediately want to eat. Then maybe it can be as simple as one go to bed. Two watch TV in a just as simple as going into a different room, right? and while obviously it's a little bit more nuanced than that, those can be really good starting points. If we're noticing it's becoming a habit.

Angie:

Yeah, because we are creatures of habit. Absolutely. And the location alone is one of, that can be a trigger for people.

Kelly:

100%. And our brain likes to be efficient, right? Yes. it wants to move as quickly as possible. It likes its routine. So guess what? Goodnight kids. Close the door, go downstairs. Routine. Bravo for me. Put bravo on the couch and then eating. So it's just immediately like switching things up a little bit. Yeah. To not have that cue go off and the alarm bells go off where it's oh, time to eat.

Angie:

Yeah, absolutely. So we can change some of those habitual things that might trigger that. The, the habit of binge eating essentially. What are some other simple things that we can do to start to rewire some of these thought patterns around food and body image and restriction? I know that's a huge topic and a huge question, but like, where do we start with all of this? if you know that you're suffering with binge eating, like where, like what would you tell me to do if I am coming to you with this problem?

Kelly:

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's a ton of things, but I, the one thing I really People to start with is practice noticing when you fall into the all or nothing mentality. Because what happens really with a lot of people when it comes to eating is like you start to eat whether it's okay, and I always use cookies. I really need to have more variety in my food cookie. I

Angie:

mean, who wouldn't use cookies? I feel like I know right? Cookies is the right way to do this, right? You

Kelly:

have one or two cookies you are like, oh, I shouldn't have done that. I'm being bad. And immediately you're like, okay, I'm gonna start over tomorrow. your brain says if I'm gonna start over tomorrow, yeah. You better guess I'm getting my freaking money's worth right now. And immediately you're going to eat all of them because you almost gave yourself like a time limit on when you can have these cookies.

Angie:

Yeah. Your

Kelly:

brain doesn't know that You can actually drive to the store and go get more cookies tomorrow. Because you're telling yourself you can't, so your brain thinks, oh, all the cookies in the world are gone. So something so simple as changing your thoughts around food in the simple sense of, I can have this food any time I want, so let's change it up. Let's think of pizza, right? If I am, pizza was always like a big thing for me. Something I always struggled with. If I'm having pizza. With my family on a Saturday night, right? And immediately like I'm feeling full. I don't know if I should keep going. The guilt starts creep creeping in. I can feel my all or nothing mentality, just recognizing, oh wait, I can actually have pizza tomorrow. I can also, if I really wanted to wake up Monday, drive first thing when I get up and go get some. And. When you recognize the abundance of food around you, it loses that, oh my gosh, I must eat everything now mentality. So that's one of the things I would start with. I think the second one is just really become aware of the way you're speaking. And I'm obviously, we put ourselves like we are our own worst critics. It's, it is terrible how we speak to each other. So recognizing that. And coming at it with more of a neutral stance, right? I what? Nothing drives me more crazy when people say oh, you just love your body and body positivity. I think 24 7 body positivity is honestly like complete garbage. I'm with you on that for sure. come on. And for the

Angie:

roots of it are good, but the way that it's implemented is not the idea's. Good. Yeah. Is

Kelly:

anyone walking around loving themselves 24 7? No. Something so simple as I may not love how I look today. But I deserve self-respect. I deserve to treat myself with kindness and how I just start like looking around. And how many times do you say I'm being so bad today. Oh, I have to be good today. Oh, I messed up. I want you to recognize the pressure language that you're putting on yourself. So what I mean by that is like. The pressure if oh, I'm being good today. You are putting pressure on yourself to continue being good, and you're gonna get to a point where it's either restriction or somebody pisses you off or someone cuts you off in traffic and you can't take it anymore. Yeah. So you fall off the deep end. Or we say oh, I'm being bad today. Let's eat. Let's get margaritas. Yeah. I'm being bad. Yeah. Or the cheat meal. Yeah. yeah. If I'm gonna be bad, guess what? If I have to be good tomorrow, I'm gonna be really bad today. Just noticing when we're talking in very extremes and practice neutrality. again, we could go, there's so much more, but the mo, like in the beginning you have to start being aware Yeah. Of the way you're thinking and the way you're acting. And we don't realize how much we waffle between both end of the extremes. And the way we think and the way we speak. It's not about the food that, that is driving us. To have these eating patterns that we do.

Angie:

Yeah. You mentioned the all or nothing mentality in there quite a few times. Oh yeah. Do you think that is really like one of the biggest core drivers of all of this?

Kelly:

I think a lot of people who struggle with binging and emotional eating, they are overachievers, right? Type a hardworking, and that is if you look at your life Usually you'll see the all or nothing mentality In, in, in different facets of your life. Yeah. I bet that makes

Angie:

it so much harder too, right? Because you've been so successful in other areas and you're like, why can't I figure this area out?

Kelly:

Hundred percent. Yeah. Like it's the career, it's the family. It's the friend, it's the home. It's the beautiful like lawn in your front yard. It's like, why don't I know how to eat? And it's because you are overachieving, perfectionist. I have to do everything right. I have to be perfect. And the zero moderation.

Angie:

When

Kelly:

you aren't capable of having moderation. You're gonna go off the deep end when it comes to having that one cookie or going to that barbecue or going to vacation, or with runners too, it's okay, I just had this, so I need to go run 5, 6, 7 miles, whatever it is. That is the all or nothing mentality and action. And we don't even realize it.

Angie:

Absolutely. A lot of people in our audience are in midlife, and I know you're not there yet. you're still in that wonderful young baby having life part of your life, which is great. But one of the big things that women start to see in perimenopause and menopause are these hormonal shifts and changes in their way, in the way that their body holds on to weight. And a lot of times. Women that maybe had an okay relationship with their body and exercise and food, now all of a sudden they're doing these things and that used to work, and all of a sudden their body's not responding the same and their body's holding onto weight. And so many women fall back into those old patterns of restriction and let me just do more, let me just push harder that we've been conditioned with. So what would you say to kind of those women that had. a healthier relationship with their body and with food, maybe this midlife period that we're going through, how can that. Maybe be an opportunity to create a healthier relationship with food moving forward.

Kelly:

Yeah, I love that. And while I am not there yet, many, in my community, we have like thousands of members, right? I have people in their forties, fifties, sixties, seventies Yeah. Who no longer binge. And I think one of. Biggest things is that we focus on is our hunger and fullness, right? Sometimes it comes down to, so simply learning how your body feels when it's hungry, and learning how it feels when it's full, and practicing eating and not eating. Be like in between those two and obviously. If you've struggled for a while, you're like, I don't even know how to tell when we feel full. It does take time. It does take patience. But also too, making sure that your meals are balanced. Making sure we're having protein. Yeah. Realizing that carbs are not the enemy and so many people, like I, I'll never forget, we have one woman in our community. She's going through menopause and she ended up losing like. 55 pounds and no longer binging. And she was like, it's because like I learned how to fuel my body without punishing it. Yes. And she would make sure that she had carbs with every meal, fat and protein. But when you're focusing on your hunger fullness, you can actually balance your blood sugar a lot easier rather than. Freezing and snacking and And the, not eating for six or seven hours, which puts your blood sugar completely out of whack.

Angie:

exactly. And it's so interesting though too. and this kind of goes back to our emotional relationship with food, because when people come into, my world, which I'm sure is like very similar to the ones people in yours, and you're actually talking to them about. Nourishing their body and fueling their body and giving their body what they need. A lot of women get scared, like there's genuine fear that comes up. Like I literally am telling you, eat more. And they're like, but what if I gain weight? Like they're afraid to eat more. And it is a real fear.

Kelly:

It is such a real fear. Yeah. And

Angie:

sometimes

Kelly:

the sounds, so sometimes I need to like just. Put up a mirror for them and I will ask them like Is what you've been doing? Has that worked? Yeah. A lot of people, it's like, if I give up tracking Calorie counting macros Yep. Then I will never stop eating. Yep. It's no, your, I don't wanna wait to say the word, like your psychotic and your obsession with those numbers Are the things that have led you to do that. and it's so funny you say that this fear and what we actually like to do is literally like habitation, like exposure therapy, right? Yeah. And letting people when they're hungry, actually allow themselves to eat what they want, right? Let's say you want. Pizza for lunch. And or chicken cutlet sandwich. But of course you're getting the grilled chicken salad. What if you know you're hungry, you sit down for lunch, you get the two slices of pizza, you allow yourself to have it without guilt. And you are able to have the process of learning to listen to your body when you're full. Incredible things are gonna happen. One, you are going to most likely eat less because you're able to recognize when you're full. You are not feeling guilty, so you're not eating more because you're fully allowing yourself to have it. And then between that meal and whenever your next one is, you are actually not thinking about food because you gave your brain the mental satisfaction rather than Forcing a grilled chicken salad and then looking around all day for more food. Because your brain's okay, that sucked. That's not what I want. I wanna keep eating. Yeah. So when you put yourself in those experiences, it's almost like you may have that fear until you actually see the process like unfolding right in front of you.

Angie:

Yeah. when women in my world. express that to me. I do something similar. I basically say, okay, exactly what you said, has it been working right? Like with what you've been doing, has it been working? And then I get them to commit to a time period. I say, okay, what if we just try this for two weeks? What if we just try this for a month and just see how you feel? You can always go back to the way that you were doing things if you want to. But let's just. Commit to a time period where you're going to try to, connect to your body, actually fuel yourself, allow yourself to have different things and see how you feel afterwards. Because once women start to allow themselves and give themselves that permission, they're never going back.

Kelly:

Yeah. it's such, it's a, it's such a, like a completely different ballgame and you're like, yeah. I cannot believe. And now, like I'm sure you members YouTube, they love just like pointing out diet culture or like secretly laughing when their friends are just like commiserating how much they hate themselves. And it's everywhere. And you start to notice, you're like, wow, I've actually been brainwashed for a very long time.

Angie:

Yeah. Yeah. It's really wild when you look around and see how prevalent it is in so many aspects of our culture that we don't even realize.

Kelly:

Yeah, and it's funny, like I am obviously, as I'm pregnant right now. I'm around like 19, 20 ish weeks. And I've gotten a lot of dms of okay, how are you gonna lose the baby weight? How are you eating? How are you? And I'm like, this is my third kid. I'm just going to continue to instill the tools that I teach every day and learn how to fuel my body and listen to my hunger fullness. And. I will go back to feeling my best because I'm not going to be killing myself in the gym, tracking every single macro or whatever it may be. And people are like, wait, what?

Angie:

Wait a second, huh? Yeah. Yeah. I know. Imagine you actually like your body and take care of it.

Kelly:

I know, right?

Angie:

A totally different world. Kelly, this, conversation has been so enlightening. Before we wrap up, is there anything else that you would like to leave our listeners with?

Kelly:

Yeah. I think no matter like what you are struggling with or how old you are or how long you've had skin in the game of like binging or a terrible relationship with food, you can 100% change. And a lot of people think you need, the. Therapists and the new meal plans and the whatever. And while those are all well and good, change starts from within and it is 100% possible to change. A lot of people feel like we've been doomed, or this is just how it is, or we're always gonna be like this, but There is a ripple effect to when you change and when you heal your relationship with food, when you heal, your relationship with exercise, the ripple effect of the other aspects of your life that improve as well as the people you love.

Angie:

Yeah. So

Kelly:

I just want you to recognize that no matter where you are, you can change. Even if you feel like there is no way out right now.

Angie:

Absolutely. And I think that really all starts with trust by the sounds of it, right? learning how to trust your body. Again, learning how to trust yourself around food because I think that so many of us have been conditioned not to trust ourselves. We've been given these food rules. And you've been taught no. Even if you're hungry, don't eat. Because then you're gonna go over your set amount of calories for the day. And so we've been taught to not trust ourselves, do that. Oh my gosh. I love how you're like, what's

Kelly:

the last thing? I'm like, okay, I know it's okay. It's okay.

Angie:

This is what happens. Sometimes we're all like, yes.

Kelly:

And then I just opened up a huge topic. Yeah. So we're gonna talk for another hour and a half. Yeah. no, but I, when it comes to the trust, like I like to remind people like. Look around and whether you are a parent or a caregiver or children or you're a teacher, you like saw kids at the mall the other day. I like, have you ever seen kids have one bite of pizza and then put the pizza down? Or get ice cream and have the first scoop and be like, okay, mommy, I'm done. Or Yeah, no thanks. I'm not hungry. I'll never forget when I was binging. I was like, how is my 6-year-old niece just like stopping eating with this pizza? I want you to recognize that you had that as well. You had those cues and they have never gone away. They have not gone anywhere. What happens is that volume in your body of that self-trust, that discernment, that being able to listen to your cues, it got smaller and that volume got turned down due to diet culture. People commenting on. you getting seconds, your weight, aren't you supposed to run that off or, just any experience that you had growing up around food in your body. I want you to walk away with knowing that those cues and that discernment and that trust in yourself is still inside of you. yeah. I love what you said about trusting your body. Yeah. It's the only thing, like it drives me crazy. People are the first to shame their bodies, pinch their fat, put it down. And berate it. And it's this is the only thing keeping you here. Yeah. This is literally the only thing keeping you

Angie:

here. Yeah. But people do with running too, I think that's why these things are so intertwined because. You've been taught to ignore what your body's trying to tell you in running too. And this is the other thing where I try to tell help people. I'm like, no. that means you need to slow down. when you feel that way, you need to slow down. But they've been taught, no, I just have to keep pushing harder. That means I'm doing it right. because they have this, no pain, no gain mentality. there's all of these different, mentalities and things that we've been taught throughout the years that maybe apply. to one situation, but don't apply well to others. And then we take'em and we apply'em to everything. all or nothing. No pain, no gain. Yeah. Can be helpful sometimes, right? Like these, it's not like those things are always bad. They can be helpful at sometimes we just, yeah. Have to be careful how we apply them. A hundred

Kelly:

percent. I love it.

Angie:

Awesome. Kelly, thank you so much for this. Let our listeners know where can they find you if they wanna learn more and connect with you.

Kelly:

Yeah, of course. So you can find me on Instagram, Kelly l Wellness and my podcast, which. Dr. Angie was on as well, and it was a thing, the Food Freedom Society podcast. But yeah, send me a dm, let us know what you liked and what your takeaway was with this episode. And Angie, thank you so much for having me. It's always so much fun hanging with you.

Angie:

Absolutely. And of course, we'll put all of those links in the show notes. So if you guys wanna connect with Kelly, check out the show notes and send her a DM today.