417: Menopause Myths in the Running World—And What Women Really Need

As women runners over 40, we often face a wave of confusing (and sometimes extreme) advice about menopause and fitness — especially on social media. In this episode, we cut through the noise and dive into what really matters when it comes to training during perimenopause and beyond.

We break down the most common menopause myths circulating in the running community and explore the physiological shifts happening in midlife. From hormone changes to training adaptations, we highlight what women truly need to feel strong, empowered, and capable — not just now, but for the long run.

In this episode, we cover:

• The problem with social media extremes & one-size-fits-all advice
• Hormonal changes and their real impact on training and recovery
• Why strength training is non-negotiable in midlife
• The truth about weight gain, metabolism, and cortisol
• How to balance intensity, recovery, and mindset for lifelong performance
• The trend of “cycle syncing” vs. what’s actually helpful for aging runners
• Why personalized training matters more now than ever

Whether you're running through hot flashes or just looking to stay consistent through the transitions of midlife, this episode will leave you informed, empowered, and supported.

02:01 Menopause Myths and Social Media

06:23 Understanding Hormonal Changes

08:07 Training Adaptations for Menopausal Women

12:06 Menopause Myths in Training

14:20 Cycle Specific Training

18:31 Progressive Overload and Recovery

22:42 Training Intensity Debate

27:14 Understanding Exercise Intensity for Aging Bodies

27:47 Weight Gain and Menopause: Myths and Realities

29:08 The Role of Cortisol in Weight Management

34:03 Strength Training: Essential for Midlife

35:11 Balancing Strength and Cardio for Runners

41:03 The Importance of Recovery and Nutrition

45:41 Mindset Shifts for Sustainable Health

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Transcript

Angie: 0:24

What's up runners? Welcome back to the show. Today we are talking about menopause myths in the running world and what women really need. Why are we talking about this now? Because there is so much noise about menopause and menopause training and what it does to our bodies and perimenopause, and while I am so glad that menopause and perimenopause are finally getting a seat at the table and in conversation and we're talking about this more and people are becoming much more aware of it. We also have to address some of the controversy and some of the other things that are going on because whenever there's a topic that becomes a hot topic on social media, as well as I know there's a lot of good information out there and there's also a lot of bad information out there. So today we wanna clear the air, we some nuance, some evidence, and some real world insight from working with hundreds of women runners over 40 over the past decade that we've been working with. So let's get started. What's up runners? Welcome back to the show. Thanks for joining us today. Last week we had our guest podcast. That was an awesome episode that we had with Holly Bertone. So if you missed that, I'd heavily. Heavily, highly encourage you to go back and listen to that one.

Kevin: 1:56

It's an excellent episode. I enjoyed listening to that one myself.

Angie: 1:58

I'm so glad you did. But I've gotten a lot of really positive feedback. So thanks to Holly for coming on and being a guest on that episode. Again, if you're listening to this, so today we wanted to talk about, oh, today that reminds me of like my little favorite Instagrammer. Carter, excellent. Today. Today, oh my gosh. There's this little guy. We're be pretty for the rest of this episode. He's so cute. He's probably five years old and he does cooking tutorials. Oh my gosh. He's adorable. But anyway, so today we are going to be talking about menopause myths because there's a lot of information going around now, and like I said in the intro. I'm very glad that we're having this conversation, and I also want to be a voice of reason, a voice of science, and a voice of nuance. And I know people don't like nuance, especially in social media because. That does not usually get clicked on, right? Like the things that get clicked on are more of those really big, bold statements of women should always do this. Women should never do this. And in reality, spoiler alert, that's often never the case. there's not one right thing for everyone. I guess I. I can say that.

Kevin: 3:07

Yeah, that, that

Angie: 3:08

is a statement. That is true.

Kevin: 3:09

That's your absolute, yeah. Is, is social media is where nuance goes to die because no one, so like gray area is not so inflammatory gray area makes people stop and think for a second, but not necessarily. Bond with a strong in favor or against it because it's hard to be strongly against gray area. that's what you really need to bring into a conversation like this. It's funny. In the intro you were talking about how this is like getting a whole lot of popularity and a lot of buzz on social media. I think it's getting a lot of buzz on your social media feed. It is not necessarily feeding my algorithm. I am not getting a huge amount of menopause. Into my particular reels, but, I am still excited for the topic on the day.

Angie: 3:52

that's good. And it shows you that the algorithm is working, But obviously this is something that I talk about. It's something that I do research on, so who knows where they're pulling all their information. But yes, it's full, my feed is full of all of this information. So I do think it's very important to talk about what are some good information out there and what. Is not maybe the best information that we need to be looking at and to Frame this the right way. like we mentioned before, we have to accept this idea of why social media is so polarizing, why it thrives on the extremes of people say never this or always that, because that is what gets the clicks. That's what, those are the things that go viral because people love. Being angry. Now, I think I shouldn't say, I guess I shouldn't say people love being angry, but they just, they love things to fight back against. I think

Kevin: 4:46

they love things to fight back against. They love a villain. Yeah. if someone can make a statement, even if they make a statement where they set themselves up at the. As a villain on social media, that's still winning because people will interact with them. Yeah. Or if you create somebody else as a villain and somebody else makes an absolute statement and you come back and you'll be like, actually there's some nuance, some gray air to that. That's also an interesting thing, but it never starts with, there's gray area. It always starts with the giant, explosive, absolute statement.

Angie: 5:14

Yeah, and I think that oftentimes when you see people making some of those very polarizing types of statements, they often have something to sell you. And I know that is also a pretty big generalization. I'm not saying that it's an always type of thing, but oftentimes that is what's happening. So you have to be careful when people are talking about hacking your hormones and. Why, it's impossible for you to have the body that you used to have without this magic supplement, then your red flag should go up. And I think that's really important and that there are some people on, these feeds and especially mine, where there are people talking about. How to get your 30-year-old body back and how to hack your hormones and why all these things change during menopause. And some people are ignoring and dismissing menopause entirely. And even our medical establishment, like on one of our coaching calls that we had, I think last week, one of our members actually, no, she put up as a post in the, in our Facebook group. One of our members was talking about how she went to her doctor and she was talking to him about different symptoms that she was having and he. said to her like, oh, I didn't really realize that was a symptom of menopause. And she was talking about how grateful she was with the knowledge that she currently has because there are so many different symptoms that can be a result of the hormone changes that we go through in menopause. So it's not necessarily that menopause causes this, but the hormone changes that we experience during the menopause transition can throw our body into all sorts of. Crazy things. And I think that's one of the things that's really important to recognize and to realize. And that's really the starting point, is that women's bodies during perimenopause and post menopause are different than they were when you were in your teens, your twenties, and even your thirties. And I think that's the first thing that we have to recognize is that. This is a state of hormone transition, and when your hormones are changing and when your body loses estrogen and progesterone, it does not operate the same way. That does not mean that decline is inevitable, that you're screwed, that there's no hope for you, but it does mean that you have to. Your body's playing by a different playbook. And so essentially you have to learn the new rules of the game. And that's the way that I like to look at it.

Kevin: 7:29

it's a weird flux all over the place of various hormones. But on the other end of the spectrum, we also coach high school kids Yeah. That also have all sorts of crazy ups and downs of their hormones. And it's not like we're coaching these people in two completely unrelated ways. There's still. We're basically still coaching people. There's still humans. There's still the ways that, that the human body evolves and adapts to a training stimulus. that's still, ultimately the rule is you give the body a stimulus, you allow it to recover and build back stronger from the stimulus, and then you move forward. Like at the foundation. That's training an athlete. Whatever their age is, whatever's going on with the hormones. It's just a matter of trying to figure out what works for this specific athlete. So suggesting that like every woman in perimenopause should do this training plan is like suggesting that every teenage boy should follow this exact training plan. Yeah. Neither one of those makes sense because there's not a uniform. blanket statement is gonna cover every single case.

Angie: 8:30

Yeah, exactly. And I think that this really comes down to really our overall point, which is that you need to train people. As individuals, we have to have this middle ground that respects and honors and recognizes that. Our physiology is changing. The way that your body is right now is not the same as it was five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. And it's probably not the same as it's gonna be five years, 10 years, and 15 years down the road from now. Our bodies are constantly in flux. They're constantly changing. And so we have to be able to acknowledge that and respect that without catastrophizing it. And I think that's what, where so many women. Put themselves is that they see this as like this decline of oh God, during menopause. Like they see this as this big thing. And I think that's one. Of the negatives. One of the, like essentially the shadow side of all of this information is yes, it's very good for us to be educated and know what's coming and understand some of the changes and how they affect our bodies, but at the same time, we don't wanna use that as an excuse for why we can't do something. I think that it's a more of, okay, I know that my body's going through these things. How can I adjust and adapt my training to fit? Where my body is right now. But you know what, we should be doing that on a daily basis anyway, right? there are days that I'm just more tired or I'm sore, or I stayed up late with my teenager the night before, or other things in my life are really stressful. It's important for us to always acknowledge those things. The big difference in menopause and perimenopause is that we are losing estrogen. And estrogen is like this buffer hormone that like. Makes us more able to deal with things, I think is one of the big things that Estrogen does to, I hate to oversimplify it that way, but that's a big thing of what it does is like it makes us more tolerant to stress and to other things. And as we lose it, we just have less tolerance to stress and other things in our life that can take a toll on us. And so we have to be much more cognizant and aware of. How our body is responding and then adjust ourselves, our actions, our habits, our behaviors in order to make up for the loss of estrogen.

Kevin: 10:44

Yeah. I know you, you wanna get into these, the menopause myths here, but one, one other thing that's in this idea of recognizing where your body is at and then going from there is for so long. People, especially if you've been running for a long time, you might view a difficult run, a long run of a very hard workout as essentially you versus your body. And this whole idea that training is you battling against your body is ultimately going to catch up. And the sooner you can adjust and say that you're not running against your body, it's not a battle against your body, that you are accomplishing these tasks with your mind and your body together, that you as a whole being are accomplishing these amazing things. One, I think the more enjoyable that task is gonna be, and I think the further and more successful you can be with all those tasks because then you're not battling against yourself in the process. The whole process just becomes more enjoyable and it's a lot easier to give yourself grace. When the battle isn't against yourself, when it's just you accomplishing these amazing things,

Angie: 11:52

I really love that perspective. So thank you for offering that because I think it's helpful for all of us. So let's jump into some of the menopause myths that I am starting to see right now in the running world and. Why it misses the mark and really then we will move into kinda what we need to be focusing on instead. and spoiler alert, it's not something super crazy, so I'm just gonna put that out there. if you like a voice of reason and science and education, please keep listening. If you want some sort of click bait with lots of hacks, then you can go to another podcast. all right, let's move on to number one. So this whole idea of Needing to have menopause specific training or cycle specific training. as a woman that women should be training differently than men. Again, that is a really big blanket statement that we cannot use because. Every woman is so different, and there are some women out there that can run higher mileage, that can do more intensity, that their bodies are more adaptable. they just recover more quickly, like versus other women out there. And that could be. A whole host of factors that cause that there is nothing wrong with you if someone else adapts faster than you or adapts differently than you, or is able to run faster or run longer than you. It just means your body is different. And I think that's so important for us. Like how often do you look at a runner in the Olympics and say, man. I'm really angry that I'm not as good as her. Like I'm really mad right now. Like, how dare she be that fast?

Kevin: 13:36

I say that every four years.

Angie: 13:38

maybe you do, coming from the competitive world of running, but not me. Like I look at those women no matter. What their age is, what their event is, what they're doing. And I am in awe and I am inspired. And I think that's how most of us look at those elite runners is we look at them as sources of inspiration, not as a source of like jealousy and anger. And so why would you look at somebody. at your local 5K in that way as well, right? Like I know that it's ang those people are on TV and whatnot. But it's the same thing. it's still that comparison mode.

Kevin: 14:10

it's still a comparison. And comparison's always gonna bring up issues. I forget which podcast I was listening to, but they were talking all about comparison of if you use comparison as a source of inspiration, it's always. Gonna work in your favor. If you use comparison to push yourself down or to push somebody else down so you can push yourself up, then ultimately that's gonna come back and get you. Yeah. But if you simply use comparison as a perpetual source of inspiration, that is the best way that you can use it. Look around you for ways that you can inspire yourself.

Angie: 14:42

Yeah. So the other thing that. you might be seen out in the social media world or wherever you like to get your current events, is this idea of cycle specific training that like during certain points of the month, women should engage in certain activities but not others. Like it's not during the luteal phase, your body's more set up for this, and during the ovulation phase, your body's better set up for this. And again, you can't blanket statement, things like that, like it's just not true and it's not good science because there's always gonna be days. It doesn't matter what phase you're in, that you're more tired than others, or there's gonna be days that you feel great regardless of what part of your cycle you're in. Is it true that your body has a different hormone profile? Yes. Your body does have a different hormone profile at different phases of your cycle. If you are still having. A regular cycle. That's the other thing to keep in mind because once you enter perimenopause, Dr. Mary Claire Haver talks about this as the zone of chaos. She's like one of the lead menopause experts out there right now be, and so essentially what's happening is that your hormones are not going in this very normal, predictable pattern like they have been for the past following decades. They, your hormones are all over the place and. They're being released at different times. And because there are some months that your body releases an egg and trigger certain hormones to release, and there are other months that you don't because your body's literally running out of eggs. And so your hormones are going through this chaos. And so your body. Doesn't know what the heck is going on. And that's really what a lot of women are experiencing. They're experiencing days where they feel great and they can go out and they can run longer or they can run faster, they can lift really heavy, and then two days later they feel like trash and they don't know what the heck is going on and they think something's wrong with them. And so I really want you to hear that nothing is wrong with you, that your hormones are just all over the place. If you are still in perimenopause, if you're in post menopause, it's a little different, but your hormones are all over the place. And so there might be. One day where you feel fantastic and one day where you don't feel great. And that's why it's so important for you to understand and listen to your body. And this is why we teach effort based training inside of our programs and to all of our clients because it that it's so much more important for you to go by how your body feels that day versus trying to fit yourself into some pre-assigned pace that your watch says that you should be able to do.

Kevin: 17:07

I love all the research on cycle specific training. I, anytime I get to hear a podcast on it, I find it fascinating because it almost always from one podcast to the next disagrees with itself. because every time new research comes out, it's actually what we've now found is this. And then someone will do research. Literally running the same study and they'll come to different conclusions. One of my favorite ones I heard about this a couple years back, was they took a group of women and were trying to figure out like what the various hormone changes were as the group moved through a four week span. Yeah. And they determined that hormone changes within that four week span with from one woman was the same range as from one woman to the next on any given day. Yep. So it was Sure you have fluctuations in your hormones, but you and the person standing next to you also have totally different hormones. And that's why it's so critical to be like, there's not just a plan of, oh, are you on day seven? Then you should be doing this exact workout. that's just not how it works because. One woman's day seven and somebody else's is completely different. I don't remember the names of the phases. It's okay.

Angie: 18:13

you don't need to. And most people don't know them. And I could just be like saying them to sound more sciencey, which again, people like to do in social media, right? Yep. Like they like to throw out these terms so that it sounds like they're educated and they know what they're talking about, when in reality they're just. Feeding, something else that they saw in someone else's Instagram reel or TikTok, right? So it is really important for us to understand that your hormones are changing, whether you're a male or a female, but especially if you're a female, because we have a lot more hormones that we're dealing with that are going through this change during this transition. And those hormones impact your body's ability to maintain and build muscle. That doesn't mean that you can't, it just means it's different. It's changing. However. What we do see in the research is not that, women need to be on some totally different type of workout plan than men. A lot of there, there is research out there that shows that women. Are they gain muscle similarly to men. Like in the biggest key, which we're gonna talk about in a little bit here, is progressive overload. That is the way that you build muscle. You have to overload the body, and this is exactly the way that we train running as well. We need to progressively overload the body. That's how your body adapts. Now what does that mean? Progressive overload. Is a concept that basically means you push your body to what it's currently capable of and then you add a little bit more. Then you allow your body to recover and adapt, and during that adaptation process, your body builds back stronger than it was before. Then you do it again. You add a little bit more, and that can be. A little bit more intensity. That can be higher weights. If you're lifting weights. It can be more repetitions, it can be, distance. whether it's mileage or time on feet. It can be intensity. There's lots of different ways that you can overload the body, but basically. You overload the body and then you allow rest and recovery for the body to adapt. And this is one of the things that is really important for us to understand during this phase of life, which is your hormones and our loss of estrogen basically makes recovery take longer. And this is where people get so frustrated with training because they're noticing that. They're not making gains as quickly as they used to. They're noticing that their bodies are sore for longer periods of time versus the way that they used to be, the way they used to bounce back and recover after a hard training session. And that's because your body doesn't have these hormones to. Help and to back it up, and that's why sleep and rest and recovery and nutrition and hydration become even more important than they used to be before. It's not different. It just becomes like we again, we're just losing that buffer that we had with estrogen.

Kevin: 20:51

You're losing the buffer on the recovery side. You're also losing it on how far you can push. When you say you want to go to what you're capable of doing and then push a little bit further, you used to be able to push and be like, oh, I could, I should probably stop here, but maybe I'll do one more rep.

Angie: 21:06

So it used to be able to go to 12, but now we can only go to 11.

Kevin: 21:09

exactly. Like you used to, if you were, say for example, lifting, you used to want to have one rep in reserve. Now you probably want to have two or three reps in reserve. There's like the old track coach saying of always leave one more rep available and. If you've got some good history of working on your speed, you don't need to have one more rep available. Probably you're good to call that workout done with the ability to do two more reps, maybe even three more reps, depending on exactly what the workout is. But you want the ability, you want a little extra, you don't have to push quite as far over the line as I said, I think what I'm going for.

Angie: 21:43

Yeah, I think that you're right. I think that it's a, and I think that's a matter of smart, smarter training, right? saying, knowing. And I think that's part of the aging process. One of the benefits of wisdom, right? Like you're essentially saying I don't have to kill myself in this workout. I can push myself for sure, but I don't have to go all the way past the line and then some, right? I can still get really good benefits and recover quick more quickly if I push to this point. But then don't go over that. And I think that again, it just becomes. Smarter training. And I don't, I hesitate to use the word smarter because I don't want you to think that like you're stupid or dumb for doing it the old way because that's what you've been taught. That's what we've been told. We've been fed this whole idea of no pain, no gain of like just push hard, go hard, or go home. And again, those things maybe. Could have worked in your twenties, but when you get into your forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, it's just not the same way. Your body just doesn't adapt the same way. And so we need to be kinder to ourselves, I think, and be a little bit more gentle understanding that. We still need that progressive overload. We can still push, we can still go farther, we can lift heavier, we can do, sprint intervals and different things like this, but we just have to make sure that we are doing a little bit less of it, I think, in general, so that your body can adapt and recover more quickly.

Kevin: 23:01

Yeah, so don't go. Super overboard and make sure that you're recovering nicely. Alright, what do we got next?

Angie: 23:06

Alright, so that takes us into training intensity. So there is definitely some controversy in this area of training intensity and what is the quote unquote right thing for us to be doing as women in perimenopause or menopause. So there are some people that say, and this tends to be I think like the older idea of, once you get to be past a certain age, there's a lot of people that tell you should stop running because running is too high of an intensity. Activity, right? that we should really only be focusing on low intensity and low impact for joint health and for all these things. And that is not true. That's not the only thing we should be doing. It is a very important thing for us to do, but it's not the only thing for us to do. Now, there's a lot of people out there saying. low to moderate intensity is worthless. We should really only be doing high intensity because that's the best for us. The high intensity training is going to help us build more muscle and build more bone and not put as much stress on the body. And also that's not true as well. Like we need a mix of both. And again, this is where we go back to, science and nuance, which is your body needs. All of a whole different host of stress. And I say that in a good way because stress is a body, but, trained stimulus is the word I'm looking for. We need to. Challenge the body in different ways. Sometimes it's low intensity, moderate intensity, high intensity, and the ratio of that changes from individual to individual based on your body type, based on what you like to do, what you find fun, and also what your training goals are. You know someone that wants to run a marathon. If you tell them that low to moderate aerobic exercise is worthless, that's the really not a smart thing to say. that's what a marathon is. A marathon is lower to moderate intensity, aerobic exercise. You need to train that if you wanna go do that thing, right? so it's, you can't take this one blanket statement and say, this is what everybody should be doing, and if you don't do this, you're an idiot.

Kevin: 25:06

But blanket statements sound so much cooler, Only go low impact and that you can reason all of them, like only go low impact. Because as we're getting older, our joints are going to be, they can't take as much of the pounding Sounds like a very logical thing except for the fact that you actually need some impact in order to continue building the strength of your bones. this is. Actually super critical that you have some actual impact exercise. Yeah. As you get older. So then people are like, oh, you wanna make sure that you have some impact. So they go the other direction. Do the high intensity because you can get a good workout over a shorter period of time, and you don't wanna be out there for so long because you're getting older because of the oxidative stress on the body. The oxidative stress in the body. Yes. Don't forget

Angie: 25:47

to mention that. Yeah,

Kevin: 25:48

if you can, oxidative, that's a good one. Luteal, I think was a nice vocabulary word you dropped earlier. Whatever. Again, if we can drop in mitochondria later, then we're gonna be, you

Angie: 25:56

just dropped it. Sweet. You're there.

Kevin: 25:58

that these are the signs that you know exactly what you're talking about. And then put an always or, and ever at the beginning of your statement and you're good to go. Good to go. But. It is, it's both and it's always, no matter what it is that you're training for, you need a balance of all these different things. It's just that the balance varies low and slow is going to build up an aerobic base and pr pretty much whatever your activity is, there's gonna be a huge aerobic component for it.

Angie: 26:24

Especially if you're a runner.

Kevin: 26:26

If you're doing a 5K and you're like, oh, I push myself really hard. Yeah, it's almost entirely aerobic. Like the 800 meter in the Olympic level where they're going for like a minute, 45 is still mostly an aerobic activity. So if you're thinking that you're Turkey trot, 5K feels super anaerobic, it's just your finishing kick. but then you also need the intensity. You just need to figure out a way to strategically put it in. Like we were saying in the last one, you need to figure out a way that you can balance. Reaching a little bit past where you currently are and being able to recover the idea is you just can't always go overboard. If you're going by the philosophy that it should always be high intensity, you're setting yourself up to just have this huge level of stress, and then you need to have huge amounts of recovery following it. You need a balance,

Angie: 27:13

right? So the real problem here is not the intensity itself, it's just this. Unregulated stress that you're putting on the body. And this is what a lot of people don't realize. And again, this is where a lot of people get frustrated too, because they used to be able to train with more intensity and they don't have that same ability to recover and adapt. Now, that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Your body still needs it, but we just have to be much. More intentional about how we're adding this into our life. So the kind of the recap here is that you need low intensity, moderate intensity, and high intensity activities based on your goals and what kind of adaptations you're looking to achieve. And as we get older, we probably need a little bit more of the lower intensity things so that our body actually has the time to adapt to the higher intensity things that we have during our week. All right. Number three, there's. People, a whole host of course, of things in social media right now about weight gain during menopause. And because obviously the diet industry is, however many billions of dollars. Holly dropped a fun stat on that on the podcast last week of like, how many billions of dollars the diet industry is responsible for every single year.

Kevin: 28:30

70, I think it was 70.

Angie: 28:32

Yeah, it's something ridiculous, right? So of course now we can blame weight gain in menopause on your cortisol levels and we can then sell you a supplement to help you decrease your cortisol levels or tell you that, whatever it is, we can target menopause specific weight gain. now. Weight gain can be a symptom of menopause because of the changes that we are experiencing as women so that these hormone changes that we have change, like as we lose estrogen and progesterone, that changes the way that our body. Processes, glucose and our insulin sensitivity levels. So the way that our body then uses energy, our body, the energy availability in our body that changes, it, it like, it goes through this kind of shift. So a lot of women do experience weight gain dur during. perimenopause and menopause. But that doesn't mean that there's nothing you can do about it. it also doesn't mean that cortisol is bad, and we've talked about this in previous podcasts as well. Cortisol is a really important hormone that helps to mobilize your body for action. That's what it does, like when your body is ready to go run or to do some sort of harder activity. Cortisol is released so that we can actually get glucose into the bloodstream so that glucose can get to your working muscles and your body so that you can run or lift or whatever activity you're trying to do. So the problem is not cortisol itself. The problem is. Unchecked cortisol levels is chronically high cortisol levels, and the reason that happens is because estrogen helps to regulate cortisol. So as we lose estrogen, your cortisol levels are less regulated. That doesn't mean that they're just doing whatever they want. It just means that, again. Our choices matter a lot more. We have to be more intentional with how we regulate stress. And there's a lot of stress in midlife. there's our, we have our kids, some of us have aging parents and other things that we have to deal with. We've got houses, we've got home renovations, both expected and not expected. if you're following us on Instagram, you'll understand what I'm referencing in that comment, but there's a lot of stress and. That the stress levels are leading to higher levels of cortisol, and now we don't have estrogen to help regulate things. So the problem is those, the less regulated, higher chronic levels of cortisol that we have in the body, that can lead to changes in the way that our body processes insulin and glucose and muscle mass. And so it's not. That we can't do anything about it. There's a lot of things that we can do. It's just that our choices matter a lot more. And when we train smarter, like we just talked about with intensity and regulating our intensity, making sure that we're recovering, we're not overdoing it because. Training is a stress on the body. So if you are just pushing your body super hard all the time, that is adding stress to your body that is releasing cortisol. And again, this is a good thing. We want our bodies to release cortisol, but when we're, if we're doing it all day, every day and then not allowing enough rest and recovery so that our body can actually process all those things and make those adaptations, that's when we start to get into trouble.

Kevin: 31:50

Great. So actually paying attention to how you're training, not to the level that you can see on social media, or I get in pop-up ads on various things. That suggest, oh, you've reached, this is the one that I get. You want a six pack as a guy, and then it says various ages and says exact. This is the exercise you should do. If you want a six pack between the ages of 25 and 35, is it crunches? And then there's another picture for 35 to 45 and 45 fit five. And then everyone, there's some like generated image of this guy who's just absolutely shredded and you're like, but there's not like one exercise that's actually going to do it. The whole idea that you can like. Do a specific exercise that's going to key in on fat being stored in a specific area of the body is complete baloney. Yes. that's just not how the body metabolizes fat.

Angie: 32:38

But going back to what we can do, the biggest thing that we need to be more aware of is, again, since we were losing estrogen or we've lo, if you've already gone through menopause and you are post menopause, you're, you've lost estrogen. That changes the way that your body processes different things that you eat. So we just have to be more aware and more intentional with our nutrition choices. We have to make sure that we're prioritizing protein and that we are taking in carbohydrates. We still need carbohydrates as runners. Don't let anyone tell you differently than that. We just have to be a little bit more strategic with our carbohydrate intake. We have to think about it more. We have to be, again, more intentional. I know I've said that word several times, but that's telling you how important that is. Weight gain is not inevitable, though it is common. there is, there are things that you can do about it. And regulating stress is one of the biggest things is really becoming aware of the stress that you have in your life and doing things to help de-stress and understanding that exercise is also a stress on the body. And this is one of the reasons why so many people gain weight during marathon training. there's a couple of different reasons, but this is one of them because stress, marathon training is a really big stress on the body. So if you're not getting enough rest and recovery, then your body's just accumulating stress instead of adapting to stress. And one of the. Side effects of stress accumulation is weight gain. your body's not able to use the energy as effectively because of the chronically high levels of cortisol in the body.

Kevin: 34:06

Right? And ironically, adding extra fuel to the fire is actually gonna be a way to not store as much food on your body in the form of fat, because. if you're under fueling yourself in an effort to try and lose weight, your body just thinks that you're not fueling it and it's gonna hold onto it as tight as it possibly can and as tight as it possibly can is forming fat and more additional fat on you.

Angie: 34:26

Yeah, we don't want that. Alright, number four. there's some myths or some, I shouldn't say myths, but more of a controversy about strength training and it's. Decreasing. I don't wanna say there's a controversy around it because I think pretty much everyone, and I know that's a blanket statement, but pretty much most people out there, especially scientists or any sort of, people in the fitness world are acknowledging the idea, or, I would like to say the fact that strength training is. Essential at this point in our life. it really is essential throughout our whole life. but especially during our forties and beyond because muscle mass, like I mentioned, we, we start to lose muscle mass. Automatically after the age of 30. So we need to strength train in order to maintain that muscle mass and of course, build muscle mass. Strength training is the key. However, there are people out there that will tell you strength training's the only thing you need to do. Like you, you shouldn't be doing zone two cardio. You shouldn't be doing any of these things. All you should really be focusing on is strength training, and again. That's a lie, especially if you're a runner. if you're a runner, you need to run. And that's I think, one of the biggest holes that I saw in this area, which is why. we have the program that we have because there are a lot of people that love running and wanna keep running. And so this whole idea of not doing zone two cardio, that just doesn't work for me. But we do have to do strength training. That is still a non-negotiable, but it's just. Part of the puzzle. It's not the entire puzzle. It's not the only thing we should be doing. And also there's a lot of people out there that are telling you have to lift heavy for you to get muscle adaptations and for you to grow muscle. That's also not true. Lifting heavy is great, and believe me, I have a whole lesson on it inside my program about the benefits of lifting heavy. Because lifting heavy not only helps to build. Muscle mass and muscle strength. It also allows for some neurological adaptations in the body, like the neuromuscular connection, that connection between your brain and your body. It helps to strengthen that too. So there are a lot of benefits of lifting heavy weights. It's not the only way to get stronger though if you are lifting to failure, which means that you are going to the point where your muscles, it is very difficult for you to do another repetition where you're taking your muscle to the point where if you do another one. You, are your form is sacrificed or you're just literally not able to do another rep that's taking that muscle to the point of failure. You're gonna get stronger as long as you allow proper recovery and nutrition afterwards, because if you're taking your muscle to failure, whether or not you're lifting lighter weights for more repetitions or heavier weights for lower repetitions, if you're taking your body to failure and then you're not allowing the recovery and the nutrition, you're not gonna build. Stronger, you're just gonna be breaking the muscle down because during those training sessions, you're actually breaking the muscle down and it's during the recovery, as long as you give the body the building blocks that it needs, which is protein and carbohydrates, that the body can build back stronger than it was before.

Kevin: 37:31

So it's really, it's the type of lifting that people prefer. Like you're very big on lift heavy because there are additional benefits.

Angie: 37:39

But I also like it also, it's very I like lifting heavy and I like feeling really strong and lifting up a big heavy weight and be like, yeah, I just did that. You know what I mean? Like we just put a huge weight rack in our garage and I did squats yesterday with the barbell, and I like, it felt really good because it just makes me feel really strong.

Kevin: 37:59

Okay. Fair enough. But then there's other things like step up that I particularly enjoy doing. Step up. Step

Angie: 38:04

Up are a fantastic exercise that I think every runner should do,

Kevin: 38:07

but it's very difficult to do Step up with a high weight. Like it's difficult, especially if you're stepping up onto a relatively tall thing.

Angie: 38:14

and so this is a really cool thing about Step Up versus squats, if we wanna just address this real quick. Okay. And especially with you as our physics expert, when we look at the line of pull. And the like the axis of the movement, step ups actually put similar, like you don't have to have as heavy of a weight in a step up versus a squat. Because of the angle of the joint angle and the force that's actually being placed through the glutes, you can actually get more force through the glutes with a lower weighted step up than you can with a higher weighted squat.

Kevin: 38:48

But then because it's a lower weight, you end up being able to do a lot more of them. Like I literally did. Yes and

Angie: 38:54

no. so it depends.

Kevin: 38:55

I did step ups and squats today. Yeah. And I made it to 25 on step ups. And with far more weight on the bar. I did eight squats. Yeah. And both of them, by the time I made it to the last one, I'm like, I cannot do very many more of this. Yeah. But my numbers were completely different and I was stepping up. I think it's the height of the box and what if you're holding a weight or you're putting a weight vest on, that is a way to do a heavier lift on that. Like you can step up onto a lower height. You can step up with just your body weight and. That's not necessarily heavier lifting, but if you step up onto a higher step, I think it's not necessarily a heavy lift, but it is a much more physical demand on you because of the angle of the lift.

Angie: 39:36

Exactly. And so it's still putting that same amount of force or sometimes even a greater force through the muscles that you're targeting. Okay, so it feels harder, but you're actually lifting lighter. Because of the exercise itself.

Kevin: 39:48

Yeah. So it feels harder, but because it's lighter, I, I then my head says, I can do more reps of this.

Angie: 39:53

Okay. And that's fine. But like the reason that I love this idea too is that there are some people that don't like squats because of lower back. Or they're, they have lower back issues and squats don't feel comfortable, or they don't like the way that the barbell feels on their shoulders. I know that. That's definitely one of my limiting factors when it comes to the amount of weight that I can squat is And then

Kevin: 40:13

we're gonna need one of those cushions you put on the bar.

Angie: 40:15

Oh yeah. But that's one of the reasons that you can leg press more than you can squat is because your body's at a different angle and you don't have to require the same levels of stabilization and your shoulders and all the other things that are involved when you're doing a squat versus when you're just lying on your back doing a leg press. Because

Kevin: 40:31

leg press was like your favorite exercise when you were in like high school and college. I loved the leg press.

Angie: 40:35

did you already know that? Or you just assumed Just

Kevin: 40:38

B, both. Oh

Angie: 40:39

God. I love the leg press. Maybe that'll be our next addition to our home gym. Just because but that, think about it, right? because of the angle and because of what, the way that your body is, targeting that muscle, you can do a lot more weight because you don't have some of the other limiting factors that would limit you during a squat.

Kevin: 40:54

Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah.

Angie: 40:56

What do we actually need? Okay. Women runners over 40 males. This applies to you for the most part. Also, just thank you, but just less so like I,'cause I think that this is the biggest difference is all of this applies whether you're male or female. It's just that women. Because of the hormone changes that we experienced during this phase of our life, it just seems a lot more dramatic. Is that fair to say?

Kevin: 41:18

I, it seems a lot more dramatic, but I think that all men could also benefit from these as the pillars of their training philosophy. Yeah,

Angie: 41:25

I for sure agree. So the first thing that we need to do is strength train. Okay. For sure. We have to be strength training, whether you're a runner or just a normal person. If you have. Friends that aren't runners. Why? Because'cause runners aren't normal.

Kevin: 41:40

You said a runner or a normal person? Yeah.

Angie: 41:42

let's be real. We're all a little abnormal, right? who, who goes out and runs for fun. We do. and I'm totally good with that. I'm totally fine. I don't wanna be a normal person. look at what's normal in our society and our culture today. Fair enough. if we look at what is actually normal, the center of that bell curve, I'm very glad that I'm not in the middle there. but. Whether you have people in your life that are runners or other people that are not runners. Everyone needs to be strength training, and that is a blanket statement that I will tell you. It doesn't mean that everyone should be doing the same exercises. It doesn't mean that everyone should be doing the same thing like lifting heavy, because people have different limitations. People have, previous. Accidents and literal changes in their physiology that they've experienced. Who knows what's going on, but you need to train as an individual. But strength training is very important. Some sort of resistance training is extremely important for your overall health and also for your performance as a runner. And we also have to be focused on your movement quality. And injury prevention and strength training is the way to do that. As a physical therapist for the past 18 years, I can tell you that I've done exercises pretty much with every single patient I've ever treated, and at some point in time there's some people that have come in with Such low level? I can't even say that because there are even people that come in with super high levels of pain that need a lot of pain management at the beginning. I usually try to start them on an exercise as soon as possible. Sometimes it's that first visit. Sometimes it's maybe visit two or three, but I try to get them exercising within the limitations of their pain. As quickly as possible, because that's what's actually going to heal the body. It's not the electric stimulation or the massage or the hot packs, it's the exercise and the movement that they're doing.

Kevin: 43:26

but that e-stim feels so good.

Angie: 43:28

Doesn't,

Kevin: 43:29

does it? It's one of my favorites from college.

Angie: 43:32

All right, so we have to be strength training. You need to be training at different intensities. You need low to moderate intensity. You need high intensity training, and depending on what your goal is in your current training cycle or what your big overall goal is, those different intensities need to be. Different ratios in your training plan, and that's one of the reasons that following a training plan is such a good idea because you can make sure that you're not leaving anything out at any given time,

Kevin: 43:59

right? The ratios change, but everything is still in there. Regardless of what your goal is, all the intensities should be in all of the training plans. Alright, next. Fuel, like you mean it. I love the way that you've got this written out. This means making sure that you are putting in more protein before you start thinking about reducing your level of carbs. it's leading with what do I need to make sure that I've got covered and then we're not cutting carbs out. We're making sure that we've filled our body with the protein that it needs, but we do need some carbs to make sure that those proteins. molecules can actually get utilized too, right? So it's not abandon everything. And

Angie: 44:34

also, and also carbohydrates are our energy source, like they are your body's preferred energy source. So we need protein to build muscle, but we need carbs for energy. And especially as a runner, carbohydrates are your body's preferred energy source. All right. The next thing that we need, if you haven't heard me say the word rest and recovery and adaptation enough in this episode, is recovery and nervous system regulation or nervous system adaptation. I don't like to think, when people think of nervous system regulation, they only, they think about. Calm and meditation, and that is definitely important. But getting our nervous systems to become more adaptable and more resilient to stress is really the key because stress is gonna come, like we put stress on ourselves intentionally, like through our training and through, personal development and growth. Like we do things that are uncomfortable so that we can grow and that requires stress. But when that stress gets out of control, then it's putting us down instead of helping us. To actually grow.

Kevin: 45:33

Yeah. Regulation is a good way of looking at it. It's not just being calm no matter what. It's getting yourself excited for things that you should be excited. Yeah. But then being able to calm yourself down afterwards.

Angie: 45:43

Yeah. So it's the resiliency of it, right? Allowing your body to bounce between states, like we need sympathetic activation. there's a lot of people that'll tell you like, that's not good. But yes, we do. We need the sympathetic activation. We also need to be able to shift our body. Over into parasympathetic mode to into that rest and recovery mode. And it's when your body gets stuck in one mode, that's where it starts to become problematic. And then finally, the biggest shift, I think, because this is the underlying current to all of it, is really starting to shift our mindset and shift the way that we are thinking about ourselves, our bodies, and what we are capable of in this next phase of our life. There are so many people. But especially women that have been obsessed with weight, because this is the thing, these are what we have been fed for our entire lives. We grew up in the peak of diet culture. We grew up with, God knows how many diet fads, right? if you think about the number of different diet fads we've been through in the decades that we've been alive, it's pretty insane. And so we have been hyper-focused and hypersensitive to all of this because that's what we see. And so there are so many people. That are so focused on that weight and like being at a certain weight or losing weight. And we were just having this conversation inside of our membership last week because one of our members said she wanted to lose weight and she prefaced the question and said, Angie, I'm gonna talk about something that you don't like talking about. And I. Said, there's really no topic I don't like talking about. No topic is ever off limits to me. And she's I wanna lose weight. I'm like, okay, that's fine. that's if that's your goal, that's fine. Let's just make sure it's coming from the right place. That is my only thing as a coach that I think is important is if you wanna lose weight. I'm not here to tell you that your goal is good or bad. I just wanna make sure that you're doing it from a place of self-love. I wanna make sure that you're doing it from a mindset of empowerment versus. Of, I'm not good enough as I am right now, and if I lose weight, that will make me better. That will make me okay. That will make me faster. That will make me. More beautiful, like whatever that might be. it's, we have this myth in our head that having a smaller body is going to lead to fill in the blank. Whether it's improvements in performance, whether it's our spouse looking at us more longingly, whether it's just feeling better in our skin or in our clothing. We think that having a smaller body is going to give that to us. And I think that's a big myth that we've been sold our entire lives. And so I think that it's really important for us to shift into, okay, what do I want my body to be able to do? if you wanna be able to run a certain distance, if you wanna be able to run a certain pace, what is required for you to do that? you're gonna have to fuel your body, you're gonna have to do your training sessions, and that does not always align with restriction that. Is needed in order to just lose weight. Because I don't think that most people, like they say they wanna lose weight, but really what most people want when they say that is they wanna lose fat. They don't wanna lose muscle, right? And so I think that it's important for us to be focusing on the right thing. So if we can take our focus away from just a number on a scale and focus on. I wanna build muscle so that my body is stronger so that I can then burn more fat, more efficiently than great. But we just have to be making sure that we're focusing on the right thing, which I think in this phase is strong over skinny and building over losing. And I think that when we focus on those things, then weight loss, fat loss can become a byproduct and we can do it in a way that's very sustainable and that feels good in our own, in our body.

Kevin: 49:16

Yeah, it's tricky to make sure that you're like, oh, I might want to get my body to a place that can help me most be successful with these goals that I want. But for so long there have been a lot of runners that are like, a smaller body will help me accomplish these goals. And that's just one, it's not true. but I. It's important to, if as soon as you start thinking about whatever running goal you have, if your first thought is I need to lose weight to get to that goal, then you've gotta reframe that thing of, am I strong enough to accomplish that goal? And when you lead with I need to be strong enough to accomplish that goal, then it's less about the number and more. My body's gonna look like whatever it needs to look like, so that I can have the strength on it so that I can actually give it a shot of chasing whatever that big goal is,

Angie: 50:01

right? Because sometimes those two goals can work against each other, and that's really what we don't want to happen. I don't want people fighting themselves because they think that they need to lose weight, but they wanna build muscle. And so they're restricting calories, like to the point like they're over restricting calories and so their body doesn't have. What it needs to actually build the muscle and they actually end up losing muscle in the process. But, that's a huge topic for another day, but I think it is just very important for us to at least mention that mindset, is really important and what we're focusing on in this phase of life becomes really important because that's going to guide our actions and our behaviors. Hopefully I felt like we were talking fast in this episode and it still went like over 50 minutes. so hopefully it wasn't too overwhelming'cause the goal was really to help reduce the overwhelm and help you understand that training during perimenopause and post menopause. Aren't extremely different than other times in our life. It just becomes more important for you to listen to your body. It becomes more important for you to go by effort, to take recovery days when needed, to make sure that you're really nourishing your body with good food and good nutrition instead of trying to restrict just to lose weight. So my warning and. Thing for you to keep your eye out. when you see something in social media that is giving you an all or nothing type of. A viewpoint or saying that every person should do this or no one should ever do this. put your red flags up. Put your red flags up. And I'm not saying don't listen and completely blow those people off, but do some research, right? Or reach out to me and ask Hey, have you heard this? Do you know if there's any research behind this? I would love to be that resource for you. So if you don't follow us already, make sure you are following us over on Instagram at real life runners, and really understand to, how to. Tune in and tap into the wisdom that your body holds for you, now and in the future.

Kevin: 51:52

Yeah. No, that's fantastic. Yeah. Blanket statements on the internet, usually just there. So you'll watch the rest of the video.

Angie: 51:56

Yeah, exactly. So if you do want help to tailor your training and your lifestyle so that you can keep running strong. Through your forties and beyond with science, evidence-based information and not just a bunch of hype. That's why we've created the Real Life Runners team. We've created that real life runners team to give you a personalized training plan because like we said, it matters that your training plan is personalized to you and where you are right now. It's important that you meet yourself where you are. And understand that things are gonna need to adjust and adapt along the way, and that's why every person on our team gets a personalized training plan. We have live weekly coaching calls where you can come and get all of your questions answered and get supported by other amazing people that are going through these things. along the way with you, we have monthly guest workshops. We're doing an amazing challenge right now called the Mindful Miles Challenge. Which is helping us to again, tap into that wisdom that our body is trying to communicate with us. So if that sounds good to you, I would love to enjoy, to invite you to join the team. you can check that out over@realliferunners.com slash team. I'd love to invite you to come get the plan, get the help, get the support that you need. And if this episode resonated with you, also share it with a friend who's also navigating midlife or running in midlife, because that's our goal is just to continue to help more people. As always, thanks for joining us. This has been The Real Life Runners podcast, Now, get out there and run your life.