Real Life Runners with Angie and Kevin Brown

395: The Highs and Lows of 100 Miles - Long Haul 100 Part 2

• Angie Brown

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In this second part of the Long Haul Recap, we dive into the concluding segments of a 100-mile ultramarathon. Kevin and his family reflect on the challenges faced during the race, including hydration management, dealing with calf cramps, and the mental fortitude required to push through such an endurance event. The episode highlights strategies for maintaining pace, the importance of strength and conditioning, and effective recovery methods post-race. Moreover, it showcases the emotional and logistical support from the crew and the sense of camaraderie among ultrarunners. This episode serves as a comprehensive account of overcoming physical and mental hurdles while celebrating the big and small victories along the way.


01:14 The Challenges of Running 100 Miles

02:21 Mid-Race Struggles and Strategies

05:51 Loop 4: Dealing with Heat and Hydration

13:07 Loop 5: Night Running and Caffeine Boost

36:33 Mental and Physical Challenges

39:00 Memorable Moments and Family Bonding

41:14 Navigating the Final Loops

47:04 Crossing the Finish Line

52:47 Post-Race Reflections and Recovery

59:21 Planning the Next Run 


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Angie:

And we're back. So if you haven't caught last week's episode, Long Haul Recap Part 1, head back to episode 394 for the first part of the story because this is part two. We'll be kind of picking up where we left off from our story last week and kind of continuing on to finish off how the race went for Kevin and afterwards and all of that good stuff. So stay tuned. What's up, Runners? It's time for part two. So, uh, as you heard at the end of last episode, we kind of ran out of time because it was dinnertime and there were things on the stove and real life happened and then we had a national championship to watch. And unfortunately, our team did lose. We are Notre Dame fans, um, but we still love the Irish. It was an amazing season and, you know, That's sometimes what happens. I mean, that, that

Kevin:

ties in nicely to the race is I have completed a hundred miles before this thing started. And so people, there was less excitement among like some of my coworkers at school, because they're like, well, I remember last time you, you did a hundred and is this different? I'm like, um, It's still a hundred miles

Angie:

and it's on a trail. So like you and I know the difference of this, but I think that it does lose the, maybe some excitement for some people that are more loosely connected.

Kevin:

I mean, honestly, if I was doing the exact same race as last time, it's still a hundred miles. It reminds me of that scene. Obviously very different expedition, but the scene in Apollo 13 where people kind of like lost the excitement of going to the moon They're like, yeah, I mean it's going to the moon. No, no, it's going to the moon

Angie:

Yeah, like

Kevin:

it's still we've

Angie:

already done that

Kevin:

like it's still running 100 miles And there's a whole lot of stuff that could go wrong which did I mean I, my race went great, but there was, there've been runners in there who have multiple times on like the all time top 10 who finished hours behind me because, you know, in 100 miles, there's all sorts of stuff that can just go right. If your stomach turns south, it could go really bad real quick. And it's not like, oh, I'll probably, if it's in like a marathon, you might miss your time by 15, 20 minutes. If something goes wrong in an ultra, you might miss your goal time by like three or four hours. So, you know, something going wrong is drastic.

Angie:

Yeah, that's wild. That was like when you and I were kind of looking at the results afterwards, there were a couple of guys that were first and second place for a while in the race and they didn't even end up in the top 10. I don't think like I was like, what happened to those guys? Did something happen? And we kind of found one as we went through some of their splits, like there was one point in time after, like, I think it was around lap five where the One guy took like a very multi hour break. So it was like, okay, something definitely happened there. Not sure what of course, but stuff happens over the course of a hundred miles for sure.

Kevin:

Yeah. And, and this race in particular, and it's the, it's true of several of these races, but if you complete enough of them, you get like a special buckle. So there's the 500 mile finisher buckle. And one of the guys who was up there, I think he was first or second for a chunk of the race has run the race. This was at least his third time that I know of, um, only because he has two of the all time top ten times for it. And I don't, I don't think he even broke 24 hours this time.

Angie:

Yeah, so stuff happens, but, I mean, I can see how coworkers or people that are loosely connected would kind of be like, Oh, okay, you're doing that again? Like, cause they don't really, it's hard for, Even me as a runner to wrap my head around a hundred miles, right? Like so people that don't run that that sounds amazing and superhuman and incredible, but they also are like Oh, you're doing another one. Like I wonder in their head if that's kind of like, oh, you're doing another marathon again You know like or another half marathon like there's my co worker that runs those ultras

Kevin:

Or, or there's my coworker that runs. Like there were people that told me, congratulations on your marathon. Like after I did this, after I knocked off a hundred miles, you're like, Oh, congrats on your marathon. Like, No, there are people that I would correct. And there are people that I'm like, thank you. Because they knew that I did a thing. And really they said, congratulations. So the rest of the words were not all that important. They knew that I did a big thing. It was a big thing for me. And so they said, congratulations.

Angie:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, cause technically it is an ultra marathon, right? They just forgot the word ultra and you know, the 75 miles also that went along with it, that is so weird to say, like you ran 75 miles more than a marathon. That's insanity.

Kevin:

Yeah, no, I did like. roughly four marathons.

Angie:

So crazy. Okay. So let's pick back up where we left off. Um, you, we left off, basically you were still in loop two and things were going fine. You were just kind of tired. So you went off in loop three and we know that basically when Kevin got back to us after loop three, that would be the half point. Um, of the race, which is always a fun time to talk about. But tell us before we jump into that, like, how was loop three for you? Do you remember? Like, we're kind of a week removed now. Like that's one of the benefits of doing this. Like the day after we got back, we, everything was very, very fresh. So this is a week later that we're recording this part of the episode. So do you remember loop three and what happened on loop three?

Kevin:

Loop three and four kind of blend together a little bit. But at this point in time,

Angie:

which is funny because your attitude when we see you at those two points are completely different.

Kevin:

I know, but just in general, some, some things that happened during those times, you've been going for hours. And so by this point, the sun is up. Like you're getting the full heat of the day and it was not a hot day, but. around the middle of the day, we also had some breakthrough in the clouds. So there was more direct sun at this time than earlier in the morning or in the afternoon where the sun, the clouds kind of started rolling back in a little bit. This was the sunniest that it got. So I was doing the best that I could to just get as much hydration to me. When I would hit aid stations, I was taking down gel with like a couple of cups of water that they would, they would give me. Um, I think lap three is when I filled up my water bottle at like the aid station at nine miles and the aid station at twelve and then refilled it when I got back to you guys because I just knew hydration wise. I wasn't I was not. I couldn't just do what I had been doing.

Angie:

Were you drinking plain water this time? That was one of the things that we had talked about going into this race about how you need to drink more plain water and not just rely on liquid fuel. How was your water strategy during the race?

Kevin:

I was just on, almost all of the liquid that I took in had calories in it. The only time that I took in plain water was at aid stations. If I was taking a gel, I made sure that I took it down with plenty of Plain water. Um, but then you would

Angie:

drink some cold water when you got back to us too. When we were refilling everything, we had like a bottle of ice cold water for you that you were drinking when you were back at the car too.

Kevin:

That's right. I don't pay that much attention when I'm back at the, that's my job, right?

Angie:

Yeah.

Kevin:

When I'm out there, when I, when I'm like, I'm coming up on an aid station, the aid station volunteers are amazing. And you show up and they, like woohoo runner. What can we do? And so I know this is coming because, you know, you hit the, the first aid station, you hit a mile, like four ish and nine ish. So you're going to get to this station twice and they're going to say, what can we do for you? If you have an answer for it, it gives them an immediate direction. If you're just like, eh, I'm kind of, I'm not sure, then they're not sure what to do for you. And it's, it's slowly and confusing and awkward.

Angie:

Yeah. So one of the things that we did do is. Kevin used scratch powder to put in his water for his handheld and so we made little packets of scratch that he took with him. And so that was one of the things that you said you basically did at every aid station is you said, here's the powder, please mix it with water and put it in my handheld.

Kevin:

Right. Which always got very interesting comments back for them. Are you, what exactly are you handing me in this little baggie? I'm like, I swear it's scratch. It's just, it's strawberry lemonade scratch. Try and get most of it in. And so Um, on 50, actually one of the things that happened on this one is My stomach was fine as I left it. This is the third lap, or this is heading out on four.

Angie:

Okay, so let's, let's get in here. So when you came back on three, because it was after you saw us after three, I think that your stomach got queasy. So when Kevin got back after three, now keep in mind, like he said, this was the, the heat of the day was on top of him essentially at this point. Um, and I've noticed this, obviously this is our third race now. Um, around this 50 mile mark, around that halfway mark, he gets, um, annoyed. And like, that's kind of how you were when you came back in that midway. After loop number three, you were just kind of annoyed. You like wanted, you were just like agitated and annoyed and you just wanted to like get Out as quickly as possible because like I was trying to like let you relax a little bit, you know Let's get some cooling towels on you and you're just like I just gotta keep I just gotta go run like and i'm like, okay Okay, like it's just you you're kind of agitated around that point and that's happened the last couple of races

Kevin:

yeah, because the cooling towels are great, but Anytime I stop, especially once I've hit around halfway, stopping just makes me feel super, super tight. Like if I stop and I'm walking, that's different because I can go at least at the halfway point, I can go from walking back into fairly productive running, but every time. from lap like, I mean, in this race, lap three, four or five, if I'm back at the car and I'm just standing there for several minutes, it takes me a while to get going. If I took too long at one of the aid stations, it takes me a while to get going again. Like my legs just are, they're so heavy and they don't want to get back to that running motion that it's rough. So yeah. And I'm tired and I'm hot and I don't want to be doing it anymore. I do, but I don't want to be doing it anymore. And yeah, like your job is basically like, all right, let's just give him, give him some fuel and send him back out there. He's going to be okay.

Angie:

He's going to be okay. Yeah. And so I did my best to try to like cool you down. And, um. Yes, kind of be as efficient at the aid station as possible and the girls I just like just don't worry about it This is just daddy getting agitated right now. Like it's not it's not us. It's not you at all He's already just run 50 miles. We just got to get him what he needs and send him back out

Kevin:

So on the third loop I started taking in some different Forms of fuel and we had talked about this before the race of trying to like Increase amount of like protein that I was taking make sure that I was even getting some fats in and so After the second loop at the car, I took in a protein shake like very liquidy protein shake not like a thick smoothie and then on the third loop, I ate a peanut butter and jelly throughout that loop also. So I was getting in a variety of different foods and by the time I headed out on the third loop, I was, you know, a little bit agitated. We'll stick with that word. That sounds like the nicest way to say how I was. Um, and by the time I got to the aid station around 54 miles, I just rolled it in the aid station. They're like, what can we do for you? I'm like, what do you have that makes make my stomach feel a little bit better? And she goes, I've got Pepto. But you may just be off on electrolytes. I'm like, I might be off on electrolytes, but I will take the Pepto also. So that's when I popped in a couple of those chewables, which was gross because that just stays in your teeth. And then every time you try and take a drink out of the water bottle, the rim now has this like pink residue on it, which is super gross for the next like 20 miles. Cause you're trying, but literally every drink for the, for the rest of that loop and probably more. Um, it's, it's there every time you take a sip.

Angie:

Yeah. So do you, do you have any idea now that you've kind of had time to think about it and look it over what maybe caused that sourness in your stomach? Or do you think it was just essentially running 54 miles and the heat and all of that? Yeah.

Kevin:

54 miles, the heat of the day. There was such a variety. Of things that I was taking in as fuel that I don't think I could say it was specifically that. Um, I, I think it all just kind of adds up and builds up.

Angie:

Yeah, and I think that a little bit of queasiness is probably to be expected, right? At some point in the 100 miles. I think like, did you ever have any sort of like GI cramping and things like you have had in the previous races? No,

Kevin:

not at all. Like this was, I feel a little bit queasy. It'd be kind of neat if I could, like, I didn't, I'm not good at forcing myself to burp. That's kind of what I wanted. Like if I could just burp a little bit, I'd be feeling better. And so I took some Pepto and that helped. Like literally my stomach was not an issue. After that other than the the like visual of the pink residue every time I took a sip out of the water bottle

Angie:

Yeah, so then is there anything else you want to say about loop number four because now we're on loop four, right?

Kevin:

So loop four, this is a

Angie:

loop that finished right at dusk.

Kevin:

Yes. So I thought heading out on this one and the pace that I was going for like the first half, I don't know. Somehow the, the first versus second half of the, the loop that I'm on the first one, you hit the same aid station twice and then you go to a different part of the park and that second half seems like forever. Cause it's from mile nine ish to sixteen and a half until I get back to you. And it seems like that second half is way longer than the first, but it's actually shorter. But you're just kind of off, and I can't see anybody for the most part. I'm lapping a lot of people. They're doing a lot of walking, so I just keep going past walkers. I thought I was going to make it back with like an hour to go before it got dark. And I was thinking about this, and I'm like, okay. I'm gonna have to take the headlamp with me. Should I put it in a pocket? Should I just put the headlamp on and then I don't know maybe 12 miles into that loop? I just started feeling not so good. Like my legs just weren't I didn't have the same turnover. I just wasn't moving as well I think it was a dehydration issue. And so I roll into the second aid station on lap four

Angie:

So this was about 100 K and you're probably around 62 miles then.

Kevin:

Yeah, which is So you've got like your marathon, your 50 K, your 50 mile, your a hundred K. Like those are some numbers that like can hit you in your head of like, wow, I've already done a hundred K and you still have so much more to go. So we're trying to get past that. So I probably hit that aid station at roughly a hundred K and I was not feeling great and apparently I was not looking great either because they're like, Ooh, are you doing okay? We got to get you back to like what, how. How long until you get to your crew is like do we need to take care of you here? Because it's only like two and a half miles to get back to the start finish line from them it doesn't feel like two and a half miles, but it's two and a half miles to get back to the start finish line and One of the the helpers at the aid station said you look like you're starting to overheat a little bit It's coming down like the Sun's coming down If we can just bring your temperature down a little bit and then get you back to the starting line, the sun will go down and you'll do so much better on the last couple of loops once the sun goes down. And so she took it upon herself to pour a pitcher of cold water onto me, which I did not think was going to be a great idea. I'm like, yeah, I know. I just, I need some cold water, maybe like, uh, you know, some straight ice water that I can drink, something that will help me. I think I'm, I'm dehydrated a little bit. And she goes, no, no, no, I'm going to pour this over your head. It's really going to help you feel a little bit better. And so she pours it over my head and I lean forward. So most of it like falls forward off of me. She goes, no, no, no, we got to get it like going down your back. It'll really help cool you down. And so then she poured ice water down the back of my shirt. And I, as, as you would kind of think you might do if someone pours ice water down the back of your shirt, I kind of like, jumped forward, so I like, shot my chest and hips forward, and as I did that, my calves cramped up on me. Like, both of them. Simultaneously. Not, like, spasm rock hard, but both of them were just like, Ooh, that's super uncomfortable. And then I had two and a half miles to get back to the car. And, I left the aid station like, alright, Temperature wise that felt fantastic, but I tried to start jogging out of the aid station and I couldn't like one It's super super ruddy right out of the aid station There's tire tracks that go in so you kind of almost have to walk that part But then you get around this like hundred meter stretch and I tried to go into a jog and I just couldn't I could not get myself jogging because my every time I started jogging I One leg would go or the other would go or both of them would go my calves were done with running I thought on the day which is a very good lesson for an ultra when your calves cramp up That does not mean you're done running on the day at all. I was just like I just I got to get back I got to get to the car and she's gonna be able to fix this thing But I've got to get back to the car, and I feel like my only way to do it is to walk the next two and a half miles. Which was unfortunate, because then I made it back at like dark.

Angie:

So that's basically what you did.

Kevin:

Yeah.

Angie:

That's when you saw that other guy that was like trying to help you too, right?

Kevin:

Yeah, so this guy passes me, and he sees that I'm like attempting to run, but really I'm just walking out there. And he's like, hey man, how you doing?

Angie:

I love this story because it just is the coolness of ultras. I think of how helpful the other runners are on the course, like to each other.

Kevin:

I mean, everybody's helpful. Like every person that I saw from the guy that I was running with at the beginning to other people that I'm passing the other direction, people that I'm lapping, everybody's cheering for each other. Not with always like a super amount of energy, but when you're. 12 hours into something you don't have that much energy, but like way to go feels like a lot at that point So this guy comes up next to me and he's like, hey, man, how are you doing? I'm like, oh my calves are just both of them are cramped up on me so bad He goes, I think I got some salt tabs. You want some salt tabs? I'm like, no, no I just have to get back to my wife. She's like two miles down this trail He goes, alright, you got you got this and and just left me with that of like, alright, you got this And so he takes off and does his thing I get back to you and, you know, we'll, we'll come back to this story in a second, but I gotta, I gotta wrap this story up. I come back to you, you take care of me and I head back out on lap five and I pass him again. And I go, you know, just trotting right past him. He goes, dude, what happened to you? I said, I told you, I just had to get back to my wife and then I was going to be fine. Did

Angie:

you also mention that your wife was a physical therapist? I did

Kevin:

not mention that,

Angie:

but that's okay. So, so yeah, so Kevin came in after loop four and this is like the fun part of the race where there's always one point where he gets a little loopy and it's super fun. He's just, he's just hilarious. Um, in my opinion, obviously I married him. So I think he's funny and the girls think you're funny too. So you start coming in and we see you kind of off in the distance, making your way towards us and you're like, And you like make, so you're like making funny sounds and like, okay, good. We're dad's dad's in a much better mood now than he was on the last time we saw him.

Kevin:

This is not 50 mile mark dad. This is 66 mile mark dad. We're doing good. Yeah,

Angie:

this dad. Yeah. So. Kev comes in, tells me the story, he's like, I'm like, okay, do you want, do you want to lay down? I can start working on your calves. I was like, you know what? Before we have you lie down on the ground, because like he said, anytime where he's just in a static position for too long, that's not the best for his body. Right? Like if you're standing there too long, you're in. not that you just stand still, you kind of move around a little bit, but we wanted to get him out as quickly as possible. It was just so that his body could get back into that rhythm. So instead of putting him down and stretching him out, which I'm happy to do, and I've done that before in the keys, I had to have, like, have him lie down in the car. And I was trying to, like, stretch out his legs because he was getting, you were getting some really bad calf cramping in the keys. That

Kevin:

calf, calf cramp was. Awful. I could not make my foot go the other direction. Yeah.

Angie:

So we've dealt with this in many ways before, but this time, the first thing I did was say, okay, let's just do some active stretching first, because in my mind, that was going to be a great tool for him if, in case that he was out there, you know, halfway somewhere, he could find a tree or something to do this himself. So I was trying to help. Empower him with a tool that he could use if this calf cramping should come up again. And so he put his hands against the, um, the car and was doing some dynamic calf stretching. I brought some wedges with me, so that was kind of improving how much stretch he was able to get in his calf. Um, and really after you just did that for maybe a couple of minutes, like you just did a couple of sets on each leg, you were feeling a lot better.

Kevin:

Yeah, I mean after that you're like, why don't you walk around and see how it feels and I look at you I'm like, can I try to jog? Like should I should I try to jog already or is there more you want to do before I try and do that and you're Like no, you can try and jog and I immediately was able to jog. It was not great form It looked more like marching than my normal running form But I had a cadence of running which was a complete new ballgame like that really like in my head right there I was like, oh, okay Now I can run the back end of this race because I I was not sure what I was going to do for the last 30 miles because I had just had to basically walk straight for the last two and that was, that would, did not seem like an enjoyable experience.

Angie:

Yeah. So we got him, uh, you know, fueled back up. You had another protein shake on that, uh, after that loop and had, you know, you had a honey stinger and some rock team that they were giving out during that loop that you, you were, told us and we just kind of wrote down, um, you took it another, one of the shake protein shakes that we had at the car. Um, and that at this point, this is when grapes started being the best food that you've ever eaten in your life.

Kevin:

Yeah. I mean, so I knew that this was going to be a longer stop. So one of the first things that we did was get the protein shake into me. Cause we knew it was going to happen on this break anyway.

Angie:

Well, especially with the calf cramping and stuff too. Like your, your muscles are obviously starting to break down at this point. You're 60 plus miles and 66 miles into the race. Um, and your muscles are breaking down. So, the more protein we can get into you to help, not that your muscles are going to like repair themselves during the race, but the protein, circulating protein is going to be a good thing for you.

Kevin:

Right. So, knowing that it was going to take a little bit of time, I took that thing in almost immediately so that my stomach could, process it and move it along because sitting there with all that protein shake liquid is not the easiest way to start moving again. Not that I was flying down the trail at that point, but it's just not the easiest. So, um, I took it back off on that one and yeah, on loop four, I also started adding a lot more caffeine to my regimen. Because, because I told you this as we were heading to the race because we were going to the race and dusk starts coming, I go, this is part of one of the hardest times to go because we've talked on on last week's episode of you can try and just skip over what mile you're at of, you know what, I'm going to run the mile that I'm currently in, I'm going to run this stretch of the trail, I'm going to run until the next aid station instead of trying to look forward and be like, I still have two more loops, I still have three more loops, whatever it is. But once the sun goes down, it's really hard to not have your mind recognize that you started running as the sun came up and you've been running and now the sun is going down. Like it's hard to put that out of your mind and not realize how much running you've been doing and how far you still have to go. Like that's a thing. And so, I knew this was coming and so at the aid station you could get some water but you could also get guroctane which is a lot of calories and a pretty good amount of caffeine and so I came in loopy and also fired up off a caffeine

Angie:

which is great because Kevin doesn't drink a lot of caffeine normally like he has basically one cup of coffee per day so because caffeine does affect you like I can drink a lot of coffee and not really have it affect me you like a physical response to caffeine.

Kevin:

Yeah. If I have a cup of coffee after noon, yeah, I struggle with sleep. If we get to bed at like a, our normal planned bedtime. Yeah. Like I struggle and that's 10 hours later, which I just, I don't process caffeine. Uh, and, and get it out of my system very quickly. It hits me relatively quickly. And so I was taking this guy, filled up my water bottle, instead of filling it with the scratch bag that I had, I was like, yeah, hit it with the Roctane. And so now I'm caffeinated and, and it's dusk. And I'm like, we're just having fun now. Everybody's going to get headlamps on. We're all just going to be some weirdos running through the woods with headlamps. And, and that sent me off onto loop five. So. Off I go.

Angie:

Yeah. So we had the headlamp on you and you were basically away, away we go. And so it did start to get really dark. And so the girls at this point, um, and I, uh, let's see, when did we left right before that loop actually to go get Chipotle, uh, because I did again, going back, if you remember, I did not do a great job planning our stuff as far as like camping and real food. Like we had lots of food and fuel for Kevin, but not really meals for the three of us. So. Um, we left after loop three before dusk, um, to go get Chipotle. And then we were back for that last, uh, little. Um, stop that we just talked about anyway. So the girls and I, um, ate our dinner and basically it started just to get really, really dark because we were out in the middle of nowhere in the state park and the sky was so dark and the stars were so beautiful. It was just so nice. And it was interesting because right at dusk, it started to get cold and I thought it was going to really get. Cooler and then it kind of warmed up later in the evening, which was kind of strange Yeah,

Kevin:

it went from like dusk and getting cool and then it got dark and immediately got humid Yeah, really humid

Angie:

really humid like everything was do everything around our car was wet.

Kevin:

Yeah, so was I I was kind of pretty wet At that point which also I had to change my shorts because my shorts were soaking wet after the yeah poured water down my back So I changed my shorts which changing shorts after you've run For as many hours as I was going is not as simple a task as it seems

Angie:

I was not

Kevin:

but I did it and off I went and so I'm off on then

Angie:

you had different pockets, too

Kevin:

Yes Which is why I love the first shorts because they've got a good amount of pockets on them and the second pair did not have The same level of pocket. Yeah,

Angie:

so pocketry

Kevin:

is the word I'm

Angie:

pocketry So we learned that we have to buy another pair of those shorts.

Kevin:

Yes So I'm out you guys sent me out with a good amount of calories because I was slowing down now And so instead of being like, all right, we need enough calories for him to cover this loop in two and a half Now we need enough calories in him to cover the loop in three and a half to four hours Because this could take a while so I need more stuff out there And I also knew I might be able to grab something at the aid station and get more fuel there

Angie:

Yeah, and I think that's a really important point to make. So those of you that are maybe preparing for an ultra yourself or you're crewing someone, it's important to go by calories per hour, not calories per mile.

Kevin:

As you slow down, you're already in a hole. Like you're essentially trying to take in as many calories as you can, because you're burning way more calories than you can consume and process. Like you consume them, but you're not going to process them. In which case, most likely they're going to come back up. So you're trying to get in as many calories as you can because you can't keep up with your burn rate. So basically you can't keep up with your burn rate.

Angie:

Okay. Now I'm going to ask a really. Uncomfortable personal question and if you don't want to answer it, it's totally fine, but I actually don't think I asked you this yet. Um, so What did you do about going to the bathroom? Like how, I asked you briefly, but like how many times did you have to go to the bathroom and where did you go to the bathroom when you were out there? Like, both number one and number two.

Kevin:

Two I used a port a potty one time.

Angie:

That's it?

Kevin:

One, one time I used a port a potty. So you

Angie:

only had to go number two once? Yes.

Kevin:

I don't remember what loop. I feel like that was somewhere in my second loop.

Angie:

And it was different on, in your other races, right? Like your other races, you had to do more than that.

Kevin:

My other race. Okay. Last race, I went productively and a port a potty that was like at a construction site that I'm sure I was not supposed to use, but it was open. And I went, but after that, I always. Felt like I needed to, but never could, which I believe goes back to my hernia issue is I just had this massive amount of gas built up that always made it feel like I needed to go to the bathroom, but I'd sit there and not accomplish anything. On the other hand, I peed in the woods. I couldn't even tell you how many times, all the time, which is

Angie:

good because I mean, that's much more acceptable out in the woods versus, you know, in someone's front yard as you're driving or running down Daytona.

Kevin:

Yes, that is generally frowned upon. But in the woods, I would kind of look before and after me and be like, is there like a female runner close behind me who's going to pass? Because that's, that's not trail friendly. So I would try and like find an open stretch so I could see behind me by a good amount, make sure I had some clearance. And then I just stepped to the side of the trail and go and then off and running again. Yeah. So I couldn't even tell you how many times that was.

Angie:

Yeah. Okay. But number two is only one time. One time. Okay. So, um, all right, where are we now? We're essentially, you're out on loop five after dark.

Kevin:

Out on loop five. I'm loopy. I'm making friends. I'm like a mile in. This is

Angie:

like a very fun version of Kevin. Yeah.

Kevin:

So now I'm chatting.

Angie:

And you're caffeinated.

Kevin:

Yeah. I got more, uh, more roctane at the aid station on this time also. Cause at this point I'm like, I just need as many calories as I can. And food is not feeling great for me. Grapes were the only thing that I could really. eat that involved me chewing something. So I was trying to get as much liquid calories as possible. I knew that Roctane had way more calories than the scratch that I was filling up my bottle with. So with that, but the calories came with caffeine. That was the only way I could do it. There was not an uncaffeinated version.

Angie:

Yeah. And you had a Martin three 20 on that loop too,

Kevin:

right? So you get, you really. Loaded me up on calories on this one. So I was doing a lot of liquid calories and So yeah, I've been running for a while. I'm punchy. I'm caffeinated, which is like the most talkative version of me I'm making friends with strangers I'm like high fiving people at their like at the tents that they've got set up to crew other people because they're like cheering I'm like, yeah, you're cheering for me. I'm high fiving you. This is the weirdest version of me

Angie:

Yes, it's definitely not normal. Kevin, as people know you, no,

Kevin:

not at all. Like I, I needed to retie my shoe. Oh, I needed to tie my shorts band because I was in a new pair of shorts and we had a whole pack of grapes shoved in the back pocket. So my shorts just keeps slipping lower and lower with every step on this. I got a handheld in one hand and a. And so I can't just keep tugging them up. So I get to this car and I'm like, Can I use your car? I need to put the stuff down out of my hands so that I can retie my shorts because this is not working for me. They're like, Of course! We're a crew tent! Use whatever you need! And awkwardly, I had like, Just past the person they were crewing. So then he had to come in and be like crude at his station as I'm standing there, tying my shorts on, um, like, why is he here? And we didn't make a sign for him. And so I finished tying my shorts and took off. Um, but I made a, I made a friend on that one briefly. Um, I caught up to him and he was going with another guy. They were kind of like trying to push each other on and I ran and he was like, I can go with this guy and I'm feeling good. And he goes, I, I am really trying to break 24 hours and I'm looking at my clock. I'm like, you can do 24 hours. He goes, I'm doing the math. And I feel like I should stop doing math. That's actually how he met me. He goes, I'm doing the math and I feel like I should stop doing the math. I'm like, I am a math teacher. You should never stop doing math. People should stop talking to me after I've been running for like 12 plus hours. No one should talk to me about math It's a bad thing. And so I'm trying to motivate him that he can do it He goes what lap are you on and I'm on I'm on five. He goes how fast are you going? I'm like, I'm trying to break 18. You can totally break 24 I don't remember his name, but both of us were just very much cheering the other person on as best as we could and That's it like that. That was our interaction with each other. I don't know if I saw him on the next loop I don't know if he broke 24 hours, but while we were next to each other I'm cheering him on as much as I can he's cheering me on it was helpful because we kind of were with each other through This like windy trail part where both of us had a headlamp going So it allowed us to be able to see things really clear because this loop things got real dark real fast and The headlamp that I've got I know that it lasts six hours But I wasn't sure that I was gonna be able to cover two loops in six hours And so I can put it to a dimmer setting and then it lasts for like 24 hours. So I'm like, okay Here's what I'm gonna do I'm going to run my first loop with Dusk, and as I'm passing other people, I'm going to use some of their headlights, and I'm going to have it on a dimmer thing, and then my second loop, where I'm getting even more tired and exhausted, I'm going to go full blast with the light, and go for it. So that was my plan. So I'm a little bit like not seeing things clearly on this loop. There's a couple of parts on the trail where the other people are coming back at you and they're shooting headlights straight into me, which is blinding temporarily. They're trying to like cheer you on. They're like, way to go runner. But as they say it, they turn and look at you and it's like a headlight. That's like that is way too bright right in my eyes. So that was like the ups and downs of loop five. On the second half of that loop, I kept stepping in holes on the trail, which was just so jarring, and thankfully, you were like, alright, if the calves seize up on you, you can do this, this is gonna help you stretch them out again, because every time I dipped into a hole, it was like, hamstring, or the quads, or the calves, something felt like it was on the verge of seizing up. Thankfully nothing really ever did it was just it was super jarring and uncomfortable as I went But anything that felt like it was about to go I would stretch the calf out and then I was able to keep going so I think Trying to hydrate and get as many calories in on this loop was super helpful Because otherwise hitting these holes I think would have just been an Like start of a spasm that I couldn't get out of.

Angie:

Yeah. So luckily that didn't happen and Kevin came back in for us and after loop five and this was great. And I was talking to a friend over the weekend and she was like, I just so appreciated Kevin's. Honesty throughout this process, especially that one point where like at 83 miles, he comes in and he's like, I just really want to get in the car right now because it's like, yeah, you've already run a lot of miles and you have to still go out and run another 16 and a half plus miles. Right. And so, um, so that's kind of how. you were when we saw you at Loop 5. Like, after Loop 5, you were just tired and you were like, I just want to be done. Like, I'm not done. I'm gonna go back out there again. But, I'm just tired. But you seemed well in all of the ways. It

Kevin:

was similar to the end of lap 2. Is, I'm tired. It'd be neat if I was done. I'm not done. There's nothing drastically wrong. I'm going to go back out and I'm going to complete this thing. I just don't feel great.

Angie:

Yeah, which is great. I mean, I think that was Wonderful. I think that you felt that way. Like it wasn't like, Oh, okay. I have to pull him. I never during the race. And this was one of the great things about my experience. There was never a point during the race where I felt like, okay. Does he need to stop this, right? Like, are we at that point yet where I need to step in and pull him back in any way? Like you really, of course you were dealing with a lot of stuff going on. It was a hundred miles, but you just seem so strong in this race compared to the other previous attempts.

Kevin:

Yeah, no, I, I never really felt like this one was getting away from me. And I mean, there was

Angie:

never a doubt in my mind that you were going to finish it.

Kevin:

The only, the lowest point that I had was On was on lap four because I really thought I was going to get back in and have like an hour of daylight on lap five and I got back in basically at dusk. Like I pretty much lit the headlamp as I left you guys. Um, and so that was kind of like that was a mental low and physically I was walking, but I really had full faith that if I could get back to you, you were going to make me functional for the next 35 miles. I also knew you. Like I had to accept during that two mile walk like this is tough, but if I, if I freak out over this, if I'm all panicky and stressed out, it's not going to bring my heart rate back down. So if you're walking, just accept that you're walking the next two miles. And as soon as I was like, no, no, no. Dude, you're just going to walk the next two miles until you get back to Angie. And then she's going to take care of you. My heart rate dropped another like 20 beats. And so I lost some time here, but it was a good chunk of, it was 40 plus minutes where my heart rate got back down towards like a hundred. Which was then nice to be able to go off on loop five because I started loop five at a reasonable pace again For me for that time in the race.

Angie:

Yeah, almost like a little recovery period there, right? That's what I was

Kevin:

like, this has to be a recovery period so use it as a recovery period

Angie:

Yeah, but you had to mentally get yourself into that place so that you are You physically could get into that recovery period.

Kevin:

Yeah, no. For the first half mile, that two and a half mile back, I was pissed. And I looked at my watch. I've been, I'm like, I've been walking for 10 minutes. Why is my heart rate still at 140 plus? Like I was mad and I'm like, Oh, it's cause you're mad. Why don't you stop being angry? Just enjoy the surroundings. At one point I passed somebody who was clearly enjoying weed in the middle of the park, like just mellow out

Angie:

on the right. Not a racer.

Kevin:

The park was still open, so it's unclear who was doing what, but there was, there's a big long straightaway, and I'm like, that is not the smell of a skunk. That's, that's not skunk smell. It's skunk ish. It's skunk adjacent. I'm like, and, and it just hit me. I'm like, Dude, just mellow out and you're going to be okay. Just, just get back to Angie and boom, the heart rate just started dropping. And I'm like, okay, so then when I leave, I'm going to be able to run again. Yeah. So that was, that was that one.

Angie:

That's cool. All right. So. So, in the last loop, like, what are your memories from loop six? After you leave us for the last time and you say, okay, I'll see you at the finish line. Like that was really cool. And I'm like, okay, well, I guess we can kind of pack up here where our jobs here are done.

Kevin:

Yeah. I mean, that was the, the nice part is you then had three plus hours to just pack everything back up. You move the car over to the start finish line, so I didn't have to go anywhere.

Angie:

So the, my favorite memory of this time was line. Outside under the stars in the big sky with my teenage daughter. Like that was one of my core memories. I think that will stick with me that I absolutely loved from this race. Like I love supporting you in this race, but I also love how much of a bonding experience it can be for us. Um, especially when the other daughter was in the car, like. getting mad at me because I don't remember exactly what I did, but I did something to make the 12 year old mad. And so having that time with the 15 year old was fantastic, right? So I don't want you all to, you know, be listening to this and be like, Oh, like what an amazing thing they, it is an amazing thing. And, and we did have a lot of really great family bonding time, but there was also a lot of, um, not friendly times, I guess to say, like, you know, the girls were fighting and this, what did you, you said something to me. The next day, I think, about like how smooth everything was, and how great the girls were, and I was like, Well, I'm glad you saw that side, because that's what I wanted them to portray to you.

Kevin:

Yeah, because as crew chief, you're like, no, every time he gets back in here, everything's going great. Like that is the attitude. No one is

Angie:

fighting. Everyone is focused on dad, period.

Kevin:

And it's not going to be very long. So if you'd like to refight again, that's going to happen in a few minutes.

Angie:

Right, exactly. So I don't remember any details of anything, but like there was one time that she got mad at me because I like moved her stuff and I wasn't hurrying fast enough to go to the bathroom with her. Cause she had to go to the bathroom and it was dark and I wanted to walk with her so that, you know, it's for safety. Um, and. I also just enjoyed walking as much as I could so that I wasn't just sitting the whole day long. Um, and I didn't do that fast enough so she was mad at me.

Kevin:

Yeah. I don't know. That's 12. There you go.

Angie:

Yeah.

Kevin:

Um, so in terms of like the race, five and six blend together. I don't remember events that happened on five versus events that happened on six.

Angie:

So on six, you took the extra light with you because of the darkness on five. You said, okay, I'm going to take that extra light with you. And you said that that went a lot better because you didn't, you could see more of like the dips and divots and didn't have as much of that jarring.

Kevin:

Yeah. So I, there wasn't like a blind hole that I felt there was one. On the entire loop that I didn't see coming, that I stepped in, that was like a jarring thing. So physically, when I was running, it felt nicer on the last lap, um, because I wasn't, I wasn't stepping in. Essentially, they're like, they're trail potholes. They're like, it's where there was a rock and the rock isn't there and there's a, there's a hole in the ground.

Angie:

How much would you say you were like running versus walking at this point?

Kevin:

By loop six, there was not a huge amount of, of running. There were people who were on pace for like, Probably 30 ish hours. There were people who were on their fourth Lap as I was on my sixth lap and I was like with them for a little bit of time There was somebody that I passed Her name was Emily and she goes are you back already? Is this lap six for you? I'm like, it's six She was what's your name? Like it's Kevin. She goes Kevin. You're amazing. I'm like, what's your name? It's Emily Emily. You're amazing So like we had that exchange. Yeah, I think she was on pace to hit like 30 ish hours because she was Two laps behind me. So that was going to take a lot longer for her to go in. And you know, as like all runners are essentially slowing down as the course goes, like it's, it's what's happening. Like you're going to be slowing down as this course goes. So like, that was a random interaction that I had. Um. Um, you know, there's, there's just a lot of, of cheering and support for each other.

Angie:

So when you were like running versus walking, what would you say that ratio is? I mean, obviously it's not like you were doing set intervals or set ratios. There

Kevin:

were people who were.

Angie:

Yeah. I heard some beeping going by. There's a lot of beeping. Yeah. There were a lot of people that like had the interval set up on their watch. But what would you say you were kind of doing at this point?

Kevin:

Running as much as I could,

Angie:

which is essentially what a minute, two minutes, five minutes.

Kevin:

It depended on, like, there was no fixed thing.

Angie:

Right.

Kevin:

That's the thing is, if I felt like I could be running, I was running. And that's what I was doing for essentially the entire last loop. I'm like, if you think you can run, you're gonna have to run.

Angie:

Yeah. And then what about the loops before that? Was it kind of the same? Yeah. Like, when did you, how did you decide, like, when to take a walking break throughout the race?

Kevin:

I tried to do as little walking as possible, at least in the first half after that once, you know, like you're in the middle of like a hard workout and your body's just like, you need to stop now. After you've been out there for so many hours, you don't need to stop, but it's tough to tell your brain. No, I'm going to keep going. Like it's tough to continue to say no for the 12th, 13th, 14th hour of the race, and then to hold it and be able to say, I'm going to continue to maintain a no for the next four hours of the race. And so at some point your brain overrides and says, Nope, we're going to take a walking break. And, and I did, I'm like, all right, so we're going to take a walking break. And I would be like, Until I get to that tree, I never was like, I have to walk for a long period of time. Now I was always testing to see like, can I start running again? Like there was always like, all right, now I'm going to try and start running again, get this thing going. Cause I knew if, especially as I'm like on the fifth and the sixth lap, if I walked for too much, I was not going to be able to run. So I did. a pretty good amount of running on lap five, lap six. I was just so exhausted that between Leaving the, the, that like primary aid station for the second time and getting to the remote aid station felt like an eternity. I took way more walking breaks than I was hoping to. I kept checking the clock and trying to be like, I think I might be able to break 18 hours. I think I might be able to break 18 and a half hours. Like I was doing a lot of math. Once I hit my like 90 ish, 85, 90, I start doing a lot of math. I get out to that aid station and it's like two and a half miles. The guy who's running the thing goes, What do we need to give to you so you can complete the last two and a half miles? And I look and I'm like, you are lying. It is easily three miles back. He goes, I've run it. I've run it so many times. It's two and a half miles. It might even be less. I promise you. And I had convinced myself, because this is the loop six, I had convinced myself that it was way longer. And I think part of it was because I had to walk it the entire time one time. I'm like, no, no, no, it's like an hour and a half to cover this distance. And he goes, it's two and a half miles. You could do it in 30 minutes. I'm like, I might be able to do it in 45 minutes. And it turned out that I could do it in about 35 ish minutes. Because, uh, I was like, okay, if he's, and he said it with such authority and he said it's two and a half miles. I'm like, I can run two and a half miles. There may need to be some walking stops in here, but I can run two and a half miles. And at no point do I need to stop and stand. If I'm stopping, I am power walking my way through. And so now it's the last two miles. I'm trying to debate with myself. What's faster walking because I could briskly walk and actually get myself according to my watch sub 15. or shuffle at like 12 minute pace and walk at 20 minute pace. I'm like, all right, for this stretch, I'm going to power hike. And then when I turn, I'm going to see if I can actually run and get my running back down towards 10 because that's what I was trying to do. If I could get my running pace under 10 minutes, then I was going to run. And if I couldn't, I was going to power hike this thing. That's kind of how I made it through the last like five ish miles. All

Angie:

right, that's cool. And so then tell us, When after you passed the place where our car was Right like because our car was parked about a quarter mile from the finish line So you pass by that and you know that you only have about a quarter mile to go like what's going through your head at? This point like where where are you at

Kevin:

at that point? I was running as fast as I could because people were chasing like I could hear The first female finisher coming up behind me with about a half mile to go. And I, I couldn't hear her. Well, I could, she was making all sorts of grunts and groans cause she was in a lot of pain and I could hear her pacer cheering her on. And he was like, all right, we're going to cross this road. We're going to take a walking break over the road. And then, you know, it's a left turn and you'll be able to see the lights of the finish line. And we're going to run that in. And I'm like, Oh, Oh, first female finisher is going to run that in. I am running this thing in because I did not want it to come down to that last straightaway because the, the final like 30 meters into the finish line, you hit a paved path and there's going to be taken pictures of the first female finisher. They were taking pictures of me also. They're taking pictures of everybody. I don't need pictures of me trying to outkick the first female finisher. That's not, not going to happen.

Angie:

Yeah. So you had to open up enough of a gap that that did not happen.

Kevin:

These are the options. open a gap over her or let her pass and beat me by a solid minute. And I'm looking at the watch and I'm like, I am running a pretty good time. And so now suddenly I'm motivated that I'm, I couldn't break 18, but I was clearly well under 1830 and I couldn't remember exactly what my PR was from the last race. And I'm like, it's, it was 21 something. I think it was 2120 ish. So like

Angie:

18. Yeah.

Kevin:

I'm like, I can, I think I can now hit a three hour PR. So I'm moving. I like, I passed where the car was. There was no walking suddenly, you know, it's the same thing. When you see the finish line of a 5k, you've got a gear that you didn't know existed. I had energy reserves that I didn't think existed

Angie:

after a hundred miles. Like that's the wildest thing.

Kevin:

Craziest thing. Now suddenly you're like, wait, I can fully run at. Almost my normal form and a reasonable pace and I'm shooting down this straightaway. I passed a guy And he was kind of weaving because both of our headlights are going I'm like, I got you I'm on the left and so he then moved over to the right and I passed him came through the finish line As soon as I crossed the finish line, I was done. Like there was no like, Oh, I'm going to jog it out through the fit. No, I was done. Get me a chair. It was like,

Angie:

where can I sit down? Cause everybody was focusing on the female coming in. He's like, where can I sit down? And then somebody brought him a chair. Well,

Kevin:

cause I knew that if I. turned left, I could get into like the main aid station building and there had to be chairs or benches or something in there. So I started going that direction and I think it was you that called back and you're like, where are you going? And I was like, aid station chairs.

Angie:

I know. And I'm like, no, no, no. I need to take pictures. We need pictures.

Kevin:

So you or, and, and one of the race directors got a, got a place for me to sit down. First female came in, she finished, I was taking pictures with her, her whole crew and she had a big group of people came over and celebrated her amazingness, um, and then you were getting pictures of me. You didn't even notice that the race director handed me my finisher's buckle.

Angie:

No, I didn't. I missed that.

Kevin:

Yeah, no, she was very good. And efficient because she also knew that first female finisher was coming in and she wanted to make sure that she had like the trophy for her also. And like, cause it's a very cool kind of carved out wood carving trophy that she gets. Um, so she made sure that she got everything for me and then was able to focus on her also. So, um, it was great. You know, our, our older one knew that I got my buckle. She saw it come to me. So she got to watch that, but the girls were so tired. Cause you would like just woken them up too.

Angie:

So like they, they, especially the younger one, she was so cranky. And I was like, daddy is finishing the a hundred mile race. We need to go right now. And they were like, they were both like zombie ask. Like Riley gets out of the car. That's her older one. She gets out of the car and she's just starts walking. I go, where are you going? She's like, I don't know. What do we, what do we. Where are we? Because I had moved the car while they, I had moved the car while they were sleeping from that, um, over to like right next to the finish line. Cause I asked the race directors, I'm like, can I please move my car so that, you know, when he's done, he could just get in the car and doesn't have to walk back to the car. Absolutely. You know, and they were so nice. They said, absolutely. So, um, they get out of the car and they had no idea. They were so disoriented, had no idea where we were. And I was like, come on, we have to go. Dad's coming in. So, but

Kevin:

once I made it there and then we, I made it back into, you took some pictures of the finish line. I made it into the aid station. The other one just flips it and snaps into gear. It's like, what can I do to get for, what can I get for dad? And she helped me get some food. Um, you know, she just walks me, even if I'm getting the food, she just walks with me to make sure that I don't fall over because she has no idea. Like I've run a hundred and. Almost 102 miles on my watch. And so she's like, if he falls, I should probably be there. Not that I could catch him, but I could alert somebody that he's laying on the ground now. So she's, she's great. And then we, uh, I got some food into me. All the volunteers. I hadn't seen any of those volunteers because I never went into that aid station. It was only a quarter mile from your car. So I go in and the one's like, Oh, what can, what can I get for you? I'm like, do you have ice water? Just cold water would be amazing. She goes, yeah, sure. Here have some water. Asked what loop I was on. I'm like, I'm done. She goes, Oh, okay. Cause they had literally never seen me because they live in the aid station house and I just ran past it every single time. So that was like, it was a weird interaction with those volunteers.

Angie:

Yeah, that was kind of fun. So what, you know, we're coming up, uh, on an hour here. So what are kind of some of your final thoughts about this race? Like what were. Yeah, and if you have any favorite moments, if you have any least favorite moments, if you have any takeaways, like what are kind of some of your overall thoughts on this?

Kevin:

Uh, increased strength. That's that's like, as I was running, I'm like, all right, it was good that I maintain my speed. I think that that was really important because during

Angie:

your training, yeah,

Kevin:

during my training, because you know, uh, a small percentage of going pretty fast is still relatively quick. That's what I was saying is. If if I could run in like mile 90 through the finish if I could take it under 10 minute pace That's not physically that hard for me to do if I went out and ran right now But at that point it was exhausting and I think that that's part of partly because I was able to still be running like I Don't know 16 minute 5k if I was really really pushing myself But I think that strength I did some good strength, but the month ish leading before maybe two months leading before it was not where it needed to be. So my strength training needs to increase. Um, that's a big one.

Angie:

I agree.

Kevin:

I think we did a great job fueling. Um, You know, we talked about this on the last episode, making sure that I can hydrate while I have the vest on, I can do it when I've got a handheld cause I know when the handheld gets empty. I know when to refill. I can keep track of that, but I can't, I can't sense as well how empty the pack is.

Angie:

Yeah. So I think that when you have the pack on, it's more about on a schedule, right? Like drinking on a schedule versus like trying to sense how much you've already drank. I

Kevin:

guess. Um, so that's something to work on. Um, let's see what else music is amazing. Like music is phenomenal. Caffeine is, is super great. Like we're at the finish area and I'm like, I think I'm just going to stay up until the hotel has breakfast. I think that was the one line that crack you up. You're like, that's so many hours from now. You're not going to do that. No, we're

Angie:

not doing that. We're going to stop at the waffle house on the way home, which apparently is going to become a tradition because there's not many things open at 2 AM. And if you finish, you know, around these, these times where we're looking at late night types of food options. Either that or I just need to be better, uh, packing up a post race meal option for you when we get our, our camping stuff.

Kevin:

I was curious if you had gotten me a Chipotle.

Angie:

I was going to and the girls told me not to.

Kevin:

Yeah, I, cause it could have gone either way. What do you

Angie:

think? Would you have wanted it?

Kevin:

At the end of this race, that would have been fine. I would have been totally okay with that. At the end of last race, I really wanted Waffle House. Because I had run past, I don't know, a thousand of them on the 100 mile journey. This time you run in the middle of the woods Chipotle kind of sounded good, but you know, if your stomach's not doing great, that might sound like a terrible idea. So

Angie:

I was going to, and I like ran it by the girls and they said, no mom, that's not a good idea. Like we're just going to go get him food. And so they, they overruled me that time.

Kevin:

Yeah. They also stayed in the car and slept as we went and got food. Um, and it was, it was fine. Um, I felt better at the end of this one. And so. Food that didn't taste good, didn't taste good. And food that tasted good, tasted good. So, like, I had a hot dog at the end of the last race. And it was the most amazing hot dog ever. I had a hot dog at the end of this race. I was glad that it was, like, a salty hot dog and that it had some bread wrapped around it and I had ketchup on it for the sweetness. It wasn't good. It had been cooked for, I don't know, hours and we're just sitting there staying warm. It was not good. We had Waffle House. It was Waffle House breakfast. Last time we had it, I'm like, this is so good. Everybody should have some of this. I felt better. And so it's like I had more awareness of what was going into my body. So that was also an interesting takeaway on this one too.

Angie:

But I also think it is super important that, you know, if you are somebody that, is doing ultras, you have to get food in as soon as possible. And as much as possible, as much as you can tolerate at the end of the race, it's going to make recovery a lot better. So it's been a week now. How did you recover after the race? How did you feel the day after a couple days after? Where are you with recovery?

Kevin:

The day after I was. Stumbling like I was I was struggling. I could have made it to school. I was really glad We didn't have school on that Monday. I could have made it I would have needed to do a lot of sitting at school But you know, I was just kind of hobbling around everything was sore There wasn't any specific area that was like that is awful But just generally I was sore. I wore my calf compression sleeves all day long that kind of helped me move around and as the day went I kind of loosened up and was I wouldn't say moving normally by the evening, but I was moving by the evening. Um, and then I went back to school on Tuesday and my brain was not functioning. And part of that is because I had to go back to like my school schedule and get up early in the morning. But part of it is I think the recovery process hit my nervous system in a way that like Even though it was two days later, I just wasn't firing on all cylinders. I was trying to do like basic arithmetic and it just wasn't working. I was trying to explain math concepts and it's not that the concept wasn't there, it's that I just didn't have the words to use. So everything was just moving slow in my brain. Body felt way better that day, but my brain wasn't working.

Angie:

Yeah. And my favorite update was when Kevin told me he was so excited because he bent over and picked up a pen off the floor that day.

Kevin:

Like, like a kid dropped a pen and I casually bent over and picked it up.

Angie:

Like I did that. Like you were so proud of yourself about it. It was the cutest. I

Kevin:

mean, I was still on a caffeine high by that point.

Angie:

From the Roctane.

Kevin:

From two days earlier.

Angie:

Yeah. Um, so yeah, so overall, I mean, my. Uh, assessment, I guess, like my point of view is that you have been recovering fantastically well, um, like you said, you're a little bit sore on Monday, but basically from Tuesday on, you started walking normally by Wednesday, you were definitely moving around the kitchen quickly and normally, and you've been moving around the house. It's pretty normal.

Kevin:

I feel like I walked the dog on Tuesday, that I had the physical capability of actually walking the dog on, on her like

Angie:

Tuesday night

Kevin:

on her, yeah, on her night walk. So I mean that, that's pretty good because that's like, if things don't go wrong, like what if the dog sees something and she pulls, like I was strong enough and functional enough that I could do that.

Angie:

Yeah. So overall recovery has been going very well. It's been a week out. When do you think you're going to run again?

Kevin:

Um, so thankfully for for me, the weather was miserable in the week between the race and and a full week later, like it was cold and rainy most days, and that prevented me from having the desire to go out and run because I kind of wanted to at least go out and walk, maybe to see if I could jog. And I know that would be a bad idea, but I wanted to. So I think the weather helped me not Why

Angie:

did you want to? I just As a test? Yeah,

Kevin:

I'm like, I feel fine. I should go out and be running again. I enjoy running, and I realize Just because you

Angie:

love running. Yeah,

Kevin:

I do. And I know that I just did 102 miles, but I'd like to go out and get a run. Because I haven't run in a few days. It's certainly by like Thursday, Friday, I'm like It's been a while since I've gone out and gone for a run. I would like to go out and go for a run. Um. But it's now been, what, nine days and I have not run. So I would like to be able to go out and run. Um, I did a little mini strength session with very, very low weights today. And that went super smooth.

Angie:

He did not clear that with me, just FYI.

Kevin:

I did not clear that with you. But I also didn't do anything dumb. And as soon as things started feeling like this is a lot of weight that I'm holding, and it was not a lot of weight that I was holding. Or, Maybe I don't need to do that many step ups. Like my goal was 20. I made it to 15. I'm like, and I'm done It's not that I couldn't do another five more. It's just why yeah, what's the point? I think that's where you're very often coming out with like why you need to come back from this We've got a lot of people that we train that's like well How much time do I need to take off after a marathon? It's like well you should take Some time off after a marathon, like you don't want to do anything hard for like a week and some people are trying to run like two days later and you can, you totally can run two days later, but to what end, like, what are you getting out of that workout? If I went out and ran, what would I be getting out of it? And at this point, the answer is, I don't think I'd be hurting myself anymore and I would be mentally giving myself some joy because I have not run in a long time. And as long as I don't push it, I don't stretch the distance. I don't think that I'm, I'm at a point where I would be hurting myself anymore.

Angie:

Yeah. And I think that that's really the key that we have to look at is what is the point of the run? It is not that you're losing fitness. It's not that you're worried about that. Like if that's your reason, it's a bad reason. Okay. So if you finish a race and you. feel like you need to get back out there because I don't want to lose my fitness. That is not a good reason to cut your recovery short in any way. If it's just purely for the joy and for the movement, that is a good reason, right? Like Kevin said, as long as you're not doing any more damage, because you don't want to have to, if you go out and you push too hard or you do too much or you jump, Into soon, you're just delaying your body's recovery, and that's just going to make whatever training block you go into next harder and is going to set you up and increase your risk for injury, which we don't want. Obviously, the key and you guys have heard us say this on so many of our podcasts is to make sure that your body's actually recovering From the hard stuff, running a hundred miles is the hard stuff, right? So you need to make sure that your body is recovered enough that you can get back out there safely and not do any further damage.

Kevin:

Right. So I think I'll, I'll get back out there this week. I really would like to go for a run. It sounds like a great plan.

Angie:

So when you go out for a run, what is your plan for that run? Like on your first run back,

Kevin:

my plan is to start by probably walking for five to 10 minutes and then Running for one to two minutes and then taking some walking breaks Like maybe one to two minute runs as I come back. It's kind of like how I came back to running in april Is essentially how I'm gonna come back into it after surgery. After surgery. Mm-hmm Is ease my way back in and see how it goes. There's no reason to rush back into this. Yeah, if the first run goes fine as like a very gentle run walk, I can add more running the next time and then I can add a little bit more running the next time and eventually I'll be out there running again. I don't need to rush this thing. It's gonna be just fine.

Angie:

Yeah, and I think that's really, really important, but it is important, like you said, for your mental health and for the joy because you do just love running and moving your body and getting out there. And that's what I think is. We really need to keep in mind is mobility and movement is really good good for you As long as you're not pushing yourself too hard going out for a walk throwing in a little bit of jogging in there These are all really good ways to recover from a marathon or a really hard workout or race You just don't want to jump in too much too soon.

Kevin:

Yes, that seems like a good takeaway

Angie:

All right, any other final thoughts before we wrap up?

Kevin:

Internal organs on the inside

Angie:

that is always a good idea. Always

Kevin:

a good idea a good

Angie:

idea All right, so thank you to everyone that followed us through this journey, both on Instagram that were following our Instagram stories that day and that have listened to these podcasts. We really appreciate it and we love all the support that we've gotten from all of you. So if you like this series and you found it helpful, please share it. Leave us a review Spotify to let us know how much you enjoyed it. And we'll be getting back to our regular programming next week. So as always, thanks for joining us. This has been the Real Life Runners podcast, episode number 395. Now get out there and run your life.