Real Life Runners with Angie and Kevin Brown

415: Injuries Are Not Normal — Let’s Stop Normalizing Pain in Running

• Angie Brown

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Let’s set the record straight: pain and injury are not just things runners have to live with. In this episode of the Real Life Runners podcast, we’re taking on one of the most damaging myths in the running world — the belief that hurting is normal, expected, or even necessary if you want to improve.

Spoiler alert: it’s not.

Yes, injuries are common — but that doesn’t make them inevitable. And accepting them as “part of the process” only keeps runners stuck in a frustrating cycle of pain, inconsistency, and burnout. We’re here to break that cycle.

We’ll share real-life stories from our own journey and from runners we’ve coached — and we’ll unpack some of the most common injury drivers, including muscle imbalances, overtraining, poor recovery habits, underfueling, and chronic stress.

More importantly, we’ll give you practical tools to run strong and stay healthy:
✅ Why strength training is non-negotiable
✅ How to personalize your plan to fit your life and body
✅ What proper recovery really looks like
✅ Why underfueling is sabotaging your progress (and how to fix it)
✅ How to stop outsourcing your intuition to your watch
✅ And the mindset shift that will help you run for the long haul, not just the next race

Running shouldn’t hurt. And it’s time we stop normalizing it. Whether you’re just starting out or you’ve been running for decades, this episode will challenge how you think about pain, progress, and what’s actually possible for you.


00:43 The Trigger: Challenging Common Narratives

02:02 Understanding Pain vs. Discomfort

04:31 The Harmful Impact of Some Medical Advice

05:32 Rant: Misguided Medical Opinions

08:56 Reframing Pain and Injury in Running

10:38 The Elite Athlete Dilemma

19:22 Consistency Over Intensity

22:45 5 Common Causes of Running Injuries

39:41 5 Ways To Avoid Injuries



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Angie:

If you've ever thought that pain is just part of the running process or that pain is just part of how you improve this episode is for you, because the truth is just because running injuries are common, that does not mean that they are normal. Injuries are not. Normal. Injuries don't have to be part of the process. This is a hot take and I'm excited to get into this with you guys because I really want you to understand that running injuries. Are optional and that you might not hear from a lot of people. So stay tuned. Alright, so this is a gonna be a fun episode today. Welcome back to the podcast y'all.

Kevin:

This is gonna be a spicy episode.

Angie:

I like being spicy. so a little background of why we're doing this podcast right now. Was, I was scrolling through Instagram and I saw a very popular Instagram personnel personality, who is also a doctor talking about an injury that she sustained, and she just blew it off yep, this is just what happens when you're training hard, and it just instantly just Shot me in the heart because it is not, normal. Injuries are not normal, and I think that this is one of those narratives that is out there that people don't even question, that people just accept as truths because there are statistics to back up a lot of these things. Over 80% of runners get. Injured at some point in their life. Over half, over 50% of runners get injured every single year. And these are statistics that I am working really hard to try to start to reverse, to start to affect even just a little bit chipping at, chipping away at it little by little. And I want to invite you into that movement with me because the truth is, injuries are not normal. Pain is not part of the process. It is. A very common experience that a lot of runners have. But the big thing that I want you to take away from this episode is that just because it's common does not make it normal.

Kevin:

Yeah. I think there's a lot of nuance in that pain is not part of the process. Discomfort is going to be part, is involved. Yes.

Angie:

Yes.

Kevin:

there are aspects of running that are a hundred percent uncomfortable. That in the moment you're like, man. I, it would be more comfortable if I was sitting on the couch right, than doing my eighth quarter repeat. Like it is uncomfortable. The third mile of a 5K.

Angie:

Yeah. When your legs get that lactate burn, that is not a comfortable sensation.

Kevin:

No. That is uncomfortable, but that is very different from pain, especially. Day in, day out pain. That is not okay.

Angie:

And especially when it pain then turns into injury. Yeah. Because I think that there, this is a spectrum that we're talking about, so I agree. I think that discomfort we've got nuance

Kevin:

and a spectrum.

Angie:

Oh my goodness. Look out. It's like a podcaster's dream right here. And our podcaster, a physical therapist, human that really likes to analyze and philosophize about things. Perfect.

Kevin:

Yeah. And it's not very, click Beatty though. Like we're living in gray area. Of like action. We always live in gray area. I know, but we're like thoroughly, carefully explaining the nuance of the situation. How are we possibly gonna come up with a headline that's clickbait and gets everybody to listen?

Angie:

I already came up with it. Let's stop normalizing pain and running. I love it. Injuries are not normal. I think that is a headline that you don't see all the time. That's good. And I think that. It is a spectrum like, yes, I do agree with you, that discomfort can be part of the process. It is not comfortable when you're trying to grow. Growth is by nature, uncomfortable because in order to grow, you have to get outside of your comfort zone. So there is discomfort in growth, there's physical discomfort, there's mental discomfort, there's emotional discomfort. There's all these thoughts that pop up, there's all these identity changes that are going on. So yeah, there's some discomfort, but I don't think, in my opinion, and this. people can say, oh, this is just a matter of semantics. And I would disagree with that because I don't think that discomfort is the same thing as pain, and I don't think that pain is the same thing as injury. I think that discomfort can lead to pain and then pain can lead to injury, which is why it's on the spectrum. And that's where, we have to figure out, okay, what is normal? What is acceptable and okay for us to experience during our running journey, and when does it get to that point where we have to say, okay, wait a second. My body's talking to me here. Because that's really what pain is. Pain, especially when it turns into an injury, is your body's way of communicating with you and your body is talking to you all the time. And I just wanna say this because. There are so many people out there and there are so many clients that we have worked with throughout the years and me specifically as a physical therapist and now as a running coach with our clients inside of the real life runners team that have been told. You should probably stop running like you have arthritis in your knees, you should probably stop running. Or people, I'm thinking of one client right now who came to me and said, I've got bone on bone, in my knees, and I, gosh, I wish I would be able to run again. And I looked at her and I said, you can, as long as you start doing it the right way. And I just gave her like this. Inkling of hope. I think that not, it doesn't, it didn't seem at the time that I was having this conversation with her, that anyone had ever given her that hope before. And there were so many people like that, that just the doctors tell them this and, oh my gosh. Actually, you know what? Speaking of a rant, let me talk about this ex example first. I love

Kevin:

ranting Angie's the best

Angie:

because, this is another rant that I need to have on Instagram because. I was talking to a friend who is 22 years old, 22 years old, when she was 18, freshman in college. She herniated a disc in her back. She went to one of the best medical systems in the country at her university, and they told her. You are just going to have back pain for the rest of your life. And I, she told me that, and I want to figure out who that doctor is and go kick the doctor in the chin, because that is the most ridiculous statement that I've ever heard. And I've heard this from other patients throughout my years in the physical therapy practice. But. Are you kidding me? as an orthopedic surgeon to tell an 18-year-old girl, you're gonna have back pain the rest of your life. You have the back of a 40-year-old right now, and when you're 40 you're gonna have the back of an 80. no without any sort of hope or answer or anything, it just, it blows my mind and it just is so much. More evidence of how our medical system is so broken and it drives me up the wall. So if that is you. If you know someone who that is part of their story that they have been told by a doctor or a physical therapist, or a chiropractor or whoever, some sort of medical professional or even a non-medical professional that they're just gonna have to deal with this pain for the rest of their life, or this is just how the way it is, or you should just never run again because your knees can't handle it, call bs. That is such. Bs. That's, I just can't, I really wanna use the real word here too, but I don't curse on the podcast Typically. We're not

Kevin:

cursing. We're almost cursing. We're talking about in like inflicting violence on the medical people.

Angie:

Kicking people in the shin is not that big of a deal.

Kevin:

I know, but you feel like he said, you're gonna be in pain for the rest of your life. You were then going to wake up every morning and go kick him in the shin so that he could experience similar pain for the rest of his life. I

Angie:

don't, I'm say every morning. I just wanted to go find him.

Kevin:

Every morning you're gonna have the shin of an 80-year-old when you're 40.

Angie:

How many times I kick it. But yeah, it's just, it's ridiculous to me. And I think that we strip people. Of hope and of a quality of life and people just, especially people that don't know any better. I thank God that I have the medical background that I have and the knowledge and the experience that I have and can advocate for myself and for my patients. But there are so many other people that. Aren't in that field, are not in the medical field, do not have that type of knowledge. And they see doctors as experts as I can understand that there's nothing wrong with that, but we as medical professionals have an obligation to, if we are going by the Hippocratic Oath, to first do no harm. And I don't think that doctors understand. What kind of harm, those types of words and those types of statements can do to a person psychologically, emotionally, and physically. And we need to be so much more aware of that. back to you, if this is you, if you are a medical professional, be very aware of the words that you use to all of your patients. And if you are not, don't. Take all of it as truth. Take everything from every professional with a grain of salt. Always get a second opinion. If you don't like the first one, it's not hopeless. Injuries and pain are not part of the process. Running is actually good for your knees. That's another one that's I that we hear all the time. That's related, but also not related. But my whole point in this is to really help you understand that this myth shows up again and again, and it can be so harmful. And so today I really want to show you why. This whole idea of pain is just part of the process is not true. Where it comes from, first of all, why it's not true, and then what are some of the things that you can start doing about it that actually are causing the injury and actually causing the pain so that you know what you can actually start to address so that you can start to get out of that cycle and start to release this very harmful narrative that a lot of us have heard since we started running.

Kevin:

Yeah, because you can put it on t-shirts and posters and that phrase is not, pain is part of the process. That phrase is no pain, no gain, or what I learned from one of my very early bosses when I was selling running shoes back as a teenager, he always said that there are two types of runners, which you hate this line just as much as all the other ones, but there are two types of runners. Runners who have been hurt, and runners who haven't been hurt. Yet that was his analysis of everybody around him and he said it.

Angie:

He also is the one that put everybody in a stability shoe. I've got that issue with him also. He's no longer with us, RIP. There you go. but still, that doesn't make what he said. Okay.

Kevin:

It's true. But this man defined old school mentality, like he really did and he. Coached some very elite athletes. He himself was very talented and he was big on pushing the envelope, which I think is where a lot of this comes from. If you're really pushing boundaries with some elite athletes, like internationally, elite athletes, then there is an aspect of pushing the boundary of how far can you push your body and then pain and injury may show up as a result. I think what you are tackling here is that is not a normal way of existence for. Everybody else, like there may be a small group of people who are training to win a gold medal. I think that you are pushing the envelope at a level that most of humanity is not. Like when I say I wanna push myself and see what I can get out of myself, that is very different than I wanna push so hard that I wanna see if I'm gonna be one of the best in the entire world. I'm comparing myself to myself When you start comparing to others. Then I think it goes into a more slippery direction of, I need to keep pushing. I have to push through this because if I take any days off, then I'm gonna lose even more ground on that person. I think that this competition idea leads to no pain, no gain. You've gotta push. Always push through it, ignore the body signals and just keep going.

Angie:

Yeah, and I think that this. Idea of no paying, no gain gets reinforced all the time in sports and fitness and in our culture, and it can be very damaging. there's runners out there that. Almost bond over injuries as these badges of honor and oh, you've got shin splints today. I've got my plantar fascitis acting up again. And we, and people laugh about it because if not they'd cry. There's that whole saying too. But people actually bond over injuries and I just think wouldn't, aren't there better things we could be bonding over? granted yes, we're going to be bonding over. Different things that we go through in our lives and unfortunately, injuries are a thing that a lot of runners experience, but holding injuries as badges of honor, I think is a very dangerous and a very slippery slope because this can lead to ignoring red flags really. Ignoring the body because like I mentioned earlier, your body is always talking to you. Your body's always giving you signs and symptoms to let you know what's going on. And your body, your foot can't just say, Hey, time to pull back some mileage this week. And It communicates via your nerves, via your pain, nerves and pain signals of oh, there's a little soreness. There's a little stiffness here, and now there's a little achiness. there's different levels. usually someone doesn't just. Especially with running injuries since running 10. Running injuries tend to be more, chronic and what's the word I'm looking for? They're

Kevin:

overuse injuries. They're overuse

Angie:

injuries, right? And so they creep up on you over time. So they start small and then you ignore them, and then they get bigger. And then they get bigger, and then they get bigger. And this, ignoring our body and ignoring the signs that our body is trying to give us. That prevents a lot of people from adjusting their training early because we're taught to just push through, no pain, no gain, and if we think that it's normal, if we think that pain is part of the process, why would we adjust anything? Because this is how it's. Supposed to feel. This is what a lot of runners think, and this is really encouraging over training and burnout, which then normalizes dysfunction and poor training practices. And that's, in my opinion, why so many runners get hurt because they're. Training in a way that their body is not yet ready for. They're trying to overload the body with mileage or with speed, trying to push the pace because they have this idea in their head of what runners should do or what a good runner should do, or what a good pace is. And that number is completely arbitrary and completely different for everybody, and they don't realize the importance of some of the other things that we're going to talk about today and how so much pain. Can be avoided and injuries especially can be avoided. Now I'm talking about these overuse. Recurring chronic types of injuries that so many experience, because that is the majority. Sometimes freak accidents happen, right? Sometimes you're running and you step in a hole that you don't see and you mess up your foot or your ankle. That's a different story. Those injuries are very unfortunate when they happen, but that's not the type of injury that I'm talking about today. The ones that I'm talking about today are those overuse injuries that so many runners experience that kind of creep up on you over time.

Kevin:

Okay, is there a category of injury that's like in between, like your shoe style changes, you try out a different shoe and something about the new shoe causes? fairly quick onset of various paints. Like you go from a shoe that, that is more rigid to one that's a little more flexible and suddenly plantar fasciitis flares up on you. Is that something that it's like a middle ground. It's I did change something. Maybe I should look at these signals that I'm getting and see if I adjust from there. Or is that kind of like a, I don't know, just very quickly waving a red flag at you because I feel like something like runner's knee Which I dealt with for

Angie:

Yeah.

Kevin:

I don't know ever. it certainly felt like for a long time until I met an angel. and then, it strengthened a hip appropriately. That was me. Yes. Yes it was. But it seems like something like runners need, what's your

Angie:

question?

Kevin:

It just gradually ever so slightly, got a little bit worse. Over the course of a month where I've had like plantar fascia to show up and that was like, I felt fine one day and the next day I got outta bed and it felt like I was stepping on nails.

Angie:

But it didn't just show up like it was probably talking to you over time and you just didn't realize it. I think that's one of the biggest things and proves my point here, is that we're just taught to ignore a lot of these things and then all of a sudden it seems like it happens overnight, but it totally does not. And I think that, you mentioned. A shoe change. I just had this issue. I just got a new pair of shoes and the shoes that I was running in that I've been running in for a couple of years now. The Brooks launch, they changed the shoe, they changed the heel drop on the shoe, and so I started feeling just, I think I only ran in them four or five times, and I could feel more tightness in my plantar fascia. I could start to feel it. So I knew that if I were to continue running in those, that something would have happened and. I know that I have tightness in my plantar fascia, in my calves in my ankle, and I don't do enough mobility. So I have a choice. I have a choice that I can either ramp up the mobility and all those things so that I could wear those shoes, or I could just get a different pair of shoes. But if I were to still keep running in those shoes, I could tell very quickly that. That was not going to lead to a good outcome. Does that answer your question? Yeah.

Kevin:

So this actually makes a lot of sense because, I haven't dealt with something like plantar fascitis since I was in high school, and I was very much running with a philosophy of if it hurts, just pretend that it doesn't. Yeah. that's really how we went to practice on most days.

Angie:

and that makes sense because you are part of a competitive team and I think that there's a lot of people that are training that way that maybe were competitive at some point in their life and they're just bringing that mentality into running. And there's also people that believe that. especially the people that were not athletes before, they've heard these mantras and they believe that this is what they should be doing, even though it's actually not,

Kevin:

because they might have heard it from somebody who's been running for 30 or 40 years

Angie:

or from a commercial On tv.

Kevin:

Yeah. Or from a commercial.

Angie:

think about all the different, and that's why I say this is not one thing. This is like very deep in the culture that's giving us these messages. And so what I want you to understand. Is that pain is not a sign that you're pushing yourself appropriately. There's a lot of people that think it is, if it hurts, that means I'm doing it right. That means I'm challenging myself. And this was one of the statements that this social media person said that kind of triggered me into this whole, if you follow me on Instagram, I put a reel about this, today, and then now we're doing a podcast about it because I wanted to go deeper into it. So pain is not a sign that you're pushing yourself appropriately. It's a sign that your body is not adequately prepared for the load that you're putting on it. So yes, it's a sign that you're pushing yourself, but it's not a sign that you're pushing yourself intelligently. It's a sign that you're pushing yourself over the limits that your body is able to handle. And that's why pain shows up.'cause again. Pain is your body's way of communicating yourself or of communicating to you to let you know, okay, hey, too much time to pull back now. We need to start listening, and that's really the key here is we need to start listening to our bodies. We need to start understanding the signals that our body is giving us, and then adjust things appropriately so that we can avoid pain and we can avoid injury, and we can stay consistent in our training. I know you had a comment about. About, pushing the envelope.'cause this is a conversation that Kevin and I have had before too, and you started this earlier with if you are a very elite performer and you're trying to make the Olympics, or you are a professional runner and your income literally. Lays on is dependent upon your performance. A lot of runners get paid based on their performance in certain races, if they hit certain times or if they place in certain, a certain place. So it does matter that they are running fast. There are times actually do matter because it is reflected in their paycheck. But most of you listening to this podcast, and I'd venture to say probably all of you aren't. that's not your experience, that's not your running journey right now. That we're not, that's not the reason we're doing this. If

Kevin:

you've paid entry fees to every race you've ever run, and no one's ever flown you in and given you an entrance fee for showing up at their race, it's probably better that you are pushing yourself. You're like, I'd like to test my limits, but you're not running so close to the red line. Yeah. Day in and day out that you're like, you know what? I'm feeling a little worn out today. Maybe I should take a rest day, an extra rest day, a nice easy recovery walk instead of being like, ah, I guess you know, I'm not feeling great. I'll go for an easy hour. that's not a recovery day for most people. Yeah. When you're dealing with people who are literally getting paid five and six figure salaries for running really fast, the difference between taking a couple of weeks off might mean that they don't get. Get into a race and that just showing up to that race could be worth 10 grand to them. that is a very different mindset that person has. And while it's great to look to the elites and emulate certain aspects of their training, we are not those people. And so there's aspects that we should not emulate, and perhaps this is one of them. if your life is dependent on that income, then yes, I understand the whole aspect of pushing the envelope up to a point. Because then you get runners that get injured and then they lose whatever contract they had. it's a really fine line that they have to play. I think the line is a lot less fine. I don't think we have to dance as close to the line with, real life writers.

Angie:

I agree. And because consistency is the most. Important thing that is going to lead to your progress as a runner. And so if you feel like you need to continue to challenge yourself and get as close to that line as possible, that means that sometimes you're gonna go over it and you're gonna experience the pain or the injury, and that's gonna set you back. So instead of just like getting up to it, and then set back and then up to it, and then set back, what if you just stayed a little bit further away? And never actually cross that line and then just continue to make progress over time. that is an option too. And that's really the option that we're. Presenting here for you is to really reframe your running journey as a lifelong pursuit, not just as a short term thing of like, how fast can I get right now? It's really about changing the frame and like zooming out a bit and saying, okay, how can I do this successfully for as long as I want to do this for? And that's really what I wanna help you with today. So what I wanna do now is go through a list of reasons. For why injuries happen, and I want you to think about this and how this might apply to you. To say, okay, what's my body trying to tell me here?'cause that's really what I want you to start asking yourself. Anytime an injury pops up, or especially before, try to, catch it before it actually turns into an injury. And if you've got like a little bit of pain showing up, start asking yourself these questions. So okay, what could be causing this right now? So the first thing that I think is related to pretty much every injury that I've seen. Seen as a physical therapist is muscle weakness and or imbalance. And this is especially common in women over 40, really all runners over 40, but especially women over 40 due to the hormonal shifts and the muscle changes that we see in the body, the changes in collagen and are, connective tissue and all of these other things that are going on with our bodies. It can lead to muscle weakness and imbalance. And this is especially prevalent. In our glutes, like a lot of weakness in your glutes and in your hip muscles and in your core, that can lead to increased stress on your joints. specifically the knee. People talk about knee pain in runners all the time. A lot of times knee pain is not due to an actual problem with the knee itself. It's often due to weakness in the hips and because of the way that your foot hits the ground. The forces are going through your knee and they're not being absorbed properly by the body. So that increased force through the knee because of the weakness in the muscles, that's what's actually causing some of the breakdown and some of the pain to occur.

Kevin:

So you point out the super common in women, especially over 40, I think, super common in people who do a lot of treadmill running. Or very smooth sidewalk running and not because sidewalks are super hard. But because there's no change in what you're running on. It's super smooth surface and so you don't have to deal with anything lateral. And because of that, because you can just get into this straight line running motion, you don't have to activate your hips as much as you run, and you can get fairly productive running efforts. Before you get to this point where it's oh wait, I can only push so far because my hips don't provide the stability that I actually need. Even when you're running in a straight line. And then, we see this sometimes with athletes that go to a lot of treadmill because it's snowing outside. It stops snowing, all the white stuff melts and they go back outside and they're running on uneven surfaces and suddenly, bam, knee pain. And it's because they haven't. Had to worry about providing their own stability on a treadmill. Everything's nice and smooth. Yeah, this was one of my big issues because I wasn't appropriately developed through glutes and hips that I wasn't able to run on uneven surfaces without causing the pain. I was too used to running on sidewalks.

Angie:

Yeah. And it, for those of you that have younger kids, maybe you have kids in middle school or high school that are getting into running in cross country also, this is something that really pops up in that age group as well, again, due to those hormone shifts. Because of the body changes that we're seeing, especially in girls. So when girls go through puberty, the hi, their hips widen, their ligaments get looser, like everything is stretching out as their body is changing. And so this can lead also to a lot of weakness, specifically in the hips. This is why girls tend to have a lot of knee pain and a lot of shin splints and other issues like that. So if you have a daughter especially, but. This happens with boys as well, but especially with females, because of the changes that actually happen to the skeleton and the widening of the hips. During puberty. you have to have them strength training. You gotta get them into a strength program. If their school doesn't provide strength and conditioning, find a strength and conditioning coach. find stuff for them online. Reach out to somebody. Find a physical therapist in your area that can give you a workout program. It's not something that you have to necessarily go to. At multiple times per week. But find a professional that can give you a strengthening program for your kid, and then make sure that they do it if they want to stay injury free. The second thing that is a top cause for injury is doing too much too soon. So this is ramping up your speed or ramping up your mileage too fast. So it's essentially training errors, increasing your mileage, your speed, your volume, without allowing your body enough time to adapt. Now. If you are someone over 40 and maybe you're new to running, especially. It takes longer for your body to adapt. Now, and this is something that's really important to keep in mind. So the same way that you might have been able to ramp up when you were in your teens or in your twenties is not the same way that your body is now able to ramp up your training. So if you're someone that you know, you're like, oh, I used to run, and this is the same thing that I did when I was 35, but now you're 45 or you're 55, your body's different. And that's yes, you are the same person. But your body is different, and so it's really important for you to honor where you are right now in your life and in your training, and allow your body to gradually ramp itself back up because adaptation takes time. And if you're just adding training load to your body. Without the proper amount of time, you're just accumulating that stress and accumulating that load, not actually allowing that adaptation. So your tissues like your muscles, your tendons, your joints, all of these things need time to adapt to your training. If you're not giving it that amount of time and you're trying to ramp things up too quickly, that's a very good recipe for injury.

Kevin:

All right, so this one can be really tough for people to wrap their head around. I need to go slower. I need the buildup to go slower because I just wanna get back to where I was. It's a lot of comparison to previous self and one way to alleviate some of this mental driving yourself nuts is. Occasionally, it's okay if one day you do a little bump up, but it slides into your next point of making sure that you have enough recovery. It's okay if you're like, I used to be able to go out and run 45 minutes every day and now I'm at 30 and I wanna be able to go from 30 to 45, but it's probably better to go from 30 to 35 and then to 40 minutes and then to 45. Yeah. It's okay if you're like, can I just run 45? Sure. And then take a rest day on the next one, like it's okay to pulse up to something a little bit higher, a little bit abnormal for a day, and then pull back. As long as you have that actual pullback.

Angie:

And that really leads to number three, the third cause of injury, which is training too frequently without adequate recovery breaks. So trying to run every day or trying to run, jump from zero days of running into a half marathon training plan that now gives you four days of running without allowing your body to. Actually get to that point again, surefire recipe for injury, you have to have recovery. You have to ramp up appropriately. And then, like Kevin just said, you have to have the appropriate and adequate amount of recovery because your body takes again. Longer to adapt. So recovery becomes even more important because recovery is actually the time that your body gets stronger during your training. And this is one of the things that not a lot of people understand unless your listeners to this podcast, which puts you ahead of the game, which is awesome. When you are training, your body is actually breaking down. And during rest and recovery, that's when your body builds back. Stronger than it was before, as long as you're giving it yourself. Number four, which is proper fueling and nutrition. Okay, so another cause of injury. Cause number four that is very common is under fueling or poor nutrition. People that don't eat enough to support their training. That is a. Big cause of injury because if you're not eating enough, that leads to a condition called low energy availability or LEA. And this can lead to a condition called RED S, which is relative energy deficiency in sport, which used to be known as the female athlete triad. Now we realize that this happens to guys too, so thank you. So they've renamed it. But essentially if you're getting to a point of low energy availability, and then of course, especially if you go all the way to red S, that's REDS. Your tissues are breaking down, but it affects pretty much every system in your body. It affects your hormones, it your endocrine system, your circulatory system, your musculoskeletal system, your nervous system. All of the systems in your body are affected by low energy availability because like I said, during that recovery time, your body wants to build back stronger, but it's like trying to build a house without cement. If you have maybe some Some blocks and you have some wood, but you don't have cement and you don't have nails, you have nothing to actually hold the house together. It's not, you're not gonna get very far. You're not actually going to be able to build a strong house, and that's what nutrition gives you. If you give your body appropriate nutrition, that, especially protein and carbohydrates, that's going to allow your body to build stronger muscles, stronger bones, and when you don't. Then your muscle recovery and your bone density suffer, especially if you're a woman over 40 and you're in perimenopause or post menopause. We're already fighting this battle where we're losing muscle and we're losing bone because of the loss of estrogen that we're experiencing during these hormone shifts during this time of our lives. So if you then. Don't eat enough on top of that, you're just making it even worse and you're not giving your body what it needs in order to get stronger.

Kevin:

Yeah, this is one of my favorite, like exercise physiology studies. they were trying to determine what contributes to over training versus under fueling, and they determined essentially there is no such thing as over training. That was essentially the conclusion they got. That was their

Angie:

interpretation. It was their

Kevin:

interpretation, but. It. It leads to a good argument. Yeah. Of there is only under fueling. That as long as you provide enough fuel because the fuel helps all of the recovery process. They suggested that theoretically if there was enough fuel that you could continue to train now and sleep. Yes, I know it's you. You've got the point coming. I see it coming. That's why I made the point now. But the argument was, is that it was simply a lack of providing enough fuel that led to all of the over training injuries. And so if you're like, oh, I'm doing fine. I took a recovery day, but you reduced your calorie intake because you didn't go run on your recovery day. That's an issue. Like on a recovery day, you need to make sure that you're still fueling your body and so many people. Eat fewer calories on recovery day because they don't do the exercise. Yeah. So they're like, I don't need to take in the calories. But as you just pointed out, you need the calories on the recovery day because that's when you're doing the rebuilding.

Angie:

Yeah. And I, it's arguable of do you need more calories on those days even. And there is some debate and some discussion, I should say, in the. In the literature and amongst experts of when is it more important? It's just important both times, right? it's important, if we're gonna be real, like it's important on your training days and on your recovery days, you should not be eating a ton less calories on recovery days just because you're not exercising. All right, moving on to number five. The number five reason why injuries happen is lack of sleep and stress recovery. So if you are not sleeping well, if you're not getting enough sleep, or if the sleep that you are getting is not good quality sleep, or if you're constantly stressed out, What person in midlife doesn't experience stress, right? But if you're someone that's constantly stressed, your body can't repair because your nervous system is constantly in fight or flight mode. When you are under a lot of stress, your body, we basically have two main operating modes. We have sympathetic nervous system and parasympathetic nervous system. Granted, this is oversimplifying everything. I understand that. Okay. But. When we are very stressed and when our body does, or when we're overstressed, when we're under fueled, when we're undersleep. When we're undercovered, your body's in sympathetic mode. Think about how you feel when you don't get enough sleep. How much patience do you have? How much understanding do you have when your husband doesn't do the thing you asked him to do? How do you feel when you're not, when you haven't eaten enough? How's your patience level then? Like you, we know, we've all had these experiences where we're exhausted and, patience is just non-existent, right? every little thing seems to trigger you. Yeah. You're not alone. And that's because your nervous system. Is in sympathetic stress mode. And so your body cannot repair itself when you are stuck in stress mode because your rest and recovery and repair mode is your parasympathetic nervous system. So it's really important for us to get enough sleep and to understand how to decrease stress in our lives so that our body can switch over into parasympathetic mode so that you can actually recover and adapt to training because again. Recovery is when you get stronger, not during the training itself.

Kevin:

All right. So I know, we've been married for a long time. I know one of the best ways to feel less stressful is just have somebody tell you to feel less stressful. It's always, that's

Angie:

a surefire way. It's

Kevin:

always a good win. it's guaranteed.

Angie:

Why don't you just relax a little bit? Yes.

Kevin:

That's the phrase. Oh,

Angie:

oh, you're right. I didn't. Think of that. I should probably relax.

Kevin:

Why don't you just relax, just have somebody say that. Maybe even walk around with an index card to give to people so that they can tell you that statement because nothing calms you down. Quite like having somebody tell you just relax. Yeah, that's what I got.

Angie:

Is that's it. You just wanted to add that in there. Yeah.

Kevin:

I really just wanted to add that in

Angie:

of what not to do. Yeah.

Kevin:

You

Angie:

know? Do you have an adage of What to do instead here.

Kevin:

here's the thing. No one, like outside sources are really bad places to go to try and get you to relax like you can feel when you're over overstimulated and overstressed. And my best way is pulling out of a situation. Like I literally, I have to leave the situation. I know I can feel it coming, that I'm way overstressed and I have to pull away and go to a quiet place. And I know I can take some deep breaths and bring myself back to a more normal place. But having anybody suggest that you need to just calm down is by far the worst.

Angie:

What if Taylor Swift sings it to you?

Kevin:

No, I don't. You

Angie:

need to calm down?

Kevin:

No, please, no.

Angie:

Oh, come on. No, that will definitely help. Right?

Kevin:

No,

Angie:

you're being too loud. Okay. so those are really the top five. And then the overarching principle behind all of this that we said at the beginning that I'm gonna reiterate now, are these faulty beliefs, like part of the reason that injuries occur is are these beliefs that pain is normal? Or I just need to push through because if you're continuously just ignoring warning signs or you think that injury means that you're doing it right, or that's just me getting stronger, like that pain is a sign that my body's getting stronger. That what is that? You like that voice? What was that? I don't know. It was a good one though. I was like, sweat is your fat crying. that's another, that's a shirt that I've seen. Was that like. The sound

Kevin:

of your achy muscle. Was that like a hamstring sound? I don't know,

Angie:

but it was like a guy from like the old West, I think. Like old cowboy.

Kevin:

So Angie's,

Angie:

cowboys, no pain. Sure. Yes. Okay. I, and I stopped watching Yellowstone a while ago, so I can't even explain that. But anyway, hopefully you understand now. Okay. There's a lot of reasons that you are experiencing pain and injury, and you don't have to. There's a lot of things that you can do. There's a lot of control that you have, and if you want guidance, I'm gonna say this again later in the episode, but if you want guidance and if you want a plan, and if you want people to help you, come join the team. I love helping people start to rewrite their running story and to understand that they can improve no matter their age and no matter what their experience has been. Up until this point, as long as you start doing things the right way. And I love seeing the joy and the satisfaction in people that start to get results. And it's just the best thing ever. So real life runners.com/team. So come join us. Alright. Here are some ways how. To prevent injury and start to feel good again. Okay, and again, this is me talking to you as a physical therapist for the past 18 years as a running coach for the past 10. These things that we're gonna be talking about now, these are non-negotiables. All right. These are the cornerstones. They are not the sexy things that everybody loves to put on Instagram, but these are the things that are actually gonna help you run strong and prevent injury. Okay. No, that

Kevin:

first one could go on Instagram.

Angie:

they all could technically, but the

Kevin:

second one's not cool for Instagram, but the first one, definitely video. Okay, so

Angie:

the first one is, number one is strength training. Okay. You have to strength training. Strength training is non-negotiable as a runner, especially as a runner over 40, especially focusing on. Single leg strength and power because this helps to make your joints stronger and help to improve your running mechanics. We have to be training all of our muscles. We have to be doing compound movements like squats, dead lifts, those kinds of things. Those are foundational movements that every runner should be doing. And then as runners, it's also very important for us to be doing single leg movements because running is a single leg sport. You are jumping over and over from one leg to another. that's what running is. it's jumping from one leg to another, so you have to be able. To stabilize yourself and to create power while standing on one leg. So single leg exercises are absolutely crucial for us as runners. You wanna tell'em number two?

Kevin:

Number two, progressive personalized running plans, not your basic generic mileage based plan. Ai. Can churn out quality plans, but they can't actually make something that works very well for you. It's just not there. That's, I think, one of the biggest holdbacks of AI plans right now. Yeah. But they

Angie:

say that they can, but they're actually not, and this is try to, ask AI. some question about yourself, like they get pretty close. they can get pretty close, but they don't know the full picture.

Kevin:

That's the problem is they get frighteningly close. So it seems like the plan actually is really well done to you. This is the benefit of having coaches is even if the plan is not perfectly done right towards you, you can then check in with coaches and be like, Hey. It seems like something might be off and you can actually get adjustments. Yeah, that's, that's your ultimate win on that guy is being able to have a coach that you can check in with, but a personalized running plan that actually fits where you are, not where you have been, not where you'd like to go. It gets you towards where you'd like to go, but it's rooted in where you currently are. It knows your strength, it knows your weaknesses, and it knows what it needs to build on. That's the plan that you need.

Angie:

Yeah, absolutely. Number three is to prioritize recovery. As a runner over 40, you have to be taking rest days. You should not be training every single weeks. Rest days are really important because recovery is part of your training. Recovery is when your body actually gets stronger. You also, another really great thing to add into your training are. What are called deloading weeks. So you ramp up, you increase your load, and then you pull it back. You decrease your load for a week. That helps your body to adapt. It helps your body to catch up, give your body a little bit more time to adapt, and that is going to actually help you. In the long run, people are like, oh, I don't wanna pull back. I don't wanna lose my progress. I don't wanna lose my motivation. It's actually really good for your body. It's good for your you, physically, emotionally, psychologically, deload weeks are fantastic. And then the third thing that will help you with recovery are is cross training. Okay? As a runner over 40. You definitely do not need to be running every day. If you are someone that likes to move your body every day, I'm one of those people. I like to move every day, start doing other things. Okay. You can do walking, you can do biking, you can do swimming and yoga. There's lots of other options as long as they feel. Easy. Okay. This is the goal is not to replace a run with a bootcamp style hit workout. Okay? That's not what we're going for. When I say cross training, the idea is to still give your body the recovery that it needs, but maybe it can be something outside of running,

Kevin:

but you could also, it. Doesn't exactly fall into your category of recovery here, but you could u replace one of your harder running days with a hard cross training day. And as we get a little bit older, that's

Angie:

Yeah. As, as long as it's hard for hard

Kevin:

it's appropriate replacing, it's not replacing easy with hard cross training just because it's less impact on the knees. that's not the goal here. All right, so next one, fuel. Like an athlete, embrace all of your macros, all of them, especially your carbs. Prioritize your protein, especially during a post run. You need to make sure that you are putting the fuel into you after a run. There was a study that came out that suggests that endurance athletes need even more protein than, heavy lifting athletes or like football pla I forget what the sport was. They were comparing it to, but endurance runners. But it said that they needed it more on recovery days. Even more on recovery days. So don't ignore carbs. They are the fuel for your fire, but don't ignore proteins or your body can't actually build back and get stronger. You wanna, they're all important.

Angie:

All right. I'm gonna call you out now. Oh God. Tell everybody what happened to you the other day.

Kevin:

Monday.

Angie:

yes. Your long run was Sunday. Yeah. You did 16 miles. I did. And then how'd you feel on Monday?

Kevin:

I was worthless on Monday because I didn't eat at anywhere near enough on Sunday. I think I missed lunch essentially. You

Angie:

did? Because we had a, our daughter had a dance competition.

Kevin:

She did awesome.

Angie:

She did awesome. Absolutely. Yeah. But. How did you take care of yourself?

Kevin:

I took care of, she did awesome. Let's go with She did great and I really paid for my complete lack of taking care of myself on Monday. I was worthless. And you were annoyed. You didn't show that you were annoyed. You did an awesome job of I did too. Hiding your, yeah, but I

Angie:

did too.

Kevin:

You hid how annoyed you were.

Angie:

Most of the day, yes, you did it, it came out at the end of the day,

Kevin:

yes. But for most of the day, you hid just how annoyed with me you were. And I appreciated that because I clearly was an idiot and did not take care of myself.

Angie:

So you didn't fuel appropriately on. Your day of your long run. Yeah. So you were essentially hungover, and he didn't drink, like there was no alcohol involved, but you essentially acted like you were hungover on Monday.

Kevin:

I really, I, that's what I felt like. Yeah. All day long. I just had this like low level headache that kind of moved to nausea and just exhausted all day long. I was worthless all Monday. I really was, and we needed to get stuff done.

Angie:

so it, but that's the lesson, right? you've been eating a good amount today Yes. To try to, and you tried to eat yesterday, but that was tough with the nausea. But this is, this stuff is important guys, and this is the other thing that I want you to hear is that, yes, we're telling you that this is a, but sometimes we don't always I would say we follow our own advice most of the time, but like sometimes quote unquote, life gets in the way. Like Kevin. We had a dance competition and he was prioritizing our daughter. I don't know why he wasn't eating along in the process because I did fine with eating. But you did

Kevin:

just fine. apparently I couldn't eat.

Angie:

I don't know what, I don't know what to say there, these things are important and if you're going to be an endurance athlete, which as a runner, you are an endurance athlete, you have to fuel like one, you have to. Give your body what it needs or you're gonna get hurt, you're gonna things are gonna happen. This is one of the big reasons why injuries occur, because especially, women when they get into this phase of life. And they start gaining weight or they, the fat distribution starts to change because of the hormone shifts that we're going through. They start restricting calories. They go back to that old diet mindset, and then they end up injured because they're still trying to run. And a lot of women try to ramp up their training because they're trying to lose weight. So they're trying, it's this rest, another recipe for disaster. They're trying to ramp up their training, but they're cutting their calories and restricting their food on top of it. Then all of a sudden there's all these pains and injuries that pop up. Yes. No bueno.

Kevin:

No, no bueno at all. And finally, I think finally

Angie:

the biggest thing that you need to do, and this is really one of the big overarching principles of this episode, is to tune into your body and not just your watch. You have to forget about. The paces and all the things that you're, these metrics that we as runners love and I know that you're gonna have a hard time with that, especially, this is a conversation that we even had today on our coaching call with multiple, of our current clients. This is not an easy thing. And I'm not telling you this saying, oh yeah, you should. This is easy. Just let it go. Tune into your body, ignore your watch. Like I understand how challenging that can be because there's a lot of ego involved, and I don't say that in a bad way, that it's just the truth. Like we all have. the, our own beliefs about what we can do or what we think we should be able to do, the way that our body should feel and when it doesn't match up with reality, a lot of times we try to fight it. And so what I am inviting you to do is to. Realize where you are right now. Accept it with love. Learn how to tune into your body, not just pay attention to your watch. If pain does show up, don't ignore it. Ask yourself these questions. Okay, what areas am I maybe not giving enough attention to here? And then adjust, adjust your plan. If you're, if you've been ramping up, pull back on your mileage. Take an extra rest day, seek some support. Take it seriously. your body is amazing. Your body is. Always giving you messages. All you have to do is really start to listen. So if you can start to reframe running as a lifelong practice, not just this temporary challenge, this is going to become much easier. You're gonna start to see, okay, wait, if I take one rest day. In the scheme, in the large scheme of things, that's gonna be really good for me here. It's not going to set me back.

Kevin:

No, a hundred percent. A rest day is much better than three rest weeks that are forced upon you. Yeah. Run one rest day that you are choosing to take is a much better option. Being sidelined does not mean that you're not doing aging correctly. It means that you need to actually adjust your training to your. Current training ability, what that strengths and those weaknesses and that recoverability timeline is, I've had to completely shift my whole training week for the last couple of years because I need more rest, more recovery days between my hard runs. It's just a complete overhaul. It's just that you need to evolve your training system as you, as a human continue to grow and adapt.

Angie:

Absolutely. You can still grow, you can still progress, you can still challenge yourself without your body breaking down without injury. So what if instead of pain, instead of injury being a normal part of running or a normal part of aging, what if feeling strong, feeling energized and feeling pain free was your normal? Is that even a possibility? Like when I say that, what comes up for you? Because that's what I want to be normal, because p pain is not a badge of honor. It's feedback from your body. You can feel good in your forties, your fifties, your sixties, your seventies, your eighties, right? Like your body is incredible. So let's start treating it that way. Let's start honoring it that way for the incredible thing that it is. So that's what we've got for you guys today. If you enjoyed this episode, I would love for you to share it with a friend, especially if you have that friend that needs to hear this message. Share it on social media. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. We read every single podcast or every single review, and those reviews really help us to reach new listeners. So as always, guys, thanks so much for joining us. Oh, and of course, if you want support, come join the team, real life runners team. We are here for you. We've got group coaching and group support with. Personalized plans. Okay? It's a hybrid program where you get the best of both worlds. You get a personalized plan to meet you where you are, that gives you all of your runs, all of your strength training, and then you get this amazing support of coaches and a group of other runners that are there to support you on your journey. So check that out today@realliferunners.com. Forward slash team, and thanks for joining us today. This has been The Real Life Runners podcast, episode number 415. Now, get out there and run your life.