Real Life Runners with Angie and Kevin Brown

413: Running and Broken Fences: Stop Patching What Needs Replacing

• Angie Brown

Share episode

In this episode of The Real Life Runners Podcast, we’re diving into a real-life backyard issue—our deteriorating fence—and what it taught us about boundaries, both literal and personal. We use this everyday challenge as a powerful metaphor for the invisible structures that support our lives, our training, and our overall well-being.

How often do we let little things slide—like a creaky fence or a nagging ache—telling ourselves we’ll deal with it later? But that “later” rarely comes without consequences. In this episode, we explore the hidden costs of procrastination, the signals our bodies send when we’re under-recovering, and how ignoring those signs can chip away at our physical and mental strength.

We talk about what it really means to set healthy boundaries—both in our training and our personal lives—and how honoring those boundaries can lead to stronger results and greater resilience. From understanding your training load and recovery needs to navigating body changes and emotional stressors, we’re bringing it all together.

We also emphasize the value of community and support, because just like a fence, we weren’t meant to hold everything up on our own. Whether it’s a running coach, a trusted friend, or a team that truly gets you, support makes all the difference in staying strong, grounded, and moving forward.

So, if you’ve been ignoring a few creaky boards—metaphorically or literally—this episode will help you recognize what needs attention and give you the tools to start rebuilding with strength, intention, and support.


02:09 – A Fence Story with Bigger Meaning
05:22 – The Real Costs of Waiting Too Long
06:56 – What Overtraining and Under-Recovery Really Look Like
22:25 – Why Boundaries Matter
23:35 – Creating Smarter Training Limits
24:16 – Balancing Effort with Recovery
25:10 – Setting Boundaries in Life and Relationships
26:19 – Respecting How Your Body Changes Over Time
28:05 – Tuning Into Your Body’s Signals
38:40 – Why You Don’t Have to Do This Alone

Join the Real Life Runners Team today! 

https://www.realliferunners.com/team

Join the Team! --> https://www.realliferunners.com/team

Thanks for Listening!!

Be sure to hit FOLLOW on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one!



Come find us on Instagram and say hi!





Don't forget: The information on this website is not intended to treat or diagnose any medical condition or to provide medical advice. It is intended for general education in the areas of health and wellness. All information contained in this site is intended to be educational in nature. Nothing should be considered medical advice for your specific situation.

Angie:

So we've had this fence in our backyard that's been falling apart for years. Boards missing, leaning to the side, barely holding on. And every time we thought about fixing it, something got in the way. Money, time, other priorities. But lately it's very clear that we can't keep ignoring it any longer. Now is the time to fix it, and the truth is this. Episode is obviously not about offense, but it got us thinking about fences. And so today we are diving into what happens when those quote unquote fences in our lives and training start to fail, including our boundaries, our energy, and our body. We'll talk about the hidden cost of waiting, the danger of ignoring warning signs and the power of getting support from someone who's done it. Before, because whether it's building a fence or rebuilding your body, you don't have to do it alone. So stay tuned. What's up runners? Welcome back to the show today. We are excited. It is summer.

Kevin:

It's a DIY episode here.

Angie:

It is a di well, did we talk about summer last week? I think so, right? Yeah, we did. Yeah, we talked about how. You're not teaching summer school this year? Yes. Yeah. And do we also talk about how I've decided to load projects and house projects on

Kevin:

like a fence? Like

Angie:

a fence? So that's, this week's project is we are replacing the fence in our backyard. And one of the things that we really like to do with the podcast is relate. Real life to running and figure out how the things that are going on in our lives or the lives of our clients and the things that people are dealing with have to do with our running and our health and our fitness and our strength and all the things.'cause we love to tie things all together because that makes it more fun.

Kevin:

because everything is connected like running does connect to so many other aspects of our life. Like we used to do this back in The early episodes Yeah. Is we'd do a whole thing and then we'd be like, and this is how it connects to your real life. I

Angie:

know. Yeah. if you decided that you just found the podcast and you wanna go back to our initial episodes, like the first at least 10 episodes were that Yeah. So yeah, that, but I would outline the episode and we're like, and this ties to real life here, just so we can tie it up with a bow for you.

Kevin:

Yep. Those are good

Angie:

ones. Who wants to hear about the fence? The fence story?

Kevin:

Oh, the fence. the fence has been an issue for Oh, so very long

Angie:

years for sure.

Kevin:

certainly years, but it got worse after, I forget what storm hit us. Yeah. And the fence basically touched our backyard ground level and then touched our neighbor's backyard ground level. So literally did like a 180,

Angie:

which I actually think we should look into.'cause I was talking to a friend today and she was saying that we might be able to claim like. homeowner's insurance as like maybe part of the fence reimbursement.

Kevin:

I'm not sure. I can still name that storm, so we might need to find some details. Yeah, I

Angie:

don't know, but that might be something to look into. I meant to tell you that. Excellent. I just remembered so, oh, it's exciting. I know. So the fence has just been this thing like it's ugly. It's not. Pretty to look at. It's beautiful. It is. It is a boundary between us and our neighbor.

Kevin:

Not necessarily like a solid boundary, but certainly a boundary. Yeah.

Angie:

And so it's become more problematic because those boards keep getting loose and so sometimes our dog will end up. Through the fence and into our neighbor's backyard. And he didn't have a fence for a while on the other side of his yard because he was doing a home renovation. And so she would just end up in the street and I would have neighbors calling me saying, I think your dog is out front. Which is really scary'cause thank God she didn't run away or get hit, get hurt or anything like that. We got her back every time, thank goodness. But that was scary. And so then our, the fence kind of start, so that kind of became an issue. And then our. The neighbor that we share the back of our yard with, he replaced his fence. And then when that happened, it left this gaping hole in the corner. So then we had to rig up this whole contraption so that we could still let our dog out of the, out into the yard without her getting through that hole. Huge hole in the fence and getting away. So that's been up for over I wanna say, two years now, which is a little too long for

Kevin:

that to happen, but it's hard to see because it's hiding in the corner behind the bushes. True. And that's the thing is it's. That part is not blatantly obvious.

Angie:

Maybe I should put up a picture of this on our Facebook story so that people can see what we're talking about. Possibly, yeah. But

Kevin:

if you just look out the window, you can't exactly tell that we have this no, you can't see it. Gaping thing in the hole. In the corner. You can't, yeah. What you can tell is that we have three different types of fences across our backyard that

Angie:

also that

Kevin:

you definitely can tell.

Angie:

Yes. And

Kevin:

so nothing matches in the backyard. And so by

Angie:

three different types of fences, he means we've got the pretty white PVC fence along the back, which is what the neighbor replaced. On the left side of our yard, we have a green chain link fence that is like the shorter Yep. Version. it's probably six feet like it or five feet. Couldn't tell feet, but it's like a little bit shorter. and then on the right. Side of our yard, we have the falling apart wooden fence.

Kevin:

Yeah. So it's immaculate. Yeah. Is really what our backyard is and we're gonna Gorgeous. Yeah. So we're gonna work on that, but I wanted to point out that part in the corner, because that's probably our biggest issue. And yet we can't even see it. So that part keeps getting ignored. True. The fact that every once in a while we get a board that falls down on the right side and I just find another piece of wood and nail it or screw it back together. it's a short term fix. Yeah. But it's been short term fixes for the last few years. And I think that's one of the lessons that we're covering today of this is not just a podcast about putting up a new fence. Because that's not what we're experts in.

Angie:

No, we are definitely not, and thank God we have a friend who is an expert in this that is going to be helping us with this process. and it's true, and I think that this is a really important metaphor for us to look at because how many times are you, or where in your life are you? Ignoring things because you can't really see it. Like we're ignoring that back corner because it's behind the bushes and we can't really see it. And so far our dog has been okay. there's been a couple times she's gotten out, not from that corner though, from like the side fence and it's okay, we really need to get this fixed. But like Kevin said, he'll we'll just fix that hole or patch up that little spot. But ultimately. It needs to be fixed because both the functionality of it is fading and deteriorating as well as the beauty of it. Like it's definitely a site for sore eyes. Is that. That is an appropriate saying. Yes, you've nailed it. That is an appropriate saying, right? So we definitely, the, our backyard is going to look so much better when we replace these two fences. Like it's going to be such a huge difference. I should probably take a before and act after picture. Will you remember or try to remind me to do that? Because I always forget the before picture. I always end up with an after picture, great

Kevin:

after

Angie:

picture, but forget the before.

Kevin:

Sometimes we end up with a 30% done. Picture that's, that often is what happens. Yeah. It's not a Before uhhuh, it's a, we just started the repair and we're 30% in picture. Right. 30

Angie:

to 50% in, I remember. Oh shoot. I forgot to take a before picture and then an after. Yeah, that's true. today we kind of wanna look at where is this happening in your life? In your running, in your health, like what, where are those areas that the fence is deteriorating that you just ignore because they're not right out in front of your face. They're not that quote unquote important or pressing, or you're getting by just by putting little patches on it. So this can happen in so many areas. Until, and oftentimes this is one of the reasons that so many runners get injured is that your body starts to give you signs and things kind of start showing up. And most people just. Ignore them. The, the little signs, the little things that kind of pop up. They ignore them until they can't anymore, until those problems become too big and you end up sidelined and not able to run because now you're in a full blown injury.

Kevin:

But the signs are always there. Yeah. As long as you're willing to actually pay attention. And one of the signs, I'm sure I'm not the only one that falls to this one, and I've noticed that this is a really important indicator to me that I might be pushing too hard not getting enough sleep. If I ever go to the front office at my school and get a second cup of coffee from the coffee maker, that's been like slow roasting that coffee for the last five hours. That's not delicious. But if I'm at the point where I need that second cup of coffee, it's probably time to take a rest day. The next day. Yeah. Like that. It's a sign, but. I can get by, I could continue to just have that second cup of coffee and that would continue to last me for a while. That's what we're doing with the fence of eh, we'll just screw those two boards back together.

Angie:

Yeah, and I think that oftentimes when we screw those boards back together, a lot of us rely on some of those old paradigms, those old training methods or things that we've looked at and used before as the repair patches like If you are someone that is over 40, especially if you're a woman and your hormones are changing now and you're noticing that maybe you're putting on, you're gaining weight during your training where you never had that problem before. One of the old patches and paradigms that a lot of people will use is to cut calories and to try to restrict food intake and a lot of, for most women that I work with, this tends to make the problem much worse and it actually. Causes other problems in addition to that. So not only do you now have the original problem of the weight gain, you now have more weight gain and now other problems like fatigue, like more aches and pains in your joints or in your muscles less, Less recovery or, needing more recovery in between your workouts. and because you're not fueling your body well. So in trying to put on these little patches, we oftentimes create a bigger problem for ourselves.

Kevin:

Yeah, this is the idea of I can always just, I can do enough to myself that I can manage to push through what, maybe I'll, you pointed out cutting calories, but maybe I do get a little extra afternoon snack and that will be enough that I can stick with my training plan. Maybe I get, the, the second cup of coffee, maybe I get a little strong. I fill up my cup of coffee'cause I do this one to Angie all the time. I fill up my own coffee. Coffee cup just a little extra full in the morning, and it's just enough that it doesn't seem like it's that big of an issue because it's enough that I can get by. But what I'm not really doing is taking care of the actual issue just because. the fence does still exist, does not mean that it's actually doing a good job of being a fence. Just because I've got my second cup of coffee doesn't mean that my training plan actually is on track. I'm checking boxes, but I might not actually be getting what I'm getting. I'm aiming for out of the workout itself.

Angie:

Yeah. And then your wife doesn't have her full coffee amount, and that's not gonna lead to good things either. That's that for everybody. No, I'm just. Kidding. But now we have a teenager that's decided she's drinking coffee also. So I do find myself on some days having to make a second pot of coffee because I'm like, I like to have two cups of coffee, which is not excessive. Yeah. But I enjoy that first cup, but then I like to have a second cup. It's just kind of part of my morning routine and I haven't been getting that second cup, so I've been having to make some more coffee.

Kevin:

Yeah. You just actually enjoy the second cup I need. The first cup. Yeah. Otherwise, I literally can't do math in my head.

Angie:

I don't need any of it. I just, I really enjoy coffee.

Kevin:

Yeah. I require it, yeah. To function. And honestly, like I'm so connected to the caffeine, like I respond so well to it that if I go a day without it, I have an. I have a headache by the afternoon. Yeah. And I'm just not focused all day long. Yeah. My students know it. Like during first period they're like, Mr. Brown, can you just finish your coffee so that you can actually form coherent thoughts and explain the math to us? Really? They've

Angie:

said that. Oh my gosh.

Kevin:

Not my freshman. My freshman are too. No, too nervously. But like the

Angie:

ones that know you, like

Kevin:

the ones that have had me for a few years, like Mr. Brent could just take a minute and finish the coffee and then we can continue our class here.

Angie:

That's wild. But I really like what you said there before too, of Just because it's still standing doesn't mean it's strong. And I think that's a really important lesson that we can take away from the fence. And I would invite you to look at your life, your training, and ask yourself what is a little bit wobbly in your body, in your training, in your life? That just because it's still standing, just because it's still there. Doesn't mean it's actually strong, doesn't mean it's actually doing its job. And I think that we all have those areas if we are being fully honest with ourselves. I think that, for me, I would say that one of those areas is my mobility and I think that I. Can definitely devote some more time and attention to my mobility work, especially in my ankles, because I have limited ankle mobility, but there's just some things that I do or like I prioritize instead of that, and I do my mobility work. It's not that I ignore it completely, but I know that it's probably not where it should be.

Kevin:

And ankle mobility is not like an a fun thing to do. It's just not, and that's the stuff that we tend to ignore. Yeah. I'd much

Angie:

rather just lift the heavy weight.

Kevin:

Yeah. And I would much rather go for a run Yeah. Than to hit up some extra strength training. And I definitely would. I would rather hit up strength training than do mobility work. I can do a small routine because it helps me feel fine, but doesn't help me actually perform at my best. Yeah, no, it helps me feel fine. And that's where I'm at with mobility. I could probably. Improve things from there. I could also definitely spend some more time in the gym.

Angie:

Yeah. again, just because it's still standing doesn't mean it's strong and there is always a cost of waiting on things and hopefully for you and for us right now, like the fence is still standing. It's not like anything quote unquote bad has happened yet, thank goodness. Like our dog has gotten out a couple times and that could have been really bad. Yep. and thank goodness it wasn't, but. I know, and Kevin knows, and this is the last time she got out I was like, that's it. We have to deal with this. I cannot be worried every time I let the dog out that she might get out of our yard. that's just too much anxiety, but. And I said, don't

Kevin:

worry, I'll put up another piece of wood on the fence.

Angie:

Yeah. And so it just, it's unnecessary stress really that's being added to our life. it's an eyesore, like it is. I don't like looking at our fence. Like even when we had, we had a birthday party here for me in February and I love hosting parties, but that was in the back of my mind is oh, we have an ugly fence. Like part of me is I don't really want people outside. And so Kevin really made our backyard super pretty by. Stringing up all a bunch of Christmas lights and so I was very happy with that. Yeah.

Kevin:

Twinkle lights distracted from the fence.

Angie:

Distracted. But that, how many times do we do that in our lives, right? Like yeah. Oh,

Kevin:

don't worry. Look over here, this sparkly thing, it's literally what we did.

Angie:

It's exactly what we did. Because I'm like, oh my God, that fence is so embarrassing, but now we're gonna be able to replace it.

Kevin:

but that, do I need to actually work the mobility or could I just change my shoes? maybe with this new style of shoe, I don't even need to work on this weakness in my body, right? This lack of mobility, this lack of strength. I'll just, pay a little extra for the shoes. Yeah. because it's a quick

Angie:

fix. that's what happened with my shoes, right? Like they changed my shoes. So I was, I've been running in the Brooks launch for a while, and they changed my heel drop from a 10 millimeter to an eight millimeter in the latest model. And it's not comfortable for me anymore. And a big part of that reason is because I have. Tight, Achilles and calfs, and that also leads to tightness in my plantar fascia, and I know that if I was better about doing mobility. That would be less of a problem. I'm not saying it would completely solve everything, but I think it would be less of a problem and I could probably do enough mobility to make those shoes work, but I don't want to like, I just don't want to.

Kevin:

Alright, so this is changing. We on a tangent here, but I have pretty solid ankle mobility. You have

Angie:

very good ankle mobility. I

Kevin:

know. So how come I like the giant heel drop.

Angie:

how big is yours?

Kevin:

It's like 12.

Angie:

Is it really? Yeah.

Kevin:

Mine is the last time I looked up the, an online review for it. they referred to it as astronomical. Astronomical. Yeah.'cause most people don't bother going to double digits. Like eight is pretty common right now. I know because a lot of people are pushing to get a lower heel drop. So you get a lot of eight to nines

Angie:

and I would like to, in theory, be in a lower heel drop shoe. I think that in general, that's a better move for me. I just also know how much work is going to take me to get my mobility to where it needs to be in order to make that. A pain-free running experience. And so right now, and I think I, it's one of those things that like, okay, I need to do this and I know that I need to do this, but right now I'm gonna buy a different shoe and I'm gonna return this pair of shoes because I'm not there yet, and I can continue to put it off just a little bit longer. Okay. So I ordered new shoes last night, by the way. Excellent.

Kevin:

I just keep putting off ordering new shoes. Yeah. I don't. I've been in the same style of shoe forever, and they do very little other than cosmetically to change the shoe from one year to the next. So I've been happy with this shoe for decades of running. Yeah. And it works for me. I like the idea of trying a different shoe. My shoe is remarkably heavy. Relative to the other shoes out there. Yeah. So I'd be interested and open to do it, but I offered. I know, but its heel drop is so much bigger than anything else on the market. And it'd

Angie:

probably be okay though because you don't have the limitations in your ankle and your calves like I do.

Kevin:

I know.

Angie:

I think you'd probably be fine.

Kevin:

the last time that I successfully ran a marathon I did it in my trainers because it prevented my calves from cramping up part way through instead of running it in like old school racing flats.

Angie:

yeah, you would just have to work your way into'em, like anybody. Oh, okay. it's just like a transition period.

Kevin:

thankfully I live with a physical therapist. Hey. Hey.

Angie:

So anywho, when we continue to put things off, not only do we have to pay. The price of the original thing that we needed to fix or address. But now there's like interest on top of that, right? so the longer you put off strength training or rest, the longer it's gonna take you to recover. Not really strength training or rest, but the longer you put off resting, it's going to take longer for you to recover if you just keep trying to pile on more and more training until you get to the point where your body might force rest on you with illness or injury. And that's what happens a lot of times.

Kevin:

Yeah. this also covers the whole idea of under fueling. there's, an interesting conversation to be had of, are people over training or are they simply under fueling what they're trying to put their body through

Angie:

and under recovering.

Kevin:

Yeah. But. Is it, are they over training or just not properly recovering?'cause the body can handle absurd loads. Yeah. As long as you, you bring it on at a somewhat gradual pace and then allow the recovery necessary

Angie:

and the fuel, like you said.

Kevin:

And then the fuel and the recovery time. They're all part of the same thing. there was a study that came out, I forget, it was a few years ago on a different podcast I was listening to, but that was the whole premise of the paper is there is no such thing as over training. It's just under recovery, whether it's. Allowing your muscles the time to recover or lacking the fuel to provide the recovery, you just need to have that thing built in there. Yeah. For us, I think the cost of the materials have gone up over the time since we put off putting the fence in there in the first place.

Angie:

Yeah. I think that there was a slight period of time where they went. Down just a little bit, but yes, now with all of the taxes and tariffs and all the other things that are going on, the cost of construction and material goods just continues to rise. Yes. so it is probably more expensive for us to do our fence now than, it's definitely more expensive to do it now than it would've been 10 years ago when we moved into the house. certainly, And and the fence was not in good shape back then either, right? it's not, like the fence was perfect at that point, but it was. It needed some work. our neighbor actually refers to it as the Franken fence because it's not in a straight line because the way that they installed the fence, they did it around a big tree that was there. So it's it was like this crooked. Messed up mesh of a fence

Kevin:

and as the fence grew, as the tree grew and kept snapping boards in the fence. Yeah. It then had to get replaced with new boards and so That thus the Franken fence is Yeah. Different boards are of different ages. That's true. That are holding the thing together.

Angie:

Because of the different, the trees in the bushes that kind of grew through them and continued to break the fence. Yeah.

Kevin:

cause the tree was alive.

Angie:

Alive. Thank you. So

Kevin:

I had to get the sound. Fantastic.

Angie:

Well done. Well done. It's always a good time to ask yourself, okay, what is this costing me or what is the hidden cost of not acting, of continuing to ignore this thing? are you, giving yourself an increased physical load? So is there an increased physical cost that you're putting on yourself? Is there. An increased emotional cost that's going on here with frustration or defeat or time, or even your identity as a runner. We talk a lot about identity on the podcast, and if you're not addressing some of these things and your times are getting slower as a result, or if your performance is going down, what is that costing you? Like your belief in yourself. that's something that is. Harder to build back up, and I don't think that we oftentimes look at that I as something that is like a hidden cost. And so I would invite you to look at it right now. is there something that's going on that if you were to address a couple of things or maybe just even one thing in your training, you would be able to gain back more strength, more energy, more confidence in yourself as a runner.

Kevin:

Yeah, that one thing might be eating, that. One thing might be some refueling, some strength, some mobility. There's a whole lot of small things that you could be addressing and trying to gain back some of that identity. But there's, you would talk about hidden costs. There's also just the big cost of, you might be trying to patch things and it's leading towards a larger injury that's gonna sideline you for a while. And then that might actually have some significant financial costs to it. Of a big injury. that's true. You need to then get some help for That's,

Angie:

yeah, that's true. Because what you could address right now through some strength and mobility exercises that then turns into an injury. Now you need an x-ray or an MRI or a visit to the orthopedic surgeon and now physical therapy visits, like all of that definitely adds up a lot. And very quickly.

Kevin:

Very quickly.

Angie:

And It's important for us to remember you're always paying a cost, like when we ignore certain things in our lives, you're paying a cost. It's just a matter of when and how you pay it, and if you have to pay that thing with interest on top of it as well. All right, so what's another reason that we're talking about fences? Like what is a fence? A fence represents a boundary A, it's something that separates, it protects, it, defines it, creates privacy. And as. People in midlife, we need stronger internal and external boundaries. And I think that this is something that becomes very hard for a lot of people, especially if you're someone who has been a people pleaser for the majority of your life. And then you get to midlife, especially women in perimenopause and menopause. And we don't have as much energy as we used to have. We don't have as much time as we used to have because not only are we now taking care of ourselves. We're now taking care of our kids and our spouses and our animals, and maybe aging parents and falling down fences in our house. there are always a million things going on. And so we don't have the same time or energy that we used to have. And when that happens, it's very important for us to set boundaries and understand what deserves our time and our energy and what does not deserve our time and our energy, or what can we. put off till later. What do we need? What needs our attention right now? it also is important for us to understand what kind of boundaries we need to hold in our training. what kind of load are we able to accumulate right now, like adapt to right now? what kind of training load is our body able to handle without? Ending us in injury.

Kevin:

Which is a very interesting thing because you talk about putting greater load on the body because we have so many more things that we're trying to handle as we get older, there may be things that you actually have time that you're like, actually, I can handle this. You have

Angie:

more time? Yes. Yeah.

Kevin:

Physically. We can handle all sorts of loads at all sorts of different ages.

Angie:

The body is amazing. The body

Kevin:

is phenomenal. Yeah. As long as we have appropriate balance between the load that we're asking it to handle and the recovery that we're able to give it. If we don't have time to recover, then we have to reduce the load. If we have plenty of time to recover and we're totally good with providing appropriate fuel, maybe that's an issue That's. Just been creeping in the background of you're like, no. I have no issues with food. I can totally provide food. And now you've made it to a point where suddenly maybe there are small issues with food that are coming up that you're having a greater difficulty refueling yourself because. You actually are, you have the time to put in a greater training, but you wanna make sure that you're refueling it appropriately and suddenly thing thoughts about food that you didn't think existed have now popped themselves up. You've gotta make sure that you are able to balance the appropriate intensity and volume of training with the appropriate recovery that you have available to you.

Angie:

and that requires holding boundaries, understanding the boundaries that you need to have around yourself, and your energy and your time, and your training, and your sleep and your recovery and all the things. And then actually being able to hold those boundaries. So for example. Knowing that you have a long run early on Saturday morning might mean that you have to say no to going out with your friends on Friday night. Especially if those are the friends that tend to stay out a little bit later. You might need to hold that boundary and. At first, your friends might not be happy about it. And again, this is going to go back to your own values and priority of what do you wanna place a higher value on right now? Do you wanna place a higher value on your friend's opinions of this not friendship, right? We're not talking about is friendship more important than running, but is your friend's opinion of this, of you not coming? Out this one time more important than your commitment to your runs? I can't answer that question. Only you can, right? another boundary that you might have to hold is setting limits around your runs. Knowing that, when I was in my twenties or in my thirties, I was able to go out and run 30, 40 miles a week, and I was able to hit this pace and I was able to train with this intensity. You might not be able to do that right now because your body is changing. Your body's different in your forties, your fifties, your sixties than it was when you were in your twenties and your thirties. And it's important for you to acknowledge that and to accept that and to hold that boundary and not let your ego get the best of you, right? Because all of us experience this, so I say you, I'm also pointing the finger at myself because. It all. It always cre. Not always, but like it does have a tendency to creep up sometimes and you're like, but I. I was, I can do this, right? it would totally be fine if I added an extra mile here, if I pushed a little bit harder here. Like I can totally do that. And then your body reminds you, you're not, what it used. It's not what it used to be. And that's not a bad thing, right? It's not like that you're worse than you were. It's just not the same

Kevin:

and your. Priorities might not be the same. You also might not need that same level of training that you used to need exactly when you were in your twenties. the way that the amount of volume, the intensity is not necessarily as required. You've if you've been putting in. Training for 10, 15, 20 years, you just need to maintain. Okay. You don't necessarily need to train the same way that you did when you were in your twenties. Like when I was late teens, early twenties, the amount of workouts, there was at least one workout a week that I. I, to, to use a nice little phrase, I went to the, I would often go to the well with a shovel and dig deeper. I sometimes visit the, sometimes I see it. That's where I'm at in my current training. This morning I was supposed to do a workout that was gonna have eight rounds of one minute hard and three minutes recovery. And I made it through six and it was a thousand degrees outside. And I was like, I could do it. It's only two more rounds of this. This is literally just two more minutes of running. Yeah. But I don't think I should.

Angie:

Yeah. What's the benefit of it? Is that's the question that we have to ask. It's funny'cause I almost had a similar experience on my run this morning too, and we almost did the same workout, which is funny. So I did one, two ones. So that is one minute hard. Two minute recovery, one minute, medium. Yeah. Repeated. And so I had it programmed into my watch for eight repetitions and my friend had seven repetitions, programmed into her watch. So there was a little bit of a miscommunication, in the screenshot that I sent or whatever it might have been, and. From the time that my run started, because like you said, when I went out at six 30 this morning, it was already hot and so humid. I was like, oh my gosh. I could just, you can feel the air. There was like this heaviness to the air this morning and I started running and my body was not feeling it. I was a little sore from Strength Day yesterday. Okay. And I even said when we get to, because usually I run about a mile, I run about 10 minutes and then I stop and do a little bit of stretching and open up my hips, open up my calves, and I said to my friend, usually it's one or the other, right? Usually it's your legs aren't feeling good, but your breathing's fine. Or your breathing's feeling really good, but your legs are tired. I was like, Nope. Today it's both like my whole body was just like not into this run today. It was not a good, it was just not a great day for running for me. And She said, what do you wanna do? Like when we got to the end of the rounds, she, we finished our seventh interval and she's we're done. And I was like, wait, you only have seven? and she's yeah, isn't that what we're doing? I was like, I have eight. And she's what do you wanna do? I'm like, I'm done. this is the sign that. I got through seven. I'm good with that. And like you said, what's the benefit of really doing that? Eighth, I'm not training for a race right now. I'm training for overall health and fitness. Pushing on that last repetition would really give me no benefit and even have the potential for negativity.

Kevin:

Even if you were training for a race, yeah, it's still possible that last rep was not gonna be as beneficial.

Angie:

It's possible, but there's always that mental benefit of finishing a workout. so there, there's always some benefit, especially if you're like, really? if running and running performance is the goal, but that's not my goal right now. My goal is strength building, right? So I have to take that into consideration. And because of my strength workout yesterday, my legs weren't fully recovered today. So that made my strength or my speed session even harder.

Kevin:

Yeah, I was starting to get nauseous. Because it was, a bajillion degrees. Yeah. it's, the dew point was killing it. When the dew point's like over 75, I, it's, I am struggling. Yeah. And it was 76 through the entire run and the clouds were there for the first half of it. And what is the dew point? It is the temperature at which humidity. Becomes dew. Yeah. At which the, it, the water vapor would turn into just straight liquid. okay. It would just start to create fog or rain. Or if you had a surface, it would just condense on the surface.

Angie:

And that changes.

Kevin:

That changes, yes.

Angie:

Oh, why isn't just like a set dew point.

Kevin:

It has to do with how, what that actual outside temperature is. Humidity. The humidity. Humidity, and like how much sun exposure you have. It's connected to the wet bulb temperature.

Angie:

Okay? And so that is also partly responsible for how much water I have on my skin at the end of the run, too.

Kevin:

Yes, because the higher the dew point is, the less useful sweating is. Okay? That's the issue, is you sweat like crazy, but it's so humid outside that it can't go anywhere. It's connected to dew point. In order to actually have that water, then be able to turn into vapor, you would need to act. That'cause that's the benefit of sweating is you bring the water to the surface and then it vaporizes and that cools your body. it doesn't vaporize here, it just drips off your elbow.

Angie:

So if lower dew points are better, yes. Got it.

Kevin:

Yeah. Once it hits 70 it's oppressive. And this morning it was 76.

Angie:

Yeah, it felt depressive, that's for sure. That's for sure. But yeah, so sometimes we do need to set those boundaries around our runs and know when to call it quits. and that doesn't mean you're a quitter, and that doesn't mean that you're quitting your workout. It means you're listening to your body and understanding. The risk to, benefit ratio,

Kevin:

risk reward ratio. Thank you. Risk

Angie:

reward. I know there was an R there. Benefit

Kevin:

works too. No benefit. Works out just fine. Yeah. But like when I was younger, there's a coaching euphemism out there that's leave one rep in reserve. Yeah. And as we get a little older, it's very often suggested that it should be leave to and reserve. Maybe three. And because you've done so much work that you don't have to hit everything and it's part of designing a workout because you pointed out It's, you don't want to quit early on all of the workouts. But

Angie:

yeah, you don't wanna make that a habit.

Kevin:

No. But it's possible that you had over-programmed True that. Eight was too much that you should have gone out there knowing that you were going for six or seven, that eight was gonna be too much. I went out hoping for eight, thinking that six was at least going to be able to happen and seeing how I felt. And I could have done eight, but I would've been spent and I knew what I had to do in terms of actually physically moving stuff for our fence. which was moving like 3000 pounds of concrete. Yeah. That was following the run. I didn't have the ability to get super dizzy and pass out in the middle of that process. Yeah. There were bags of concrete to be moved.

Angie:

Yeah, and I think that again, that's another point that you needed to set a boundary around your run because of you knew what was coming during the rest of your day in your real life, you know what was going to be asked of you that day. And for you, it was a very physically demanding task to go to Lowe's and get all the cement and load the cement and unload the cement. And obviously over the next couple of days you're gonna be digging holes and replacing the fence itself in God.

Kevin:

I'm so excited.

Angie:

All of that is very physically demanding work. But it's also important that if you have a very mentally challenging day ahead of you as well, that you don't go. All in your physical workout that morning, because then mentally you're gonna be fried for the rest of the day. Also, like if you know you had to teach a class or give a really important presentation at work, that is really important to take into consideration when you. during your workout that day, you need to set a boundary. I am not going to push to this point because I need to have stuff in reserve for the rest of my day. Yes.

Kevin:

I still don't have enough energy. That was the thing is I was not sure what I had going for the rest of the day, but then I gained a text message in the middle of my run and realized that I was gonna be moving concrete. Once I got back to the house That's then some boundaries were put into my day and that's fine because the priority for this week is literally putting the fence in. So I was like, if I can get some speed in, that'd be great because I'm probably not gonna be able to get a whole lot of speed on the back end of the week when I'm super tired. So I got in most of the workout and I realized I need to make sure that I'm still taking care of myself physically. I need to have time to get in good food before I continue lifting things for the rest of the day. It was making sure that I prioritized my overall health over being able to check a box and say, yes, I got in rep seven and eight.

Angie:

Yeah, and I agree and I think that, one more boundary that I wanna point out before we move on is this idea of eating enough. I know we've mentioned nutrition a couple of times so far throughout the podcast, but I think that this is also an important boundary for us to set as well, is knowing that fueling. Your body is really important. Like I need to eat enough fuel if I'm going to ask my body to perform, and that might mean that I set a boundary about what I'm watching on social media. That might mean I set a boundary and I don't talk to my friend about food because she's on a diet. You, we all have that one friend that's just always on a diet or always restricting and. If you don't want that to be an influence on you in a negative way, you set a boundary of oh, I can still talk to that friend. We're just not gonna talk about food or diet or whatever it might be. If there are certain people that you follow on social media, maybe you, with all good intentions, have followed different dieticians or things like that, trying to learn about food on social media, and that is wonderful education. I'm all for it until it makes you. Over obsess and hyper obsessive about the food that you're putting in your body because that becomes problematic also. And I know because that was me, like I had a problem. I was never diagnosed officially, but I think that I had a mild. Maybe a little bit more than mild case of Orthorexia where I was so concerned and like that everything that I ate had to be quote unquote healthy. It had to be clean. It had to be natural. I couldn't eat any preservatives or anything like that, that it was affecting. My ability to go over to my family's house for family dinner and, making sure that we're eating the right things and all of that. these are boundaries that you might have to set of okay, you know what, I can't. I'm gonna unfollow some of these dieticians because it's making me obsess too much over what I'm eating. I need to learn how to tune into my body signals and trust that I need to. Eat enough to fuel my body and to feel better in my skin.

Kevin:

Yeah, and there's some great athletes out there who are advocates of making sure that you eat enough and tell their own stories of recovery from eating disorders, and that is a constant like that. That is always part of my feed because it's so encouraging of making sure that you're fueling your body enough.

Angie:

So if it's doing you good, fantastic.

Kevin:

Yes.

Angie:

it just depends on how you're interpreting whatever information you're taking in. Exactly. Yeah. And

Kevin:

that's always what it is make sure that you are putting in the information that is going to make you treat yourself the best.

Angie:

And To bring it back to our fence, like when you have a shaky fence that's going to let things in and out without control when there's holes in the fence, or you can just move aboard out of the way and get through the fence, versus a solid fence, a solid boundary that is going to protect your energy, your goals, your growth, give you the privacy that you need to grow in whatever area of your life you need to grow. And then going back to that text message that you received on your run today with our amazing friend that is helping us with this project, because he's done multiple fences. He's put up his fence and other people's fence in our circles, and so he's helping us out. Another lesson that our fence reminded of us is that you can't do things without support sometimes, like your support system is absolutely critical and trying to build a fence alone. If we tried to do this by ourselves, this would not go well whatsoever. And so sometimes it means that you have to bring in a friend that knows a lot more than you about it. And luckily we have that friend. Sometimes it means you have to hire a professional, a fence person to come in and put up a fence, a contractor, and you're gonna have to pay that person to do the fence. But we all need a support system. At some point, we all need backup, but our friend, he's done this before, so he's taking the lead. He is the one that's completely guiding the process. He knows the tools and the permits and how to build the fence to code and make sure that we're digging the holes deep enough and using the right amount of concrete. Like I knew none of this stuff, and I'm sure like you didn't really know this stuff either, did you?

Kevin:

Oh, yeah. No, I have this all

Angie:

fence knowledge. Obviously. It's my

Kevin:

fence knowledge. Okay. He also, he not only knows the tool, the tools and how he has them all. He has all of the tools.

Angie:

Yeah. Like how much would we have had to spend in tools that he just has, Like we would

Kevin:

have to be like renting all these things and be like, is it worth it to rent that? Should we buy that particular tool? And then we buy the tool. We're trying to deal that. Fixing our garage is another summer fun project that we're gonna do. I'm sure we may have a Garage podcast coming at some point. Oh

Angie:

there's definitely gonna be a garage podcast.'cause that's gonna be our whole gym.

Kevin:

Perfect. Let's make sure we get a before and after of that. Yeah.

Angie:

I already forgot the before. Dang it. But I do have the current state of the garage.

Kevin:

that kind of looks like a before. Yeah. So that's close enough. I think

Angie:

it's good.

Kevin:

but. if we go out and we buy the new tool, where is that thing going to live?

Angie:

But not only that, this whole, DIY process is to save money. Yes. So if you have to buy a ton of tools in the process, is it even worth it? Or would you be better just paying a professional to come in and do it? And you wouldn't even have to put out any of the effort,

Kevin:

Because then you know that it's getting done correctly. Yeah. You bring in the expert if. we have a friend who's going to be able to really guide us through this, and I'm going to be able to go out there and do some manual labor, but under some very clear direction and guidance. Otherwise, I'm just randomly digging holes in her backyard. And that's not helping anybody? No. that's not useful. just how much concrete? I don't know. I don't know. Like a fistful of it. that's probably not the appropriate amount. That's probably

Angie:

not enough.

Kevin:

I don't know these answers, but under some guidance I can get it done. Without him, we would've gone a professional route. Yeah. So that it, the sides of our house are then put up correctly. Like we actually have fences that will then stand, it's hurricane time around here, so we need appropriately built. Fences. Yeah. For all the things that we've talked about, metaphorically, we actually need some strong fences around here. And if I didn't have the ability to do it or we didn't have somebody who could guide us to it, then we go the professional route and get somebody who can actually do it correctly.

Angie:

And this is exactly what a good coach does, right? The. The coach, like our friend, is basically coaching us and guiding us. Like we are the ones that are gonna be doing a lot of the work. He's obviously doing the work as well, and we're bringing in some other helpers, to help us out too. But this is what coaching can do for you as well, or a guide or a mentor or a running friend that has been doing this a lot longer than you. Someone that is able to, that has been there and is able to guide you through this. Can save time, save money, reduce overwhelm, prevent injury, helps you to do it right with the first time without all of the mistakes that they've possibly made along the way. the coach can help you adjust the plan when things get complicated like there has been so far, it's been pretty smooth sailing, but we've had our guide, our coach, like with us the whole time. Like he went down to the fencing supply place with Kevin. He came and picked him up. He's like the nicest guy ever. And. Drove him down to the fence supply place and placed the order with him. He took we, went with you to get the concrete from Lowe's this is. Such an amazing thing that he's doing for us and helping us out with, and that's what a really good coach can do for you too.

Kevin:

Yeah, there was stuff that we bought at Lowe's today. He goes, oh, we need to get a couple of two by fours. and two of those buckets over there. I just said, yes. Yeah. that's the thing. No, you question okay, I'll go grab those. And that's where the coach comes in, is they see things that you're like, that you didn't think that you were going to necessarily need. you talk about mobility. So many people, when they think of their running training plan. Are thinking about how many miles should I go? And they don't necessarily put in something like mobility, which is super, super important. Yeah. That was the idea of, oh, maybe I should grab those buckets because we're gonna need to be able to actually measure out some concrete.

Angie:

So just like we would not. Attempt to build a fence with no plan, no tools, and no clue. That's how so many runners are approaching their training, and you can tell me that it's different, but I really think this is a pretty darn good metaphor that we're using here because if you want to have something that is strong and stable, whether it's a fence. Or your body, which I would argue is way more important, right? Like you need some guidance along the way. You need some support along the way. And support doesn't mean weakness. It doesn't mean ignorance. Support seeking out the correct support for yourself and what you need. That's wisdom, right? knowing when to say. I'm really not sure what I'm doing here. That's a sign of maturity of growth, of wisdom, of strength to say I need some help guys. Like where can I get some help? And I think it's really important because so many people think that running is a solo sport running. I can just figure it out. It's just running. I just have to put some shoes on and go out and run. And. That can get you to a point, but if you are looking to improve and do it pain free and not get injured in the process, having a good support system is really important.

Kevin:

I can put some shoes on and head out the door. Gets you to a point if you get lucky on the first pair of shoes you buy also. Sure. Like you could wreck yourself real quick before you even start Yeah. with a training plan that you're not sure of. Yeah. So having some guidance along at all of the steps is super, super helpful.

Angie:

So yeah, yes, we mentioned a coach, but it's also the same thing like with the training plan, like having a training plan that is right for you. That includes all the things that you need to include, the runs, the intensity of the runs, the distance of the runs, the strength training, and the mobility that you can add. the recovery days. Like all of those things are really important for you to build the strongest fence or body that you want to have. In summary to wrap it all up. So here's how it relates to real life, Kevin.

Kevin:

Nailed it.

Angie:

Yeah. So when you look at your training, listening to us today, hopefully you've already started to spark some of these areas and ideas within yourself, but. Ask yourself, and maybe even take some time to journal on this a little bit. Where in your life are you putting something off that might be quietly falling apart? And maybe that is related to your training and your body. Maybe it's a relationship. Maybe it's another area of your life. Because again, all of this is tied together. Whatever's happening in your outside world, whether it's, maybe it's a friendship, maybe it's a relationship with a family member that. There's a certain level of stress that is going on with whatever that area is that is definitely affecting your running. Like I'm not even maybe affecting your running. It's definitely affecting how you show up and what you're able to do in your running as well.

Kevin:

Yeah, that really. Now you are right back into like our first 20 episodes or so of everything that we talked about. That was a lovely metaphor for running, is also a metaphor for all of the other areas in your life, whether like whatever relationships you have with others, are there parts of those relationships that are a slightly falling over fence, like the, it's all tied together. Where in your training, where in your life is it possible that you're overdue for a little bit of repair?

Angie:

And what would it feel like to finally rebuild that with the right support? And I think that there's a couple two ways that we can really look at this, because there are some things that it's going to be important for us to rebuild and strengthen, and then there's some. Things that you might just need to let go of and you might just need to take down like the old fence. We're not rebuilding the old fence. We are removing the falling apart fence in our life, in our backyard, and we're replacing it with a new one. And so maybe that's something that you need to look at too, like maybe there is a relationship in your life that. Has fallen apart and you don't want to put in the time the energy to rebuild it and you just have to let that relationship go and then look to, okay, that was a friend. What other friendships can I build up stronger? what people in my life are important for me? To invest in right now because, and I think this is a really hard thing, especially in midlife when we're looking at friendships and things like that, because adult friendships can be challenging and it can be hard to find good adult friendships. And I think that it's really hard when we have to let go of certain people because they've grown in different directions. like this is a conversation that I've had with our teenager, but it's also a conversation that I've had like with. My good friends, of like friendships that have drifted apart throughout the years. but that's getting into a whole new realm.

Kevin:

Yeah, no, we're trying to wrap things up and suddenly you're discussing adult friendships.

Angie:

I know. And this is how it relates to real life.

Kevin:

don't look at me for the discussion on adult friendships. I am the very introverted person, not forming new adult friendships, boundaries. I'm good with the boundaries.

Angie:

I've got a wife

Kevin:

and good. And

Angie:

kids done. Yeah. so anywho. Think about it, think about it in your life. maybe make a list of those areas that might need a little bit of attention. Maybe make a list of potential boundaries that you might want to look at, to strengthen, to set for yourself, and then. Also, what are ways that you can ask for help or guidance or support in your running or in your life? Maybe that's from your spouse, from your friends. Maybe it's seeking out coaching and a community of runners that understand you. If that's the say, if that's you, I would love to invite you to, to join our real life runners team. if you're ready to stop patching those same issues over and over again, and finally build a stronger body, build up that strength and that running. That's what we're here for. here inside the Real Life Runners team, you get a hybrid approach. We really pride ourselves on the program that we've built here and the amazing runners that we get to help around the world because you get a personalized plan that's right for you. And then you also get the support of group coaching. You get a community, you get coaches that actually care about you. and you get all of that inside the real life runners team. So if that's you, if you're looking. To find a place that you can get the help and the support that you need, come check us out real life runners.com/team. We would love to be a part of your journey.

Kevin:

Yeah, if you're looking for help building a fence, that's not us. No. This was a metaphor.

Angie:

We will not be taking fence requests after this. I

Kevin:

just wanted to clarify. Alright,

Angie:

so thanks guys for joining us. As always, if you found this episode helpful, we would really appreciate it if you left us a review, shared it on social media or shared it with a friend that could also benefit, so that we can help more runners around the world to build strong bodies and to run their life. So this has been The Real Life Runners podcast, episode number 413. Now, get out there and run your life.