408: When You Lose the Spark for Running (And How to Get It Back)

Have you noticed that running can sometimes start to feel like a chore? If that sounds familiar, this episode is for you. Today we're talking about why this happens—and more importantly, how to reignite that inner spark. We unpack the common culprits behind burnout, from overtraining and life overload to the hormonal changes that often surface for women in their 40s and beyond. If you've been feeling stuck, unmotivated, or simply not yourself on the run, you're not alone—and there is a path back to joy.

You'll hear real talk about reshaping your goals, giving yourself permission to evolve as a runner, and trying new things—like switching up your terrain, revisiting your favorite routes with fresh eyes, or simply letting go of old definitions of success. We share practical tips to support both your physical and emotional health, because running well means feeling well, too.

Whether you’re coming back from burnout or just need a nudge in the right direction, this episode will help you feel seen, supported, and ready to lace up with renewed intention.

02:06 Understanding the Loss of Spark in Running

03:45 The Reality of Motivation and Running

08:30 From 'Should' to 'Want': Shifting Your Running Mindset

18:46 Physical and Emotional Burnout in Running

22:26 Hormone Shifts and Running

24:13 Training Cycles and Seasons

26:33 Managing Stress and Burnout

37:20 Evolving Your Runner Identity

46:45 Reconnecting with Joy in Running

48:01 Join the Running Reignited Challenge

Ready to reignite that spark? Join the Running Reignited challenge today at https://www.realliferunners.com/challenge We start on May 12th!

Join the Team! --> https://www.realliferunners.com/team

Thanks for Listening!!

Be sure to hit FOLLOW on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player

Leave a review on Apple Podcasts. Your ratings and reviews really help and we read each one!

Come find us on Instagram and say hi!

Don't forget: The information on this website is not intended to treat or diagnose any medical condition or to provide medical advice. It is intended for general education in the areas of health and wellness. All information contained in this site is intended to be educational in nature. Nothing should be considered medical advice for your specific situation.

Transcript

Angie: 0:00

If running has started to feel more like a chore instead of a passion, you're not alone. Today we're talking about why that happens and exactly how you can reignite your spark for running. So stay tuned. What's up runners? Welcome to the podcast. Today we're gonna be talking about what it really means when your motivation fades. There's so many people out there that just think I need more motivation, and today we're gonna talk about why that's not the case and how you can reignite that spark of running and some of the most simple and powerful shifts that can help you fall back in love with running again. If you seem to have lost your spark, which actually. Lines me up perfectly to let you know that we are running our brand new five day challenge again. And yes, I'm gonna drop it right in here. Kevin's like shaking his head over here. He's like, where are you going with this Anang? The five day challenge is back that. Is what I'm, where I'm going and I'm super excited about it. May 12th through the 16th, we're bringing back the five day challenge and we are renaming it, running reignited because we are here in these five days. Going to help you reignite your spark, your joy for running to figure out where you are right now. What's gotten in your way If you don't have the results that you want or you just, maybe things are going pretty well for you and you just wanna get better, all of this is going to help you in the five day challenge to see where you are and move to where you wanna be. So I'm super excited about that. So registration is now live when this episode, is released. So you can head over to real life runners.com/challenge and sign up for our five day challenge, which starts on May 12th.

Kevin: 2:04

That sounds fantastic. I like where you went with that. right off the bat, let's, it's gonna be a great challenge. It's like you've been excited for this thing for weeks building to this challenge, so it's

Angie: 2:12

cause I've been building it.

Kevin: 2:13

Yes, I know. And but Right. So it's

Angie: 2:14

like very exciting when it gets to be actually released and experienced by people.

Kevin: 2:18

Yeah. where everybody else gets to see the same level of excitement that you are bringing into it.'cause you are sparking over here. But what we're talking about is spark. What happens when. You lose the spark. I got a little nervous. I'm not gonna lie. You're like, I wrote an episode about losing the spark and how it might be inevitable for some people, and it's a normalized thing. It's gonna be okay, and here's ways we can handle if that spark is lost. I'm like, it's what messages are you trying to send here? What?

Angie: 2:42

What's. Spark. Do you think I lost?

Kevin: 2:44

no. We're all just about the lo, the love and joy of running, so we're good. We're just, it's a motivation in running kind of thing. Don't

Angie: 2:49

worry. Love my spark is still a flame. Excellent. Is that a flame? Is what we're

Kevin: 2:54

going with.

Angie: 2:55

That's, that shows you guys that this is not a scripted podcast in any way.

Kevin: 3:00

You don't have a flame written in the outline

Angie: 3:02

here or my. Spark is a flame. That doesn't even make sense. Yeah, no, it's beautiful. Like sparks can't be a flame. Like the spark is what causes the flame.

Kevin: 3:09

Excellent,

Angie: 3:09

right? Yes. My sparks are still sparking for you. How's that? Your sparks are arcing. Sparking.

Kevin: 3:15

There you go. My

Angie: 3:15

sparks are sparking. Yeah.

Kevin: 3:18

Sorry. I was going with the car analogy where you start arking. Nevermind.

Angie: 3:21

What? What do you mean arcing? It's where the,

Kevin: 3:24

the terminals of the battery connect. You get the lightning shot across the nevermind. Oh,

Angie: 3:28

okay. It's a science. It's a science thing, things. You're so cute. Thank you. Adorable. I'm so glad you have dimples. Alright, so let's talk about, so go sign up for the five day challenge, five day running challenge.com, or of course, real life runners.com/challenge. We'll all get you to the place where you need to go so that you can sign up for the challenge. To help reignite your running for this next phase of your life. So if you are a runner over 40, this is specifically a woman over 40, this challenge is for you. Come join us. I'm super excited. Let's rock and roll and talk a little bit about losing the spark for running, not for. Love and marriage, but for running. But actually this can apply. Some of the stuff that we're talking about here can apply to other areas of your life as well. Because as you all know, that's one of the things that we love about running it, is that it is a metaphor for life and the lessons that we learn in running can. Often, very often apply to lots of different areas of your life. So if you're sitting there listening and thinking to yourself, no, I'm good. Like I'm still, I have my joy for running. I love running. Things are going really well. Fantastic. Maybe there's another area of your life that you're feeling is on the fade or you're just don't have the same joy or zest around. Maybe take what you're listening to in this episode. And apply it to that area as well and see if maybe you can gain a little bit of insight there.

Kevin: 4:51

Yeah. But you have a brilliant comment that you wrote out here is losing the spark doesn't mean that you're not a real runner. this happens to everybody, I think at some point in time. Yeah. I think if you run enough At some point you could fall into the category of losing the spark. yeah. Not every day. I love running. I do. I love running, but every, but

Angie: 5:09

you've gone through ups and downs too.

Kevin: 5:11

Definitely ups and downs and even. During a period of ups where I am feeling great, there are days that I wake up and I'm like, I am not really excited to get out and run. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that I don't lace up the shoes and go run. Sometimes it does. But sometimes you just gotta lace up the shoes and go.

Angie: 5:27

Yeah.

Kevin: 5:27

And it's just, it happens to be an off day and then it's the worst when you're, your mental off day Falls in line with your, your body's not cooperating correctly that day.

Angie: 5:34

Yeah. And I agree, and I think that's a really good point that we need to make because. We're not in, in this episode in general, we're not talking about losing the spark on like that one day, right? We all have those days, and of course, some of the things that we're talking about can apply if you just have one of those days where you're just not feeling it and you don't wanna go out and run and you just need to put your shoes on and go out and run anyway, because chances are you're gonna feel better afterwards. But more of what we're talking about is a. A theme, right? If you're noticing a theme and a pattern of run after run, after one run or week after week or even month after month, you're starting to lose that spark and lose that joy and running is just becoming a chore and something that you have to do or something that you should do. That's more of what we're talking about today, and what we want you to understand is yes, it doesn't mean anything about you as a runner. Because I think that I would say that this does happen to probably everybody. I know you, I don't like to generalize, but every runner, most runners,

Kevin: 6:39

all of them,

Angie: 6:40

99% of runners have probably experienced this at some point in time. And it also doesn't mean that you're lazy. It doesn't mean that you're broken. It doesn't mean that something is wrong with you. It just means that something deeper is going on that needs your attention. And it could be physical, it could be mental, and today we're gonna. Talk about all of those things because it's not about forcing yourself into loving running again, it's not about trying to find more motivation. It's more remembering why you started and then reconnecting to a new, even stronger version of yourself. Because sometimes those things shift, and we talked about this last week in our episode 4 0 7, where we dug into the identity shift that you need to take or that you need to. Undergo in. When you start to run after 40 and turn into more of a lifelong runner, maybe the reason that you started running isn't motivating you anymore. And I think that most runners can probably say that unless you are very new in your running journey. I think that a lot of runners will tell you that their desire and their drive for running has changed over the years. And so maybe that's where you are. Maybe you're just. Fading in your old desire and drive, and you're not really quite sure what that looks like right now. And so today we're gonna really talk about three big reasons that you lose the spark for running. We're gonna talk about why this happens, and then of course, how to respond, what you can do to get this spark back so that you can go back out there, feel motivated, feel joyful, feel. Good while you're running and really know why you're doing it other than just, oh, it's good for me, or it's good for my health, or, this is what I've always done. There's a lot of people that just fall into that trap of I gotta, I guess I should go out for a run today. Wouldn't you rather want to go out for a run and look forward to your runs? So let's jump into number one, which is running became a should instead of. A want. And I think that this happens a lot to us.

Kevin: 8:51

I think this has happened to me probably five or six times throughout my running journey. Okay. my journey's been, that's

Angie: 8:58

pretty good for what, 30 years?

Kevin: 9:00

Yes. Almost

Angie: 9:01

30

Kevin: 9:02

years. No, 30 years.

Angie: 9:03

Oh, wow.

Kevin: 9:03

Yeah. 30 years. You're,

Angie: 9:04

you're at that point uhhuh.

Kevin: 9:05

Yeah. No, when you said it, I quickly did the math in my head. I'm like, Nope. that's right. Oh,

Angie: 9:08

damn.

Kevin: 9:09

But. One of the first times was when I flipped from running on a team to running by myself. Yeah. Because running the existence of running just completely changed. And I stopped running for a few months and had to figure out, do I even want to do this anymore? That's why your whole idea of should versus want when it's practice. Yeah. And you go to practice because that's what you do. Because that's what you're supposed to do. Yep. There's practice Monday through Friday. you. It's not, it's beyond a should. Yeah. It's just an automatic, this is what I do. So it's so much of my identity. And then when I wasn't on the team anymore, it really completely went to, do I want to do this at all? And that was the first time that I was like, I'm not doing this unless I kind, I lose some of that should and throughout running years, sometimes it's going back to a feeling of should, and I think a lot of us do that If you pick various goals and you're following a strict schedule on that, you get into this feeling of, I have to do this thing today. I have to do this, I have to do that. And you lose some of the, but why do I actually want to do it? And if you occasionally get that feeling, that's fine. On a day-to-day basis, you pointed out this is something where day after day, week after week, are you feeling that? You're just dragging yourself out the door instead of actually enjoying actually wanting to go out and do the thing. That doesn't mean that you're like leaping out the door. That doesn't mean that it's gonna feel amazing every time you go out, but when I got up today, I wanted to go for a run. My legs were a little sore from yesterday, but I still wanted to go out and do the thing today.

Angie: 10:38

Yeah, I think it's interesting because for me it really. Went from a should to a want versus a want to a should. Like we're talking right now about people that wanted to run and it's becoming I should go out and run. Whereas for me, it was I should go out and run so that I can burn calories into well. Do I actually want to run? I had to make that shift early on in my running journey because running was never a desired thing for me. It was always something that I had to do, I was forced to do. I was punished, through my sports and was forced to go out and run. And then when I moved into college and started running on my own without someone blowing a whistle at me, then it was, I should do this so that I can lose weight or so that I can maintain my weight or. Whatever, fill in the blank reason I got, but it, there was never like, oh, I really want to go out and run today.

Kevin: 11:36

And have you made it to that point you like there are multiple days now that you're like, yes, I want to go out and run.

Angie: 11:41

So I think that I moved into that want to, when I decided that I was a runner, right? Because for a long time, and I've talked to about this many times on the podcast, that I never considered myself a runner. And so when I. Called decided to call myself a runner. That is, I think when I shifted over into, I want to start going out to run because this is good for me because I wanna get stronger because I wanna see if I could get faster because I had race goals, whatever these are other things are. And because I wanted to go out and run with my friends, right? running became a part of my social life as well. But I've also. Flipped. I've also noticed that I have had these periods of time, even after deciding to run and wanting to run, where I've started to fall back into that, I should go do this because I'm still a runner, or because I'm a running coach or because I have this podcast called Real Life Runners. Who the heck would I be if I. Decided I wasn't running anymore. Like it, it, there are still those periods of time that I have gone through, even over the last decade where I have gone from a want into a should and then back into a want. I.

Kevin: 12:48

It's a matter of how long you hang out and that should, there are some times that you could argue that all the things you just said help you maintain consistency. Yeah. They help you move beyond, like super motivated and they're just some facts of identity that help you maintain the consistency like you've declared, I'm a runner, I've got a running podcast. there are. Things that kind of say, even if you're not feeling it that day, that you're still gonna go out and do it. Yeah, and I don't know if that's a should or a wand, it's just what it is. It might be more neutral. Yeah. Than I should do this. I want to do this, it's just I'm going to do this.

Angie: 13:20

Yeah. And I think that COVID really gave a lot of people the opportunity to. Decide if they, A lot of people became runners during the pandemic and decided that they wanted to start doing something. They needed a new challenge, they wanted a way to stay healthy, and the gym was taken away, or other things were taken away and all of a sudden running was the thing that was there that they still had access to. And then there were a lot of people, I think me included that was, I was social running was a part of my social life and I did races and other things. And now it's oh, all of that got just got taken away from me. So now is this something that I wanna keep doing? And like the answer at that time was definitely a yes for me.

Kevin: 13:58

Yeah. Races being taken away, made running a very interesting thing. Because could you still be social? Like when it first started, do we need a socially distance run? It was a very interesting thing. Yeah. But a lot of people, you're right. Got into running because of the gym shut down and you could still get outside and go run. You get outside and go cycle. I think cycling took off also. But it was just things that you were allowed to do outside and they're so good for you. But then once gyms reopened, people now decided, is this still something that I want to do? Or is this like a habit that I feel more compelled to do? It gave people the opportunity to ask that question.

Angie: 14:30

Yeah, and I think that's a, an important question for all of us to ask ourselves on a relatively regular basis. maybe some people more regular than others, but if running is feeling more like an obligation or something that I have to do or that I should do right now, maybe we can start to look at it and see it more as an opportunity to explore new goals or new terrains or new challenges. And see other sides of running. I think that's what I've started to look at running. When I have gone through this, and I've gone through this relatively recently as well of running is just a part of my health routine. this is just what I do on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. I run on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday I lift and this is my routine and that's totally fine. If that's you, this is great. there's nothing wrong with this, but if you notice yourself. Not looking forward to your runs or dreading your runs or really oh, do I really have to go out and do this today? It can be an opportunity for you to just start to question it and decide, okay, do I wanna keep running? Or do I wanna try something else out? Or do I wanna try different types of runs out as well? And that can be different distances. If you are someone that's been doing marathons or half marathons longer distances, maybe you would have a lot more fun getting into shorter races like five Ks or 10 Ks if you've been running on the roads. What about trying out trails or other things like that? There's a lot of different ways that you can run, and I think that we get stuck when we think that running has to. Count for something. we have to get in 45 minutes or an hour, I have to run at least three miles for it to count. That's when we start to get into trouble because then running becomes this obligation. It becomes this thing that we have to do or this amount of running that we need to do. But what if it could just be fun and one of the ways that I instituted this for me was what if I just went. Out to run for 20 minutes or for two miles, like gasp, right? and I know that might sound pretentious to some people, but there was a point in time where in my mind if it was anything less than five miles, it didn't really count. And that is a very dangerous mindset to be in. and dangerous is obviously relative, but why in the world did I put that rule on myself?

Kevin: 16:50

Yeah, because five miles is probably a certain time on the clock also.

Angie: 16:54

I think that it was also because when I was training for half marathons, that was typically, that was the low run, that was my weekday run. that was just my quote unquote, normal weekday run was four five miles. So why in the world would I ever run anything less than that?

Kevin: 17:06

Yeah, that's funny. I haven't even thought about it until, just now as you said it, but when we head outta the neighborhood, if I turn right, I know it's gonna be a shorter run. If I turn left, it's gonna be a longer run. I. It doesn't have to be like

Angie: 17:18

you can turn around at any point in time. Like you can make it an out and back.

Kevin: 17:22

Yes, I could. I could. I could turn right and then actually go through that one intersection. Go longer that direction. Yeah. But. In my head, I just, I know usually it's shorter if I go to the right and longer if I go to the left. Yeah. But if I take that one step further, going to the right could then have negative judgment on it. Oh, I chose the short option today.

Angie: 17:38

Yeah.

Kevin: 17:39

Like it's, and it's just so close because I already have it in my head, labeled shorter, longer. So that shorter, longer can then go into better, worse. Yeah. Like it could very easily slide there and. Right now I am at neutral, and I think that's another point that I really want to hit on here, is it doesn't have to be you should, you have to do this thing or you really want to do this thing. It's super fun. You can have neutral. That's, yes, that's what you pointed out is Running is the thing that I do. With my general fitness routine, and I have it on these days of the week. Yeah. It's scheduled. It's not a, I have to do it. It's just what it is. It can be neutral. It's when things slide from neutral into an obligation that you start going the other direction. And that's when maybe try and add some different variety to it. We'll pick a different goal, pick a different distance, pick something else that's gonna change up the routine. That makes things a little bit more interesting and leaves the obligation.

Angie: 18:30

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that leads perfectly into reason number two, that a lot of people lose the spark, and that's physical or em emotional burnout, which is really over training, under recovering constant life stress or hormonal shifts. So a lot of you women that I've been talking to over the last few months, like women over 40, were going through perimenopause. If you're over 50, maybe you've already gone through menopause and you're in your post meau. Menopause era. These hormone shifts play a huge role in how our body responds to running and exercise and. It can leave us feeling really exhausted in all of the ways. Physically exhausted, mentally exhausted, and running can be just, again, one more thing that we have to do. One more obligation, one thing, one more thing that's draining our energy. And a lot of women, especially if you are still training in the way that you used to train in your twenties, in your thirties, you're going out and you feel like you have to run five miles every time, and it has to be at. Eight minute pace or nine minute pace, whatever arbitrary number you've chosen for yourself. Like when I go out, I run five miles in 45 minutes, like that's what I do. And all of a sudden that five mile run is now taking 46, 47, 48, gasp, 50 oh no minutes. It

Kevin: 19:50

starts with a different number. It's a completely different thing,

Angie: 19:52

right? But this is what happens. And then not only do you have the physical burnout that you are experiencing because you are now pushing your body too hard, you are now. Probably feeling a level of shame around it, a level of disappointment or confusion or frustration or annoyance. there's all these other emotions that can be bundled up in your body's response to exercise and all of a sudden it's not feeling as good and what does this mean? And now you might be questioning yourself as a runner, and that's going to lead to a whole snowball into that emotional side of burnout as well,

Kevin: 20:28

right? in your 45 feet. 45 minute, five mile, analogy there.

Angie: 20:33

Yeah.

Kevin: 20:33

You can either overtrain yourself and keep trying to make sure that you hit the 45 minutes. Or deal with the mental judgment of allowing it to actually still feel the way that it's supposed to feel. Yeah. If it's an easier run, if it's a moderate run. whatever it is, allow it to feel the same, but then the clock is different. Yeah. And you've got that mental, whatever hangup is dealing with. Or you're like, I, no, I'm, I don't wanna deal with that mental hangup, so I'm just gonna keep pushing harder and harder. these are bad choices.

Angie: 21:00

Yeah, because you, maybe you have done that and you're like, okay, you know what, I'm just gonna go out and run. And then you keep seeing that same number or that same pace on your watch, and it keeps making you feel worse and worse. And you're like, I don't like the way this feels, so I'm just gonna push myself harder. But then you're burning yourself out physically.

Kevin: 21:15

Do you want to. Feel it mentally, or do you wanna feel it physically? Because both of them are gonna pose a challenge.

Angie: 21:20

and they're both going to happen.

Kevin: 21:21

That's the other thing is they're both gonna happen.'cause even if you continue to trying to make sure that you hit your five miles and 45 minutes, that's going to start feeling harder and harder. Yep. And then you're gonna have the judgment on, this shouldn't feel this hard anymore. So that judgment's gonna be there anyway. So you might as well just run to your comfort.

Angie: 21:38

and the more you push yourself harder, the more you are putting your system into that chronic stress mode and over training mode so that your body isn't recovering and so your body, it's just going to keep getting harder and harder. You're putting yourself into. A non winnable game, essentially. Yes. Because by, oh, by continuing to push and trying to hit those numbers, you are forcing more stress onto your system. You're not recovering so your body's not adapting. And when you get into perimenopause and post menopause and you start experiencing these hormone shifts, those hormone shifts. Mean that your body cannot adapt to stress in the same way. It cannot adapt as easily, and so running does feel harder for a lot of people. It is time where we might have to slow ourselves down a little bit, and that doesn't mean that you are, you have to get slower when you're aging, and so please don't hear me wrong. It just means that every single run can't feel hard. Every single run can't be at the same pace. Like you're going to have to get better. At listening to your body and honoring your body and really reconnecting to what your new body needs in this next phase of life.

Kevin: 22:49

Yeah, and one of the things that we highlight here is making sure that you are prioritizing recovery. Because if you keep pushing yourself. Even when you're trying to get the recovery, you're like, I'm trying to get enough sleep. If your hormones are all out of whack, if you're over training and you're not getting enough food into your body, sleep is not gonna go very well for you. Yeah. if you're not getting the appropriate levels of sleep, it's hard to then push yourself, even if you're like, oh, I'm not pushing every single day. You might still be on the other side of not recovering from what it is that you're doing. Yeah. If you're not fueling appropriately, if you're not sleeping appropriately, if the stress levels are messing with you throughout the day, that your stress levels are generally high. Day in, day out, then the runs, even if you're trying to balance easy and harder runs, everything feels a little bit harder because the background stress is a little bit higher. Yeah. So that's not helping things, and then you try and take a nap to recover from it. I don't know when everybody's fitting in a nap, but you try to sleep to recover from this and maybe sleep is not coming as smoothly as it used to become.

Angie: 23:45

Yeah, and I think that a big part of this comes from that need to push and. It can be very helpful when we actually allow ourselves to have seasons, and this is one of the reasons that we love training cycles in the way that we coach our athletes is, You, it's not the best choice for you to be training for a race at all times of the year. Like it's much healthier. It's going to be much more enjoyable. It's going to lead to less plateau and less decline if you are changing up the point of your training cycle and not just training for a marathon every single cycle. Allowing for seasons of ebb and flow, allowing for seasons where you're focusing more on strength, where you're focusing more on speed, where you're focusing more on distance. And you are also, again, prioritizing that recovery. But when you change up the focus, that can get back to point number one that we made here of making it. Running different, but it's also going to help you avoid the physical and emotional burnout that can come when you notice that your body's not responding to running the same way that it used to.

Kevin: 24:50

Yeah. A variety of different reasons for running, not from one day to the next. Not constantly shifting, but every few months shift the overall focus and purpose of the general training plan. If you're like, oh, but I love to have races. Not that you have to have races, but that you just actually truly love and enjoy all of the races. Maybe mix up the race distances. Yeah, because that alone can Add some variety to the year.

Angie: 25:14

Or if you wa like just love five Ks, then great. But then maybe don't race all of them, maybe. Good point. Go out for one and you're like, okay, you know what? I'm gonna go all in on this one. I'm gonna see what I can do, and then go out for the next one and run it with your kids, or run it with your friend, or just go out and have fun. Wear a costume. there's different ways that you can experience. Even the same race distance. So there's different things that you can do so that you experience running differently versus just having to grind and push really hard and try to PR every time.

Kevin: 25:44

Put a costume on, London Marathon just happened. Yeah. The number of costumes at this thing. People whose commentary was like, I just got passed from by a banana, but hopefully I can stay ahead of that person Dressed as a minion. Yeah, because. Because the banana was going for a world record, so they're flying. Yeah. But maybe this person's just in a costume for the enjoyment of It's bonkers what's going on in that race.

Angie: 26:03

Yeah. But when we prioritize recovery and specifically nervous system regulation, this can really help us to avoid both physical and mental burnout. Because if you notice that you are in that season where you're feeling burnt out, you're feeling overwhelmed, you're just like I, it is a struggle for me to get out the door every single day. Ask yourself like, how is my nervous system feeling? And I know that seems like a weird question because most of you that aren't. in the same world as I live in that, where I'm reading about this and I'm in this constantly, most of us don't like walk around saying like, how is my nervous system today? I

Kevin: 26:37

live with you. I still don't walk around saying, how is my, you caught me with that question. I

Angie: 26:41

don't actually even say that to myself.

Kevin: 26:43

That's not true. She journals about it for 20 minutes every morning.

Angie: 26:46

Oh, get out here. But it is we can take those. Little breaks and resets throughout the day where we can just like, take a deep breath, check in with ourselves and notice am I tense right now? Am I feeling a little fried? Do I feel relaxed? Like it's really just asking yourself how you're feeling on any given day or at any point in the day.

Kevin: 27:03

That is a much more inviting way, just how am I feeling right now? And pausing for a few moments, taking a few deep breaths. Yeah. And honestly answering that question. Not, I don't have time to answer this ridiculous question. I have things to accomplish. Yeah, I bet you're feeling a little frazzled. is probably how you're feeling right now.

Angie: 27:18

And stress is stress. Like the way that I like to think about stress is that we have one stress bucket and all of the different stresses in your life all go into that same bucket. So running is a physical stress on the body. yes, there is a stress relief. there's a stress relieving aspect to running. For sure, but not if you're running hard all the time and not if you are feeling shame around your pace and not if you're frustrated and annoyed by your running. Now all of a sudden this thing that maybe used to be a stress reliever is now creating more stress in your life. And again, it's all being added to that same stress bucket. And when that bucket starts to overflow, that's when we get into trouble. That's when we get into burnout and injury and illness because there's only so much stress that your body can take.

Kevin: 28:06

Yeah, it's such an interesting concept because so many people look at running as a way to relieve stress. But as running starts feeling different, whether it's just actually the way it feels in your body or the times and distances that you're actually seeing. All of them then lead to, can very easily lead to mental stresses so that happy, joyful time might now just be, that might be one of the things that's leading it to more dreadful, I still should do this thing, even though it's not as enjoyable, part of the enjoyment might be being lost because you're throwing your own judgment on top of it.

Angie: 28:40

Yeah, and so one of the ways that you can help, if you notice that you are getting into physical or emotional burnout, one of the ways that you can do is, number one, just take a break from running for a little bit. That is definitely an option. But if that feels too farfetched, maybe just change what you're doing again, right? Like instead of going off on longer runs, try some shorter runs, try some slower runs, try some speed work, try walks or trails or new locations like. Those changing those little details can really make running feel so much different. what about you? have you ever gone through a period of physical or emotional or mental burnout with running?

Kevin: 29:18

Yes.

Angie: 29:19

When it, when's the time that you're thinking of that you can think of that, maybe more recently or. back, or earlier in your running years.

Kevin: 29:29

my fir literally, it goes back to what I started the thing with is that is the first time that I really felt this burnout, complete loss of spark was when I first got into trying to run on my own. And I took. October, November, December, January off of running. Like I took multiple months off of running Yeah. To try and figure out is this something I'm even going to miss if I don't do it. And it turned out that I did miss it.

Angie: 29:52

Yeah. What about this year, like after your a hundred mile this year, while you were in that cycle of illness for a little while there? what do you think was happening in your body? Do you think that was a kind of a physical burnout that your body was putting on top of you?

Kevin: 30:05

It might have been a physical burnout. It definitely wasn't a mental burnout, and it took me a little bit to not to overcome the mental frustration of not being able to keep running as much as I wanted. Yeah, that was a tricky part.

Angie: 30:17

Yeah. I think that we need to talk a little bit about that too, because there is that aspect, like we've talked about. How we can get upset that we're our paces and our distances might not be the same, but if your body is telling you physically you need to rest and you're burning out, but then that causes more emotional stress because you then can't run. That's a whole nother. Aspect that we haven't really addressed yet.

Kevin: 30:41

You kinda have to accept, like if my body is saying you're getting sick every few weeks, and every time you tell them what was happening too. that's what was happening. we've covered this I think on a previous one that essentially I was getting sick almost every four-ish weeks.

Angie: 30:54

It was like. Every three weeks.

Kevin: 30:55

Every three weeks. But for several months. Yeah. Like for several months this was happening that like once a month I would get super, super sick and basically be exhausted and in bed on one of the days of the weekend, I usually would just lose a Sunday. which is, was real rough on you also because then you know, I'm sick, you're not sure what's going on. I also can't do anything around the house. I'm useless on that day. There's a lot of stuff that I'm feeling on that there's a lot of stuff that you are feeling off that, and ultimately the answer is you probably just need to calm down. Pull back a little bit. Make sure that you are taking care of your body, that you are listening to it on the runs. Also that you're giving yourself the appropriate rest that. because it always draws back, it pulls me back to 2017 where I was so clearly overdoing it, and that year led to seizures. This year is just getting really sick and stuck in bed, and I'm just exhausted and taking naps all day long. is that just one step before, is it only hitting that Because I'm on meds, so I'm not having a seizure like. Otherwise, is that what the result would've been? it's tricky. And so when this was happening, I was like, I don't, I really want to be able to go out and run, but I can't, and I'm trying to give myself more grace. I've been doing it literally since 2018 that if I'm up too late, if I'm really feeling exhausted, if school is covering too much, like whatever the thing is, if I'm, like, I think I'm long term gonna be better served with an off day. I think that I've been better at doing that as I was reaching a goal a hundred mile race. I may have been overruling my body more often than I had been in the previous five years.

Angie: 32:37

Yeah. And it came back to haunt you like in the months following your a hundred, and I think that's part of what was. Annoying and frustrated. I shouldn't say annoying. no, I was annoyed and I was frustrated with you and it, and then I felt guilty for feeling that way because you felt like crap and so clearly your body was telling you, Hey, you need to be in bed all day today. And it was bothering me, not just because. I was losing you for a day and you couldn't help out around the house, but because I knew deep down that you weren't taking care of yourself in the way that you needed to. And I was like, why aren't you just taking care of yourself? And so that was annoying to me because I can't force feed you. I can't, there's a lot of things I can take on in our house and in our, in the business and all these things, but I can't. Take care of you physically. that is your job to feed yourself well, to make sure you're getting enough rest and hydration and all of the things. And that wasn't happening. And so that's part of where my frustration came in. And because your body was giving you signals and you were just pushing through,

Kevin: 33:39

I think that gets into, the should versus want to is it was such a combo is it was not just a thing that I felt like I should be doing to make sure that I was properly training. Yeah. But I was. I was enjoying the training process.

Angie: 33:52

Yeah. You really wanted to, and you were very much enjoying training for your a hundred miles like

Kevin: 33:56

I really was. But there also was definitely a component of should,'cause there's a really long distance race coming up and I need, wanted to make sure I was well prepared for it. it's still in the background. You still have to take care of yourself. Yeah. It's, it is not exactly on, on the same topic, but that part is still, there is, what I was doing was different. it connects to this guy is if you're gonna change things up, make sure that you're still physically caring for yourself along the way. If, if you go that direction, if you're like, you know what, I'm gonna run ridiculously long distances. Yeah. Extra food is going to be your friend.

Angie: 34:26

Always extra food. Yeah. but You wouldn't say that during this period of time, you've really, you really lost your spark for running because you wanted to be doing everything you really wanted. Yeah. But your body was basically saying no. Yeah.

Kevin: 34:38

No, I definitely still had spark. Yeah. I, and I wouldn't say I had energy. and that's

Angie: 34:43

where I think where it gets tricky, right? Because there, emotionally and mentally, you were feeling one thing about wanting to go out and do this, but your body was telling you that. There was something that needed your attention here.

Kevin: 34:56

Yeah. And ultimately that is a physical issue, like that was physical burnout. mentally I was still there, which is a weird combo.'cause very often they come together. so that was definitely a, just actually really take care of your body and support it so that whatever mental spark you have, you can follow that.

Angie: 35:14

And I think too, after your a hundred, you wanted to jump in pretty quickly. I think that you took. A little bit of time off, but then you wanted to jump in and underestimated just how much damage was done on your body in that a hundred miles. Running a hundred miles takes a very large toll on your body. And I think that you were trying to get back into it'cause you felt okay overall. Like I know that you weren't just trying to go out and do anything stupid, and you're like, no, I feel okay. But then you'd go out and you'd run consistently for a week or so, and then you'd end up, in bed again with. Sick over the weekend. Yeah. So like your body was telling you like, no, I'm not recovered yet. And there are so many times that runners experience this, and maybe not to the extent of running a hundred miles and then needing to take a whole day in bed, but there are these signals that we often override, and that's where I'm just inviting everyone to start to look at those a little bit differently and give your body what it needs. And so that I think takes us into. Number three, like the big reason, the third big reason where. You might have lost your spark, and that is that you've outgrown your old identity. And we dug into this a lot in our last episode, but we definitely need to touch on this today because that runner that you used to be, like Kevin's been talking about how when he was a collegiate high school runner and then collegiate competitive runner, that was one version of himself. And when. College ended and he decided, or actually when you, stopped running for the team, in college, you then had to figure out, okay, what kind of a runner am I now? Do I even want to be a runner? And I think that a lot of people in this next phase of life. After 40 perimenopause, post menopause, whatever phase you're in, maybe the runner that used to be maybe you used to chase goals and prs and times and have a certain image that you associated with yourself, but that might not fit who you are right now. The way you used to train might be differently than. What you're hearing us tell you on the podcast and you're starting to accept is oh, maybe I do need to shift the focus of my training away from just mileage and just pace, and really look into how do I get stronger? How do I build muscle? How do I build bone? But wait, those were never my focuses earlier in my training, and I got good results before. So really, is this really the way that I should be going? All of that is normal, right? and growth requires us to do new things. It requires us to set new goals. It requires us to become different people, become a new version of ourself, and that feels really weird. I. For a lot of people, and I think that's when you're noticing that maybe you're outgrowing that old identity, you're outgrowing. Maybe it's because your body's giving you these signals and you're experiencing some of these physical burnout, emotional burnout. You're noticing that your paces are slowing and maybe you feel like this new identity is almost being forced on onto you, which can be part of that difficulty with this transition as well.

Kevin: 38:21

Yeah. I mean it, most people resist change. Yeah. if you could just stay where you're at, it seems like a much safer, more comfortable place. Even if the change is going to be a positive, most people would still opt to where they're at because they know the current existence. and so most, when a new experience, a new way of running is, like you said, it's pushed upon you, like you keep trying to go out and train the same way and you're getting slower or you're feeling more exhausted, like whatever it is, it's just not feeling the same. The new thing is coming and you can't really push it. Off. You can't pretend that it's not there. Pretending that it's not there is going to lead to the burnout. it's eventually going to lead to some mental frustration. You kinda have to accept it and be like, look, we're gonna have an evolution here. If you went out and got a brand new car and you went from driving an SUV to driving a sports car, you would not drive the exact same way. Like you wouldn't, like if I'm driving a school bus and I drive a Corvette, the way I'm going to merge onto the highway are two very different activities. So when your body is having changes to it, and we're all going into our new little sports cars. Did you like the order? I put those things in. I was

Angie: 39:29

just about to make a comment on that. How there's a lot of people that go from sports cars into minivans.

Kevin: 39:34

no. We're going the other direction. Yeah. Now, in your Corvette body, you might have to change the way that you're. Training the way that you're setting goals, the way that you're doing things, and it's not I need to do this because I'm getting older. It's no, the equipment is working differently, and so you're going to need to train differently. Like when you hit the gas pedal, it's going to have a different reaction. You have to accept that the sports car accelerates different. You can do things in the sports car that you couldn't necessarily do in the minivan, and so have some fun with some shorter things because they're gonna be a blast. And you can do that. Your body is fully capable of that. And it might not be something that you're like, oh yeah, I would totally think of doing something shorter and faster. A lot of people move from doing shorter things. They can't quite go as fast on that, and they move towards running a half marathon, a marathon, and it doesn't really occur to them to go the other direction and pull it back to a 5K, but it could be a blast.

Angie: 40:29

Or they see that decreasing their distance is a failure. because there's a lot of people that have been doing the longer distances, half marathons, and their body's not responding the same way, and they think, okay, maybe I just can't handle this distance anymore. So they see the act of pulling back and going shorter distances as a failure.

Kevin: 40:48

Yeah, I mean there's all sorts of ways that you can try and quantify this. You go to races, they put everybody into five year age group buckets, so maybe you might not be able to hit the same PR that you could 20, 30 years ago. But what about the PR within this five year age gap? Yeah, age gap. Yeah, The, there's a reason why that, you can look online and find these age graded calculators and figure out what is my time equivalent. There's, I forget what the race is, but they do every single person in the race based off of their like, age score. So it doesn't really matter what your finishing time is, it goes into a calculator and they figure out who wins it. So like a 12-year-old or an 84-year-old could win it in that year because they had the best huge grade performance. Oh,

Angie: 41:26

that's

Kevin: 41:26

cool. Yeah, it's a very interesting thing. It's not necessarily the first person to cross the line. This is an actual biological thing that we have to accept. That doesn't mean that you need to stop chasing prs. It just means that you have to have maybe a new way of looking at prs, maybe a new way of training for those prs. I.

Angie: 41:44

Right, and just really redefining what success looks like in general. Like maybe it's not a PR anymore, maybe it's having more fun. It's running with friends. It's feeling really strong as you cross the finish line or standing on the starting line. Maybe it's smiling more when you're out there racing or high fiving. People along the routes and stopping to pet the dogs. there's so many different ways that you can redefine what success looks like. And I love seeing the posts inside of our group, like inside of the team, about when people post about their races. It's not just about the PR. People talk about some of the things that I just mentioned. That's where I got some of these examples of I got to PET 13 dogs on the run today and that was a successful day for that person. And I absolutely love that because. That is one way that running is bringing more joy into your life. If you love dogs and if you love stopping to pet dogs and you can do more of that while you're running, like that's just going to allow you to see and pet more dogs. Like I love exploring places on foot, and I'm gonna be able to see more of that place when I'm running because I can cover more distance in a shorter period of time versus if I'm just walking around the city. So there's a lot of different ways that we can gain joy and. Get that spark in, but we have to be able to give ourself permission to do that. And I think that's really key. And just understanding, okay, it's okay if running is playing a different role in my life. If it looks different, I'm still a runner. There's nothing wrong with me. I'm just going to explore this new aspect and this new running identity that I'm still creating for myself. And that can be very exciting.

Kevin: 43:22

that's the thing is it's always a runner identity that you're still creating. Like it's, you would not do things the same way in almost any other aspect. But we like to cling to running. I definitely do not teach the same way that I did when I was first hired. I don't teach the same way that I did five years ago. Like my, my. Teaching has evolved, my coaching has evolved, and so it makes sense that my running identity would also evolve. I don't parent the same way. We have very different kids. If I tried to parent them the same way I did when they were one That would be very interesting results to that.

Angie: 43:52

they might crash out on you.

Kevin: 43:54

They would totally start tweaking, I think is, I think I nailed that one. but could you imagine trying to like, cut up their food and airplane it into them? that would just be hysterical. They would lose it, but. We change all these other things. It makes perfect sense that we would adjust the way that we interact with other people around us as they change. But suddenly we're like, this is the way that I run. This is the way I've always ran, so that's what I'm going to do. No, it all evolves and that acceptance that everything is evolving, it's yes. Technically the, you're getting a little bit older and that's why there's some evolution, but that's the evolution to all of it. You're getting older, you're also getting wiser. You're getting more experienced in all of these things, and you might be doing it for different reasons along the way. Evolution is just naturally occurring.

Angie: 44:37

And so it's really important for us to remember that running isn't just something that you do. It is a part. Not all, but a part of who you are. It is a part. Of how you live. It's a way that you can stay connected to yourself, to your strength, to your freedom. And freedom's a really big part of why I love running. Because running gives me that freedom not only to explore, but also to stay strong in my body and to be able to jump in and do whatever the heck I want, with my kids, or climbing stairs or going out for hikes. Like I wanna be in good enough shape, or I can, my body doesn't limit me. And that is one of the things that I think. Running can bring every single person regardless of distance or speed or any of that. So what I would love to offer you today as our listeners is to reconnect to joy and figure out. Even if it's just one run, pick one run this week with zero that has zero pace or distance goal, just go out and run and maybe notice the birds around you or notice the trees or just like go out and decide, all right, I'm gonna run for a while and then I'm gonna turn around and go home. Maybe you can do that. If you need to put a time on it, fine. Put a time on it. I'm gonna go out and run for 20 minutes. Maybe pick a time that's shorter than the distance that you normally do and see how that feels. Does it feel really weird? Does it feel, like not enough? Like how does it feel in your body? When you go out and do a shorter run or a slower run, try to change up your running routine a little bit and see how it feels and see if maybe that can help you to reignite your spark.

Kevin: 46:15

I like it. you can mix things up for safety protocols. Sometimes there's certain routes that you already know, like just from a practical safety perspective, try running that route in reverse. Honestly, if I do my normal loop and I run it backwards, there are trees that I'm like, I didn't even know there was a tree there. Yeah. It's true. it's 30 feet tall.

Angie: 46:30

Yep. Absolutely. So one of the ways that you can reignite that spark for your running is to join our five day challenge running reignited. Head over to real life runners.com/challenge to get yourself signed up for, today. And also, feel free to share this episode, share the challenge with anybody that you think could use this like reignited spark. We wanna show you how to run in the second phase of your life. After 40 perimenopause, post menopause so that you can. Step into the strong and empowered runner and woman that you know that you have inside of you. Like this is the thing is if you're hearing this and it's sparking something in you, you know that there is a different, stronger version of yourself. And if you're. Wondering, I'm here to tell you that there is, so I would love to invite you to join the challenge. It is going to be both a physical and a mental challenge, for you. We're not just, it's not just about going out and running five days out of the week. That is not what this running challenge is about. I. It's getting going to help you look at your running in a different way, in a new way to prepare you the best for running after 40 in perimenopause and post menopause. So check it out today, real life runners.com/challenge and we will see you on May 12th. And as always, thanks for spending this time with us. This has been The Real Life Runners podcast, episode number 408. Now get out there and run your life.