Real Life Runners with Angie and Kevin Brown

423: How To Enjoy Running More

• Angie Brown

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How to Enjoy Running More: Overcoming Pain, Letting Go of Judgment, and Finding the Fun in Every Run

In this week’s episode, Kevin and I dive into something every runner wants more of—joy in running. Because let’s be real, not every run feels amazing. Some days are light and fun, and others feel like a grind. But with the right approach, running can be something you actually look forward to.

We share some of our own stories (the good, the tough, and the funny!) and talk through practical ways you can bring more enjoyment into your miles. Here’s a little sneak peek of what we cover:

  •  Eliminating pain – Strength training and mobility aren’t just “extras”—they’re the keys to feeling good in your runs.
  • Letting go of judgment – You are not “too slow.” You’re a runner, exactly as you are.
  • Creating a plan that fits you – Adjusting speed work, long runs, and strength sessions so that training feels sustainable and fun.

At the end of the day, running doesn’t have to feel like punishment—it should build you up, body and mind.

We also share some exciting resources to help you along the way, including our new secret podcast (yep, you heard that right!) and our 30-Day Strong Runner Challenge—a simple way to start combining running and strength so you can enjoy running more, with less pain and more confidence.

👉 Tune in now and let’s make running something you truly love again.


02:25 The Reality of Enjoying Running

05:26 The Inconsistency and Injury Cycle

12:20 The Hamster Wheel of Chasing PRs

20:18 Consistency is Key: Health and Running

27:43 Making Running More Enjoyable

29:45 Understanding Discomfort vs. Pain in Running

30:42 The Importance of Strength Training

32:22 Letting Go of Judgment

37:39 Finding Enjoyment in Running

42:18 Creating a Personalized Running Plan

46:08 The Non-Negotiable Need for Strength Training

50:15 Listening to Your Body's Signals

51:45 Making Running Fun and Enjoyable

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Angie:

What's up, runners? Today we're talking about how to enjoy running more, and yes, I'm just gonna go ahead and keep this in the intro because Kevin and I are a little loopy. We're recording this a little late at night, so who knows what's gonna come out in today's episode, so stay tuned.

Kevin:

What's up, runners?

Speaker:

Oh wow. You brought it up. I know it. What's up, runners? Welcome back to the show. Or I don't know what's going on with us, but let's go with it.

Kevin:

yeah. No,'cause it's all about joy and that's the whole point of the thing and so yeah, having a little laugh fest at the beginning I think is a good start.

Angie:

Yeah, so I was, oh, hold on. Our daughter's calling us. Pause. And we're back. Okay. So we are here to talk about how to enjoy running more today. That's the topic. And this spawns from spawns? No, this spawns from a post that I decided to put up on Instagram today. And the question was, I put it up on my Instagram story. If you're not following us yet, head over to Instagram at real life runners and hit that follow button because we're much more entertaining over there, I think, than we are on the podcast. But who's to say we're probably entertaining in both worlds?

Kevin:

I'm super entertaining on the podcast.

Angie:

Yeah, obviously that's'cause you just don't post on Instagram.

Kevin:

That's why I'm more entertaining on the podcast.

Angie:

anywho, I put up a question on my Instagram story today. And the question was, which of the following is most important to you right now? And the options were to run without pain, to enjoy running or to feel better running. And the majority of people that answered, and I had quite like, I had a lot of people answered this poll. Most of, I think it was more than 50% last time I ch I looked was, yeah, it was a majority to enjoy running.

Kevin:

Yeah. So we decided, let's do a podcast about it. How can we help you all enjoy running more? So that's really our topic of today. Excellent. Which is great.'cause I love running and I love talking about running. it's just, it's a whole joy experience to me from all angles.

Angie:

Yeah. And I'm a mix, so like most of the time I enjoy running. I would say I'm just gonna be a hundred percent honest.

Kevin:

you're over here. Are I mixed?

Angie:

You're over here laughing. I enjoy running. I would say, for the most part, but there's always those days where you don't enjoy it. And I think you have those days too. And I think that maybe that's not on our outline here, but that's probably our number one thing to take away, is you're not supposed to enjoy it. All the time. all, 100% of the time, every day on every run.

Kevin:

I enjoyed most of my run today. I did not enjoy the alarm going off at five to start my run. I sat on the couch for a, I think three to five minutes debating whether I should just fall asleep on the couch or go like I just

Speaker:

did. Yeah.

Kevin:

Or go out for a run, like as soon as I was out, not as soon five minutes into my run, I was good. I was into it and then now I'm running. But yeah, it was a little rough trying to just tie my shoes.

Angie:

Yeah. And I think that we all have that experience and I think that needs to be the number one thing that we remember is that you don't have to enjoy it 100% of the time to still enjoy running. And I think everyone would probably agree with that.

Kevin:

you can't enjoy anything 100% of the time. there's whatever it is, you're. Favorite meal chocolate you're gonna get. Yeah, I was gonna say chocolate 100%

Angie:

of the time. no.

Kevin:

I was gonna take that to Willy Wonka'cause that big kid fell into the river and got sucked up the thing he did because he loved chocolate too much. That was the issue. And then you're gonna get sucked up a tube and then the oompaloompas are gonna come out and sing. And so you can't enjoy the thing 100% of the time.'cause the oompaloompas will show up.

Angie:

But if you eat it in moderation, will you? Still be able to enjoy it a hundred percent of the time.

Kevin:

Yes. Because then, okay, so if you don't overdo it, as long as you don't overdo.

Angie:

Yeah, but I think that running is different, even if you're doing it in moderation and if you're following a training plan that's right for you, there's still going to be some runs that you might not enjoy all the time.

Kevin:

Yes. But in moderation, I think it's more likely that you're going to enjoy most of the. Okay. I don't agree. Don't if we're getting to a hundred. Yeah. But I feel like if you aren't trying to go out there and pound it every single day, you have a greater chance of a higher percentage of your runs bringing you joy.

Angie:

okay. So let's jump in here and dig into how to make running, I don't wanna say more fun, but how to be able to enjoy it more funner. Funner.

Kevin:

Is that what you wanted to say instead? No. Oh, okay.

Angie:

Did you wanna use real words? I did.

Kevin:

Okay, fine.

Angie:

And all of a sudden my humor is gone. Dang. And I'm just like, okay, now we're gonna just finish the episode and be go to bed.

Speaker:

Alright, fine. Yeah,

Angie:

it's funny because I was gonna tell a little story at the beginning of like, why. I'm tired and why we're loopy and it's just, I, we just jumped in. Instead, you decided

Kevin:

it was too long to tell the story and so we skipped right over

Angie:

it. No, I just, I was outta town last week and traveling a lot and kind of what I went did last week was a bit of a draining type of thing and I feel like I'm still recovering from all of that. And so Kevin, we are gonna record the podcast a little bit earlier in the evening. And, I went ahead and fell asleep on the couch accidentally. Yeah.

Kevin:

So I went ahead and outlined the podcast. Yeah. Perfect. And now we're good to go. And

Angie:

now we're good. All right. So how about you start us off today, since you're the one that outlined the podcast today? Okay.

Kevin:

So I think that a lot of people get into running for essentially like health purposes. Like they, they want to get fit, they want to just generally feel healthy and think that running is going to be a good means to, that ends, and then one of the following scenarios. Plays out. They start pushing too hard, which leads to this inconsistency and or injury cycle.

Angie:

Why do you think they push too hard?

Kevin:

Because they're not sure how to do it. And so they're like, I want to exercise. I want to get in good shape. I'm going to get in good shape faster. And I'm gonna get in better shape if I just go out and push. Yeah. But the pushing constantly leads to one. It's not that fun. Yeah. Definitely not. Like sometimes it's fun, but it's rarely fun. Yeah. And you get the inconsistency injury cycle.

Angie:

Tell the story about cross country practice today.

Kevin:

Oh, so we've had kids on the team. Literally, it was a senior who's been running for us for years. The number of times that we've told the kids that your easy run should feel comfortable, you should be able to carry on a conversation. You should finish and be like, all right, that was fine. I could probably go out and do more if I even wanted to. And we've told that all the time. We have a new assistant coach. She went out and was running with the kids on the team, and she kept being like, why don't you just slow down a little bit? You could, we could all run together. just come and run my pace. This is gonna be fine. Just run this pace. And they finished the run. They were chatting the whole time. And they finished the run. They were like. That was weird. I don't feel exhausted. I think I've just been pushing just a little bit every time I go out. Yeah, and it's not like they were pushing so hard every time, but they just literally never let themself be comfortable on a run.

Angie:

Yeah, and I think there's a lot of runners that fall into this trap, like maybe you're one of them because you listen to this podcast, you're like, okay, they said that I need to run easy. I need to make this feel. easy, et cetera. And, it's really hard to do that. And I think that this is one of the first things that we really help people with when they join the Real Life Runners team also, is to help them understand what easy pace actually feels like. Because I do think that most runners, even those ones that are trying to make it feel easy, push just a little bit over that because it is. Uncomfortable in the beginning to, I think, mentally accept that it's okay to do this right? Because I don't think, maybe for some people there is the physical challenge of slowing down because for some people. It can alter your gait pattern a little bit and it can feel awkward in your body, so that can be a little challenging, but I think for most people it's more of a mental barrier that they have of really buying into this idea that running easier and not feeling tired after my runs is actually going to help me improve as a runner overall.

Kevin:

there are actual physical benefits that you're gonna get from running at an easier pace that you're not going to get when you strain yourself. Whether it's what

Angie:

even It's just a, even if it's just a little bit,

Kevin:

yes. Even if you're just pushing just a little bit, you're still missing out on just

Angie:

a little bit. Thank

Kevin:

you. Just, you're missing out on some of the benefits.

Angie:

You said you wanted my voices. I

Kevin:

did. You have so many of them. I'm sure it, we, everybody prays. Brace themselves.'cause you know she's gonna turn British partway through this podcast. I hope so. Oh, it's coming. I hope we, hopefully we keep up our UK listenership during that portion.

Angie:

If I do turn British at some point, you, it's coming. It's halfway this episode. Okay. I just have to preface that by saying it is out of love and respect and definitely not mocking. So I apologize if it's not a great British accent or if you don't love it. But it is. Truly out of just love and admiration because I love British people and the British accent,

Kevin:

that is entirely true. Yes. All of, because I spent

Angie:

a semester in London and I love it.

Kevin:

Yes. All of that is very true. Yeah. So yes, there's nothing offensive by it that it just, sometimes it comes out.

Angie:

Yes.

Kevin:

Alright.

Angie:

Which is funny because last week at my event I was hanging out with some people for the, from the uk and sometimes my British accent just comes. Comes out.

Kevin:

Oh, that's weird. I'm British also. no you're not. You're from Florida.

Speaker:

And I was like, oh, did they just notice that I did that? nobody said anything. But I definitely caught myself at one point because sometimes I just have voices that come out and,

Kevin:

everybody was saying, bye, you yelled, Cheerio. And we don't even say that. What are you talking about? God. Alright, let's see what else we got here. all right, so

Speaker:

we were talking about pushing just a little bit more

Kevin:

Uhhuh, so there's, that's one of the options. You getting into it for health reasons and you think to get more fit. I'm just gonna push just a little bit every time I go out there. Another option is, trying to read my own English here.

Speaker:

See, when it's not just me,

Kevin:

I sometimes my, I read over

Speaker:

Kevin's outline and I'm like, what are you seeing? What are these words here? What is happening?

Kevin:

So get into running, and you combine. Your increase of your exercise load with a decrease of your food intake. This is also a recipe for just feeling miserable all the time and likely the injury cycle, but also just feeling miserable all the time.

Angie:

So if. For those of you that need a Kevin translation, thank you, of increased exercise and decreased food, it's this idea of dieting on top of exercise, right? A lot of people when they get into running for health reasons, when you say quote unquote health reasons, a lot of people get into running to lose weight, or improve health markers in some way. And a lot of the times that for a lot of people, it means that they're overweight. Not always, of course. But their doctors often recommend that they start exercise and dieting. So they do both of these things simultaneously. So if you are both increasing your exercise level and restricting your calories, and you do at a extreme level, maybe not even what you might think is extreme, but it's a extreme change for your body. That can lead to really feeling crappy a lot of the time, not just on your runs, but in your daily life as well.

Kevin:

Yeah. if you're not eating enough, it's going to be really tough to get yourself out the door to run because you're like, I don't have the energy to go out and run.

Angie:

Because food provides energy and I think that this is one of the things that a lot of people forget because. We think we've been conditioned by the diet industry to believe that food leads to weight gain, and if we eat too much food, we will gain weight, which to an extent there is some truth to that statement. However, we also have to remember that food is energy. And so if we are restricting our calorie intake, we are also restricting the amount of available energy for us. So then if you're trying to increase your running, which is a very. Energy heavy type of activity. It's going to be hard for you to feel good on your runs if you don't have an energy source that you're pulling from. Excellent.

Kevin:

Yeah, so everybody's got these thoughts in their head. Coming from, I don't know, big diet culture. I like to lean into big carb culture and eat something and then go run. It's. It makes the running just all that much more enjoyable. Alright, third option. You get into running for health reasons and you start seeing these improvements. And so you start signing up for races and then you sign up for a race. You have fun with that. You're like, I should sign up for another one. You run faster in the next race, and then you're like, maybe I should sign up for a longer race. And now you're caught on this hamster wheel of chasing the next pr. I can always run a little bit faster than this. Maybe I could run a longer distance. Maybe I can now run that longer distance a little bit faster, and it just keeps going, which could be fun. That can even be fun for quite a while. But at some point you might realize that you're just endlessly chasing prs. That in theory, the time can always get just a little bit faster and the distance can always go just a little bit farther. It's still, it's just a little bit, again, I came back.

Angie:

Just a little. Okay. But the thing is that you know if that is your reason for running, if you're just out there to chase prs, and if you've been in running for a while, you understand that progression in running is not linear, your improvement is not linear. So there's going to be a time, especially at the beginning. Where you do make a lot of improvements, and so sometimes you make really big jumps in improvement at the beginning, but at some point that will plateau and sometimes you might even decline a little bit, especially if you got fell into the last trap that we just talked about of restricting your calories and trying to increase your running load, whether that's trying to run faster or trying to run longer, that improvement is gonna start to slow down. Or you might even go backwards and so you're gonna hit some races where. You don't hit the PR and then you feel yucky about it. You feel crappy about it. You feel down on yourself or frustrated or confused, and you're like, I don't know what just happened. Why am I not improving? And so if you're on this constant hamster wheel. Of just chasing prs, then that is going to suck a lot of the joy out of running because if you know you don't hit that pr, then all of a sudden the mind wants to go to, what was it all for?

Kevin:

Yes. Then I feel like I've wasted the last however many weeks or months even, and it. You're looking back, even if you enjoyed the training, you look back and you see all that training as a negative.

Angie:

But I think that part of the problem with chasing PRS is that people aren't necessarily enjoying the training and the process. They're simply looking for the results. And if you're only looking for results and you're not enjoying the process, that is a super easy way for that joy for you to not enjoy running.

Kevin:

Yeah, because. You're, you've skipped over process. Like you're just looking for end results. So whatever you do day to day is just the things you have to do. And it's okay that somewhere in your training are some things that you're like, I have to do this thing. It's not necessarily my most favorite thing. And we'll get to that later. But there are things that should go into your training plan, even if they're not your favorite thing.

Angie:

Yeah. I don't love waking up at five o'clock in the morning and going to meet my friends at five 30. I do love meeting my friends. I don't like that it's at five 30 in the morning, but. That is part of the deal, right? so there are aspects of it that I don't love. I also don't love running in 85 degree weather. It feels like 96, but again, that's part of running in Florida in the summertime. So there are going to be these aspects that we might not enjoy all of the time, but if we step back, we can say, yeah, but I still enjoy. This thing that I'm doing, and I still enjoy the process of all of it. And if not, then maybe it's a time to step back and reevaluate, which we're not really gonna talk about today. We're gonna focus more on how to help you enjoy the running more.

Kevin:

I feel like we've got podcast, I don't know, somewhere we do in our thing of, there's a

Angie:

recent one that we did about burnout. Yeah. it's, I would say within the last probably. 10 to 20 episodes. So I think this is 4 23, I think it's after episode 400. There's been like, episodes that we've done about burnout or if you've lost your running spark, your spark for running, you know what you can do about it. So you can go back and listen to those if that's how you're feeling. But going back to this idea of the process and not just focusing on the results and the prs. That is going to be the way to enjoy running more, because if you're just focusing on that outcome, it can, again, it's gonna be hard to enjoy it every single day that you have to get up and go out there and train. However, if you, so one of the things that I like to tell our athletes and the clients that we work with. Is that your goals are fantastic. It's fantastic for you to have a big goal, whether whether it's a PR in time or a PR in distance. You know the longest distance you've ever run, the fastest time you've ever run. Goals are great because goals help give you direction. They give you that lighthouse out in the distance. They help you to figure out how you wanna challenge yourself, and the goal determines the plan. Yeah. So the goal determines the plan, which is the process that you are going to follow in order to achieve that goal. So the key though is, and this is where a lot of people get goals wrong and get too attached to them, when you set a goal. You use that goal to create the process that you're going to follow. When you do that, you then have to release your attachment to that goal, and then the goal, the new goal, becomes to just execute the process. To just follow the plan that you've created or that a coach has created for you to help you achieve that outcome. Without attachment to the actual goal itself. Does that make sense? Yeah, no. Or should I phrase that differently?

Kevin:

No, that makes sense to me. Okay. I've heard that a lot of, yeah. You, so

Angie:

you set the goal to create the process, and then you release the goal and the goal becomes to follow the process.

Kevin:

Yeah. Yeah. the key is making sure that process gets you to the goal. And

Angie:

in theory,

Kevin:

and when you, in theory and when you step back and you look at the overall process, you're like, that seems like an enjoyable process. And that's part of where the enjoyment comes. Yes. Is whatever your goal is, there are, there's a lot more than one training plan method that will get you there. you Google it, there's a thousand of them. there are lots of options for how to get to it. You need to find one that actually works for you. You need to find your enjoyable plan.

Angie:

And like I think that it sounds like, for example, Kevin loves running ultra marathons. He loves running the his new thing, I shouldn't say new'cause it's been a couple of years now, but it's

Kevin:

relatively new'cause I've been running forever. Yeah.

Angie:

So your current. love is Ultra Marathon. Should I that Sure. Yeah. Say that. That's a good way of

Kevin:

phrasing it.

Angie:

I think it would be really cool to, like, when I watch Kevin out there running like on the trails and doing this huge thing, I think to myself, wow, that would be really cool to run a hundred miles. I. Maybe I could do it. And then I think about the process that is required in order to accomplish that goal. And that sounds awful to me. So I know that I, at this point in my life, am not ready to run an ultra marathon because the process does not sound fun to me.

Kevin:

Yeah. Yeah. So then it just, it basically wipes the goal. Off the table, right? You're like, oh, that goal doesn't make any sense.

Angie:

could I do it probably right? But I, if I'm gonna be miserable the whole time, why would I do that to myself?

Kevin:

Yeah. you've said the same thing about a marathon is, what it'd take to do a marathon? Yeah. To get a result that would, that you would be satisfied with. And you're not willing to put in that work right now. And so that's not a goal, right? It's a silly goal. Yeah. Like it'd be pointless.

Angie:

Yeah. I think I'm just gonna wait until I'm older to do a marathon. That way there's no time expectation, because I think that's one of my biggest hindrances, to be honest with you, is yes, there's a lot of time required just to complete a marathon, but I think that in my head, I have this time expectation of. If I ran that marathon, I would want to do it in under X time. And quite honestly, I don't, I can't even tell you what that time is right now.

Kevin:

But it's in there somewhere.

Angie:

But there's something in there. And so I think that if I'm old enough, if I just wait until I'm maybe like 60 or 70 and then I can just release that time expectation. I could release it now, right? Like I can do whatever I want you.

Kevin:

You could,

Angie:

But then, then I'm just gonna be like a cool old woman that ran her first marathon.

Kevin:

That would also be a fun story.

Angie:

Heck yeah.

Kevin:

All right. So that's good. Yeah. all having the goal is good. We were talking about having a goal be to improve your health, and if you take races away, if your overall picture for why you do running is simply to improve your health, then the number one way to do this is consistency. if you want to stay healthy, number one move is consistent. Exercise. That doesn't mean running every single day. It's not. You have to go start a run streak. That means consistently putting in the work so that you can improve your health and. You go online, you hear all sorts of stuff on social media about all these little tips and tricks and hacks and oh, are you making sure that you're doing this? And find the zone two, and then be in a sauna and a cold plunge and make sure that you're getting like the protein within, five minutes after your run and these many calories during your run and all these things, and heat adaptation, all this stuff. All of that works at the very small margins. That is not like the most important aspect of your running training. The most important aspect of running training is getting out and running. You have to make sure that there's some strength that comes along with it.'cause you can't just go out and run forever. Your body will break down. It needs the strength as a, foundation.

Angie:

Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it.

Kevin:

But basically, once you've got enough strength, the number one thing that's gonna make you a better runner is running more. Not this some magic workout that exists, not some supplement stack that's going to, that you need to take before, not the exact perfect post recovery drink, it's just running. So when you're trying to figure out, oh, I have to do all of these things, otherwise I'm not possibly gonna be able to achieve my plan. There are so many ways to achieve your plan. You don't have to add things. If you're like, I don't really feel like adding that in, then you probably don't need to do it. Okay. Whatever is helping you maintain consistency, that's the best thing for you.

Angie:

Okay. Wait, go back to what you just said. If you don't feel like adding the thing and then you probably don't need to do it.

Kevin:

So we're talking like extreme things. So

Angie:

extreme things.

Kevin:

Things like popular stuff that I see. I don't know how much of this is hitting your social media. Yeah. But stuff that is currently hitting mine Yeah. Is people do, it's we're in August and people are still doing like heat suit training. People are finishing their long run and then going and sitting in a sauna. People are talking about trying to maximize the amount of carbs that they take in on a long run. Yeah. These are things that may be helpful. Maybe helpful for people who are trying to win races.

Angie:

these are the people, that are the looking for the fractions of the top percentage, right?

Kevin:

But that doesn't mean that it's pointless. to have a podcast that every single week we come on and we're just like, Hey, go out and enjoy your easy run.

Angie:

No,

Kevin:

it's just gonna get really boring.

Angie:

Of course. But that is the foundation of all of it. Yes. if you're not going out and doing most of your running at an easy effort level, then the rest of your training doesn't like, is less important because you're not building that aerobic base that you need.

Kevin:

Like almost everything is simply being able to go out and just run. Comfortably and if you just go out and run comfortably, that covers the vast majority of your training.

Angie:

It, it does. And I think that there's definitely, that is a really big blanket statement and like we definitely, I know I

Kevin:

nailed it.

Angie:

Need that is your opinion on it. But I think that we definitely need. Some easy runs. We definitely need strength training, like you mentioned, which I appreciate, and we definitely need some speed work in there. Now. The speed work is, I guess more of what we can debate and it depends on who you are and what your goal is.

Kevin:

I'm excited to debate this.

Angie:

we don't, I don't think we need to debate it right now, but I think that's Because if women respond, women, especially women over 40, there's some research that shows that higher intensity stuff is important and can help with different adaptations. But I think that we can get too wrapped up in some of those details as well. it is very important for us to not forget the fundamentals of going out and running.

Kevin:

And that's my point, is you don't necessarily need to change your training plan every time a new research paper comes out. And you see another video online of oh. this person, this run influencer was just talking about this new study that came out and the results were this. Okay, do you actually know what that study was? Was that study just like eight participants and they saw improvements of 1%? what was the actual study? Because maybe the results sound great, but is the study actually worthwhile? is the study something that you actually want to change what you're doing? Adjust your entire training plan.'cause if you're enjoying your current training plan, you probably don't need to adjust it based off of the data that just came out yesterday, like you probably don't if you're currently enjoying your training plan, especially if you're enjoying and progressing with it.

Angie:

Yeah, and I think that's really, that last part is key if you're enjoying it and making progress because. There's a lot of runners that are making progress, but then they hear something new and then they think, oh, maybe that thing can help me make progress faster or make progress easier. And while that could be true, if what you're doing is currently working and you're enjoying it, why are you going to make a change, I think is one of the biggest questions. And I think that kind of takes into account this. Need that we a lot of people have right now for that instant gratification. And I think it's important for us to remember that running just doesn't work that way. there really is not a good instant gratification when it comes to long distance endurance running.

Kevin:

No, most of those adaptations come slowly. Yeah. Like they, they do. There's a few things that you can get over the course of a couple of weeks, but not, not a lot,

Angie:

but weeks, months, years, yeah. You're still looking over

Kevin:

the course of a couple of weeks.

Angie:

We're not talking about one magic workout.

Kevin:

No. that doesn't exist. If it does, that will be the name of the podcast episode when we find the magic workout. I promise the name of the episode will be, we found the magic workout.

Angie:

We found it.

Kevin:

So we've got it.

Angie:

Yeah. So you have on here, so three causes of consistency and I'll let you talk about those.'cause like we're saying here, the. One of the most important things that if you are running for health reasons, number one thing is consistency, and there are three, Kevin has three causes of consistency here. Okay.

Kevin:

One absolute rigid determination, which means no matter what is happening, you just grit your teeth and you're like, I'm doing it because that's, I need to be consistent. Okay. I feel like you're eventually gonna run out of willpower there. For sure. You sure will. Okay. Number two is probably the direction that. You would direct people towards. Number three is the point of this episode. Number two is create a habit. Because then it reduces the amount of like effort you need before friction. Yes, thank you. It reduces the friction to go out and exercise. Number three is increase the enjoyment and I feel like two and three could go together. But I think that one. Is going to have the least chance for long-term consistency because eventually just grid it out and go for it. You're going to want to stay in bed one day. Yeah. it, you're just gonna want to, if you can increase the enjoyment or if you can put it into a habit that reduces friction, that makes it easier for you to go out and run. Those are going to be long-term consistencies.

Angie:

Yes, I agree. And I think that, we do have to look at how can we enjoy it more. And that's what we're gonna get into now because that's what we have been promising you is the point of this episode. So how can we make running more fun or more enjoyable? How can you go out and enjoy running more so that you will be more consistent at it? Because when you're more consistent, then you're going to get better results. And that's. Going to probably make you enjoy it more. So it becomes a wonderful little cycle that we in instead of, that we're, we find ourselves in instead of the vicious cycle of where you're pushing too hard and then you get injured and then you have to take time off and then you're, you decline and you're running, and then you feel like you're behind. So then you start pushing too hard and you're running again, and then you end up in this vicious cycle of running. Let's get you in the good cycle, of where you're enjoying it because you're enjoying it, you're being more consistent, you're seeing better results, and that's gonna lead you to even more enjoyment. So the first thing I wanna talk about is eliminating pain, because there's a lot of runners that think that pain is just part of the process. And while there is some discomfort that comes along with running, especially if. You're trying to challenge yourself and push yourself. Like sometimes discomfort is part of the process because it, they always say, growth happens outside of your comfort zone. It requires discomfort in order for you to grow and in order for you to make progress. That's the whole principle of progressive overload. You have to push yourself. do more than what you're currently capable of, just by a little bit so that your body will build back stronger. That's how you will improve. However, there is a difference between discomfort and pain, and it's going to be very hard to enjoy running if it just hurts all the time. So this goes back to our principle that we were talking about before, is slowing yourself down because if. because running is not supposed to hurt all the time. And so if running hurts, pretty much every time you go out and run, if you think it's uncomfortable, every time you go out and run, the first thing you wanna do is slow down, okay? Because slowing down is going to help running feel better. It might change your running a little bit. Maybe that will make it more comfortable, but at least you're gonna. Do you know your lungs are probably gonna feel better. The burning in your legs is probably going to feel better now. I would consider all of those things more discomfort that I was talking about before versus pain.

Kevin:

No, that's definitely discomfort. But some, the whole idea of progressive overload works great in like the gym where you're not doing the same muscles every single time you go in. Like you've got a routine that you set me up for that I'm doing like. Push type exercises one day and a different day. I'm doing pole type exercises and so because I'm doing different muscle groups, I can progressive overload on one and could literally come back the next day and progressive overload again,'cause they're different muscles. When you go out and run, you're hitting the same muscles. So if you push just a little bit one day and then you push just a little bit the next day and again, just a little bit the next day, you're progressive overload every single time and you never give your body a chance to recover And. Your discomfort just keeps, just increasing gradually until it, it might become pain.

Angie:

Until it becomes pain. and then going back to what Kevin mentioned before about strength training, and I love when he puts those in just because it's those, just those like little love notes to me of don't worry, an I've got you. We're gonna talk about strength training as well. strength training. if you're having any sort of pain. Whether it's foot pain, ankle pain, knee pain, hip pain, you have to strength train. I would highly recommend going to see a physical therapist in your area if you don't have a physical therapist that you can see. I do online running consultations, so you can contact me, you can, reach out. Let's get you outta pain first, right? Because again, it's going to be hard to enjoy running. If you're in pain all the time. So we have to be strength training and working on our mobility so that our body is moving better, our running is more fluid and more efficient so that we can help to eliminate pain. I think that's really the baseline to help us enjoy running more is to. Help it feel better in our body.

Kevin:

Yeah. I'll give you that one. that's a good place to start. I'm, I'm on board.

Angie:

You're on board? Yeah. All right. So this, I was gonna

Kevin:

say fun shorts, but I'll take eliminate pain.

Angie:

Okay. Fun shorts is helpful too. Kevin's got a pair of blue shorts with pink flamingos on'em. Fantastic. Yeah.

Kevin:

But I don't think that I would enjoy wearing them if. I still had the pain of a hernia. No. maybe eliminating the pain is good that you started there, but

Speaker:

I've got my flamingo shorts

Angie:

instead. It's all good. so speaking of that, let go of the judgment that you just placed on Kevin for his flamingo shorts. Okay. That's actually number two.

Kevin:

I don't know. I believe that was the voice you gave me that I have when I wear my flamingo shorts. Was that the impression that you had?

Angie:

Oh, I don't think so. I'm pretty sure, not consciously. Okay. Maybe subconsciously that's just what's going on here. So I don't know. Maybe I'm judging, without even realizing it. Okay. number two, way to enjoy running more is that you have to let go of judgment. So one of the questions again that I asked on Instagram. Was, if you are someone that wants to enjoy running more, why don't you currently enjoy it? And one of the answers that I got, actually, I think this was multiple answers, said, because I'm so slow. So then my follow up question is, why does that bother you? Why does it bother you that you're slow and also slow is relative? So I'm not going to even say, you know what's slow and what's not slow, but what are you making that mean? And I think that's really what we have to start to examine here is if you think, I don't like running because I'm so slow, is it because you have judgment out around yourself? Is it because you think other people are judging you? Is it because. You are trying to get faster and you haven't been able to, and if so, what have you been doing to do that? Have you been consistent with your running or are you just judging yourself? And then when it comes to your running days, you're making excuses or reasons why? You shouldn't go out for a run, then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Then it becomes again, we have this belief, this thought, and this belief, and I go, I'm, actually go deeper into this whole idea of mindset and the thoughts, how thoughts and beliefs affect our results. In my new secret podcast, which I'm super excited about, it just launched this week. if you haven't. I listened to that yet, I should be putting the link right in here, but I don't really know what that link is yet. So I'll put it in the show notes. In the show notes. Check

Kevin:

the show notes. I will

Angie:

put it in the show notes, and if you're on our email list, it'll be, I'll be emailing that out this week as well, so you don't have to worry about that. But I have created a new secret podcast. Can they

Kevin:

slide into your dms and get it?

Angie:

Sure. Would you like to say, slide into your DMS again? Like you're some sort of cool influencer. I nailed that. Just slide into your dms. I just really

Kevin:

wanted to use that phrase,

Speaker:

so Sure. You could slide into my dms over on Instagram at real life runners and just. Send me the word secret

Angie:

podcast and I'll send it your way. How's that? That's two words. So send me the words Secret podcast. There you go. What are you, some sort of grammar place.

Kevin:

I ju I was not judging. All right. I just, yes, that was two words.

Angie:

There we go. Okay. So anyway, I do go deeper into this idea. So if you have these thoughts about yourself, if you're thinking, okay, I'm just a slow runner. Or I'm never gonna get better. I've been working at this for so long and I'm not making any progress. Those are all thoughts, and those are all beliefs, and those are driving your actions and the results that you have in your running. And so it's really important to start letting go of judgment and starting to rewire those. Thoughts, which is not just thinking positive thoughts. It's not just about starting to tell yourself mantras and be like, no, I am a fast runner. I'm a long runner. I believe in myself. that's not the way to actually rewire your thoughts. Was that a little like Jennifer Coolidge right there? Did you get that? I feel like I heard that by the time you hit the third one.

Kevin:

Yes. Yes. A little bit.

Angie:

I was a little, yeah. Yeah. I didn't even know I had that impression. That was a good one. We're rocking it tonight, thanks to this fatigue, letting go of the judgment.'cause when you're judging yourself, if you're out on your run and you're like, oh, I'm so slow. Ugh, this feels like crap. ugh, ugh. All of these, ugh, that what is that? That's from like a movie or something, right? Ugh.

Kevin:

I don't know. But it opens with, I'm so slow. So as soon as you tell yourself I'm so slow, oh, it's the

Angie:

Saturday Night Live skit. Ugh. It's like the Jimmy Fallon. Sarah. Sarah that's on Tonight

Kevin:

Life that was on his show.

Angie:

Oh, that was on the Night Tonight Show. Yes, that was on this night show. Oh, I guess I'm just old.

Kevin:

All righty. but if you're telling yourself, I am slow, then every time you look at your watch, regardless of what the clock says, yeah, you're going to then interpret that as slow. if you then take off and oh, I'm gonna surge this smile, you're still, if you're saying I'm a slow runner, you're gonna look down at the watch and be like, oh yeah, that was a slow mile. whatever the number is, it's gonna be slow for you.

Angie:

Yeah. And so if you had a mean girl that was running next to you. Saying that to you, could you imagine how miserable your run would be if you were literally running next to someone that was saying that oh, why are you so slow? I can't believe how slow you are, and just was insulting you the whole time that you are out on your run. That's not going to be an enjoyable run, but that is literally what so many people are doing to themselves with their thoughts in their brain.

Kevin:

Yeah, if you had a running partner, you would never actually say those thoughts to the person that you're running with, but you say it to yourself. All the time. It's the thoughts that go through our head. It's why some people, instead of listening to the thoughts in their head, they put on this podcast or music or something else that distracts them. So

Angie:

we can tell you that you're awesome.

Kevin:

Yeah, because you are, because you're running. But instead, people turn that off and they're like, oh no. The thoughts in my head are really bad. You've gotta address those. They're still there. Even if you turn the volume up loud, those thoughts are still there. So it's. It's beneficial to actually address those thoughts,

Angie:

right? And so by letting go of that judgment and starting to address the mean girl or mean guy in your head, it's going to start making you running a lot more enjoyable.

Kevin:

Alright then the last section here, big yawn. I was not, I kinda had to swallow, I think. Oh. Oh, I thought

Angie:

that was a big yawn.

Kevin:

No, We were talking about this a little bit before, find a plan that is enjoyable. Find the aspects of running that you enjoy. And this next line here is gonna be awkward for a running podcast. If you can't find an aspect of running that you enjoy, consider a different form of exercise. honestly, like it's. If there's no aspect of running that it's all at all enjoyable, that might not be your thing for you. Okay? But find what it is that you do enjoy and see if you can figure out how to maximize that in your plan. While minimizing the parts that you really don't want to do. Okay. Yeah. Hold on. Some you can eliminate. Some you can minimize.

Angie:

And okay, as a little caveat on your statement there, which I do agree with, if you think running is just miserable, I do think that there's a lot of other ways that you can get in shape. You can get healthy, you can get strong. Strength training is non-negotiable no matter what you do, whether you're a runner or something else. But there's lots of other things you can do. However, if you like the idea of rain, I know there's a lot of people that. Don't necessarily enjoy running yet, but they really like the idea of running and they want to like it. That, that's where I would challenge you to start to put in some of the things that we're talking about here, because when you start to look at running, like maybe you've just been doing it in a way that has not been enjoyable because you've. I've been telling yourself, oh, I have to do this in order to be a good runner, when in reality that might be an optional thing.

Kevin:

Yeah. if you hate running and you're constantly telling yourself you're slow, so you're pushing too hard on every single run, I could see how every aspect of running would be unenjoyable. Yeah. Like that in that case. You might want to try some of the things we're suggesting before you completely give up on it. If you've tried some of these things and you're like, actually, you know what, running sucks, then try a different thing.

Angie:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Try something else. Yeah. But there are ways to make it far more enjoyable.

Angie:

Yeah. So the, these ways that we're gonna talk about are really ways for you that if you currently enjoy running sometimes and you wanna enjoy it more, or you really love the idea of running and want to enjoy it, like we can start. let's talk. Okay, so let's get on a plan. Okay. Every runner we believe should be on a plan, whether that is a maintenance plan. if you're doing races and you like races, get on a race plan. If there you have other goals, like there's lots of different types of plans you can be on, but the plan is so helpful because it just tells you what to do every day. You don't have to figure it out, and I'm guessing that. Most runners want to improve in some ways. Most people don't want to decline and get slower and weaker. I can say that's probably a fair thing to say.

Kevin:

I'll say that one's fair. I don't know if necessarily everybody, every runner out there really wants to improve.

Angie:

Not necessarily. I think if there's a lot of people that just want to maintain and I think that's totally valid.

Kevin:

Maintain and enjoy the process. Yes. Of maintenance. Yes. And in that case, that's where

Angie:

I am.

Kevin:

There's a whole lot of ways that you can mess with your training plan. A lot.

Angie:

A hundred percent. And I think, and that's definitely where I like to live. I like to live in maintenance mode. do I, I don't really honestly care about my pace right now. There was a time and there a phase where I definitely did and I was trying to get faster. I was trying to build mileage Right now with my running journey. I love what I do every single week and going back to enjoying the process. I love how many runs I do. I love that I have a speed run and a longer run and an easy run. I like. Having the flexibility to move things around. I like that. I strength train three times a week, so I love my routine and it's okay that I'm not getting faster right now.

Kevin:

Yeah. and that's this whole section here. Yeah. Is figure out what it is that like it's enjoyable for you. Yeah. It, because it also brings you a level of satisfaction. Totally. Like it is very healthy what you were doing. Yeah. But you're not trying to chase prs. At one point you were chasing PRS and it was enjoyable, and then you kind gotta the hamster wheel aspect of it. And it lost the enjoyment.

Angie:

and then. COVID happened then too, and all

Kevin:

races disappeared.

Angie:

Races went away, and so ster

Kevin:

wheels just spun wild. So

Angie:

then I was ch, I was, doing my own thing and still challenging myself, which was fun. And then I started shifting focus more to strength training, which I really have been enjoying.

Kevin:

COVID caused the two of us to go in very different directions. you really doubled down on strength training. And I was like, a hundred miles, let's do this.

Angie:

Ultra marathons. that's when you did your first Ultra Yeah. Was during 20, like New Year's Eve of 2020.

Kevin:

Yes. That was 31 miles. Yeah. Loop in the neighborhood, which I thought was enjoyable. Yeah, because that's, it was fun for me.

Angie:

Okay, so let's talk about. Finding a plan and our process to maximize what you like and minimize the things that you don't like, because you don't need to be putting all things into your training plan, depending on what your goal is.

Kevin:

Okay. So you don't need a long run. You don't, I'll just, we put that out there. You don't have to have a long run. If you are training for a half marathon or a marathon, a long run is going to be beneficial for you. If you don't have a race on the schedule, there's no running rule book that says if you don't have a long run over the weekend, then you're not a real runner. Yeah, okay. It also, it doesn't have to fit the weekend. I've, we've got someone on the team who does their long run on, on a Thursday. Like you can put your long run wherever it fits your schedule or not have one. Which takes a whole lot of pressure off of some people.

Angie:

Yeah, I agree. And I think that, again, the caveat here is that you're not training for a longer race. If you are trained for a half marathon or above a long run is very important there. There's a certain amount of running that you need to do in order to prepare yourself to do the thing that you want to be able to achieve. But if you're not training for a race right now, like me, you don't have to have a long run. Like I have a longer run, but I don't have a long run that progresses in mileage every week. I have three to four runs during my week. it's lately it's been more three and I have like. Where I do a four mile, a five mile and a six mile, essentially. And that's what I do. And I like that. And sometimes I do a little bit less, and sometimes I do a little bit more. Sometimes I go up to seven or eight on the weekends. Sometimes my four turns into a three. Like it just depends, but I've got some flexibility around that, which I really like.

Kevin:

But you have four or 5, 6, 1 of'em is longer than the other one. I'm saying you could have 5, 5, 5. Totally. And that is fine. Yeah. Like your runs don't have to vary in distance and it's still going to be fine. You don't need two speed sessions every week. that's a classic thing. I think it came from Frank Shorter back in like the seventies of that. He was basically like designing a running plan is not that hard. Put in two hard workouts and one long run and then fill the rest in with as much easy mileage as your body can handle. Yeah. That was essentially his training advice. You don't have to. He won the Olympic gold. Yeah. You may not be a aiming for that same goal. Okay. So you don't have to have two speed sessions because someone told you that's the best way to optimize your training. It might, but if you might be,

Angie:

but if you like speed sessions, then you can

Kevin:

Yes. That's the flip of it is the converse, if you really enjoy running fast, you can run strides. All the time. You could put strides onto basically every run during the week, and you'd be fine. I don't think that you should necessarily go out and do these hard speed sessions every day. That's too much overload. We've talked about do pushing too hard every time, but you can put two speed sessions during the run. You're like, oh, I only run four days a week. is two speed sessions too much? Not if the sessions themself have the right amount of volume inside of it, It might not be big speed sessions. There might be a warmup and a cool down and a little bit where you get to play with some fun faster paces. If that's enjoyable for you. That should be your training plan. That sounds like a whole heck of a lot of fun. Maybe not for me. You would enjoy that kind of a plan. That's how I got you into running. Yeah. You didn't enjoy just going out and running.

Angie:

No, I did not.

Kevin:

You didn't, and so I, I've got another one on here. Every single run you go on could have a change of pace to it. Just because it's an easy run does not mean that you can't change between slightly faster and slightly slower. Like you can still go up and down on every single run.

Angie:

Yeah. Which is great. and I think that this is a lot of things that people don't realize are quote unquote allowed, right? but who's making these running rules that you're following? I think that's pretty shorter. I just said it. I think that's an important thing to look at too. where are you getting some of these rules? Because there are. Quote unquote best practices for a lot of runners. But that doesn't mean that's is what is right for every single runner out there. Okay? Strength training, I gotta talk about it. It's non-negotiable. You do have to do strength training. I will say it and I, that is a hill that I am prepared to run up and down and stand on as long or as hard as I have to. You have to strength train as a runner. However, I will admit that the volume of strength training is adjustable based on your goals and your likes or dislikes. I really like strength training, so I put additional strength training sessions into my week that aren't necessarily aimed at making me a better runner. They're just aimed at making me a stronger person, whereas if I was making a. Strength program for Kevin. I'm gonna focus more on the strength aspects that are going to really support him in his running, and then ask him if he wants to do a little bit extra.

Kevin:

Yeah. You're not putting any extra strength into my plan that you don't think is the required strength for what I want to accomplish. Like this, but

Angie:

also like some of what you want to accomplish is also just. Being a strong human. there's, you've gotta carry boxes like we put inside. You installed a fence, like there's a lot of housework and things that you do too. And so it's important for you to be able to be strong without getting hurt. So it's not just, it's yes, you're a runner, but you're not just a runner. You're also a strong man that needs to be strong to. Pick up our kids that when they randomly jump into your arms without notice, one

Kevin:

does like to jump on my back all the time. But

Angie:

if she did that and you weren't strong enough there, like you don't wanna throw out your back, which you know, would end up actually affecting your running.

Kevin:

Yeah. Okay. So I need enough strength that I can run as far as fast as I want. And catch our kid when she runs from across the room and then just leaps onto me. Exactly. Okay. So I need those two levels of strength training. Exactly. Which is fine. And that's why strength is non-negotiable. Like you, I was curious if you were gonna go with my words,'cause that's what I put down. Strength is non-negotiable, but the volume is adjustable. Yeah. Completely based off of your goals. Yeah. What do you need to get out of strength?

Angie:

Yes. And there is a minimum that is required, but I do also strength that minimum is different for everybody.

Kevin:

Yeah. And I think it's drastically dependent on. On your goals and how well and easily you adjust to strength.

Angie:

Yes. And also your injury history and your bone health and your muscle health. And there, there's a lot of factors that, So

Kevin:

there's a huge factor list that

Angie:

play into it. But I would say minimum is twice a week. And the length of those sessions is. variable, but you can get a lot of really good benefits as a runner with two 30 minute strength sessions per week. Like you can probably hit all of the muscles that you need to hit if you, if strength training's not your favorite thing, and then add in some like additional mobility throughout the week as well, like through some warmups and some running drills and things like that.

Kevin:

If you have an empty gym, you can crank it out in 20, yeah. You definitely can. Yeah. if you're not waiting for anybody, all the machines are just available to you. Yeah. Yeah. 20 minutes I can knock this thing out. Yeah. I see. Do I have anything else in here? You can run almost every day as long as you're picking appropriate distances and efforts. Okay. Some people love going out and running all the time. We've got people on the team that are like, I would like a planning training plan that has three days of running, four days of running. We have people that are like, can I run eight days outta the week? It's that's a lot of running

Angie:

eight days a week. That's my British Beatles accent. That was the perfect opportunity. That was definitely not British, though. That was

Kevin:

not British at all. No. but yeah, no, you could've gone there. Yeah. I'm not. but what I went with is you can run almost every day. Okay.

Angie:

That is Kevin's love language.

Kevin:

What, running almost every day. Yes. But I still, when I feel like my body needs a recovery day, needs an off day. I take it. And that's, I think, a very important balance. Yeah. Because just because I would enjoy going out and running tomorrow does not mean that's necessarily the best thing for my long-term health. So that's the other thing is even when it's enjoyable sometimes you need to take the off day also. Yeah. You need to be like, ah, it sounds really fun to do that. I probably shouldn't.

Angie:

Yeah, and that's true. And again, that's knowing your limitations and your boundaries and really understanding your body in a way that you can read your body's signals. And that's, again, this is something that we teach inside of our coaching program, inside of the Running Reconnect method. We help you reconnect to your body and what your body needs because your body is sending you. Signals all of the time. And if you ignore those signals, you're just going to end up fatigued. You're gonna end up not enjoying your runs. You're gonna end up in pain or illness or being forced to take time off. But when you learn how to reconnect to your body and really then. Honor it, right? And actually take those off days when your body is telling you, Hey bud, we need an off day today, or We need some more mobility work, or We need, your body's constantly communicating with you. When you learn how to listen to it and actually do those things, then you don't have to take time off. You can run as far or as long or as often as you. Really want to. I would say want is the questionable word there, right? Because it's, you might want to go run, it's best for you to stay in and just sleep.

Kevin:

Yeah. But this is the thing is, but you

Angie:

want that, right? Because then that's going to help you long term.

Kevin:

Yeah. Because the least enjoyable aspect of running is forced downtime. Yes. Forced downtime is the worst aspect of running because it's the complete. Opposite of running forced downtime. It could that is literally the worst aspect there. Yeah. There could be.

Angie:

Absolutely. Alright, is there anything else that you wanna add in here that you think people should hear today?

Kevin:

literally anything that you can come up with that makes it fun. Like new pads, new trails. Running with people, running without, people running with music. Running like whatever. You're like, that would make it more enjoyable. Is that cheating? No. Yeah. Like people are like, oh, you shouldn't run with music all the time if you find it enjoyable. Who's stopping you? Yeah. There is not running. There are not, there are no rules. There's not a committee out there that's nah, that doesn't count it. It counts. Do whatever you find enjoyable. If you love the various running outfits, rock those. If you enjoy the fun socks I ran without a shirt this morning. That just that made my run. Honestly, I was considering taking a nap, but then I didn't have a shirt and I was like, actually, this seems like it's gonna be fun to go out and run. Yeah. That was that little thing was possibly what got me out the door and not back into bed.

Angie:

Yeah. I don't think I've run with a shirt like all summer long because it's just so hot here that just having a shirt, even a lightweight. Shirt makes running less enjoyable for me. Yeah, so fun. And it used to be the opposite. So this is the interesting thing too. I just have to add this in here, because running used to be like, I used to be so self-conscious about my body, especially my stomach, that I didn't wanna show it when I, like I was very self-conscious running, so I. Was able to get over that and now it's just so much more comfortable and enjoyable when I don't need to wear a shirt.

Kevin:

I finished like an hour before the sun came up so no one could see me, so I was fine.

Angie:

Oh, stop. Oh, stop. Alright. You were gonna, were you gonna add something else in here?

Kevin:

No, just whatever you can come up with that you're like, actually that sounds really fun. Then you should do that.

Angie:

Yeah, exactly. Alright, so if you guys want to. Hear more about like how to enjoy running. We're gonna go, you can check out episode, I think it was 3 42 and 2 72. We have a couple other episodes about like how to bring more joy into your running. If you wanna catch my secret podcast, I will drop that link in the show notes below this episode. Or again, you can also send me the words, double plural.

Kevin:

Just slide into those dms.

Angie:

In the dms at. At real life runners. and then if you wanna join our 30 day strength strong runner kickstart, we've got a 30 day challenge coming up, that is kicking off September 1st. You can go over to your running plan.com and sign up for that 30 day challenge. Today we're gonna show you exactly how to combine. Running and strength training in a personalized way that works for you, because that's really the key that you know of. All of this is yes, you need to do running, you know you need to do strength training, but how can I combine both of those things in a way where they compliment each other and don't work against each other because. Sometimes if you're doing things the wrong way, your running can work against your strength training. And your strength training can actually work against your running. And we don't want that for you. We want you guys making progress. We want you feeling good, and we want you to be able to enjoy running more. And that's part of what this challenge is also gonna give to you. It's gonna give you that plan, but it's also going to help you with the mindset stuff that we've been talking about. Today, it's going to help you with nutrition and all the other aspects to help you feel better and enjoy running more. So again, you can sign up for that 30 day challenge over@yourrunningplan.com. As always, thanks for joining us. This has been The Real Life Runners Podcast, episode number 423. Now, get out there and run your life.