373: An Unknown Secret To Your Running Success

In episode 373 of the Real Life Runners Podcast, we delve into the concept of Mudita—sympathetic joy—and its significance in sports and personal life, emphasizing the importance of genuine joy for others' successes. This episode also highlights key takeaways from Olympic events and commercials, pointing out how these lessons can make us better runners and humans. Additionally, we share insights from a recent business retreat and discuss the balance between competition and compassion, using various Olympic stories and commercials as examples.

01:43 The Concept of Mudita

03:32 Applying Mudita in Running

07:38 Olympic Commercials and Community Support

15:25 Personal Running Stories and Inspiration

24:10 Finding Joy in Every Run

24:51 The Power of Celebration

26:48 The Controversial Nike Commercial

27:31 Winning Isn't for Everyone

29:51 The Mindset of Elite Athletes

39:21 Embracing Mudita in Running

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Transcript

Angie: 0:00

Welcome to the Real Life Runners Podcast, episode number 373. In last week's episode, we talked a lot about the Olympics, specifically about Olympic track. Cause we're Olympic nerds around here. So today we're going to expand it and take a bigger overview of some of the bigger lessons that we took from not only the commercials throughout the Olympics, but also with a lot of what happened throughout the Olympics and how we can apply that to make us better runners and really just better humans. So if that sounds interesting, stay tuned and don't forget to share this with a friend, if you liked it. What's up, Runners? Welcome to the show today. So today's episode is going to be a combination of. piggybacking off of what we were talking about last week with the Olympics and also, some of my takeaways from a business retreat that I went, to last week. So I spent a couple of days in California with some of my entrepreneur friends and business besties and it was just a very special experience. Self reflective retreat, definitely not like a typical business conference. And we did a lot of journaling and self reflection and, self discovery types of exercises, and there was one. Theme that was introduced to us at the beginning of the retreat that I thought was very applicable to the Olympics and to a lot of the things that we saw in the Olympics. And that is the concept of Mudita. So Mudita is M U D I T A, if you've never heard of this concept, it is, I believe a Buddhist concept, that basically means sympathetic joy. So it's, Genuine joy for someone else's success. And to me, this could have not been better exemplified than by Hunter Woodall when his wife, Tara Woodall won the gold medal in the long jump. And they have been blowing up on social media since this happened. And it was just the most beautiful show of love and support. And there's a video. That you can find on Instagram of Hunter watching Tara, just throughout her whole long jump experience and just the genuine look of love and joy on his face and he's really exemplifying that concept of mudita, which I think is something that is so important for us to start to cultivate in our lives for so many different reasons.

Kevin: 2:41

Yeah. You wanted to make a whole episode about Mudita and I wanted to do episodes about the Olympics from now until Christmas. And so we compromised and blended these ideas together here and are going to bring this into a combination of lessons through the lens of the Olympic commercials and also this phenomenal couple. They also have a YouTube channel. You could probably catch all the videos on their YouTube channel. They've got over a million followers before she went off and won the gold. Yeah, no, they're. They're phenomenal couple. So they're fantastic. But a

Angie: 3:11

lot of us were introduced to them at the Olympics, and I think that's really cool. And that's one of the things, I think the Olympics really made a lot of, stars. And I'm curious to see how, how long that Olympic fame will last.

Kevin: 3:24

yes. The Olympic fame. honeymoon of famed him

Angie: 3:27

up. Sure. I would just say fame.

Kevin: 3:30

It's already a noun.

Angie: 3:32

so let's talk about this concept of Mudita and like how we can apply this to our lives. Because I think that in the running world, specifically in the running social media world, or maybe even maybe if you're a part of a local running group, you have other people. That you run with or run around, or if you do local races, you'll probably notice that the same people show up regularly And that can lead to a lot of comparison. And comparison is really rooted in either judgment or jealousy. those are the two things that comparison usually leads to. And neither of those are good options. But it's so easy for us to fall into that comparison trap. And there of course is the saying, comparison is the thief of joy. And it really is true. when we start to compare ourselves, a lot of us, when we start out, we don't On our running journey. We do it because we're trying to do something good for ourselves. We're doing it because we want to challenge ourselves or get healthier or lose weight or improve our cardiovascular health. something that's based on us. And when we get into it, sometimes that you Can some like shift into comparison against others? Like, where do I stand in comparison to some of these other people? And that can either make us feel good or feel bad. And I would argue neither are really good things to go by.

Kevin: 4:55

Yeah. No, you, the ability to have some comparison to yourself and how you're doing on that day, and not even like to your best ever, but simply to what am I capable of? Yeah. Of on this day, that's really what the Olympics embody. And we had an episode on this, I don't know, last Olympics. So three years ago on the motto of the Olympics is, city assault is 40 years, which is literally just about. Competing and trying to get the best out of yourself by working with the people around you. that's what competition is. It's literally working together. That's why it starts with co because it is striving together. That's competition, not trying to push the other people down around you, but striving together to try and get the best out of yourself. what we highlighted at the beginning of. This amazing athletic power couple was his sheer joy of watching his wife compete, and that's phenomenal that takes anything. He doesn't compete up against her. He's just cheering for her, but was as enthusiastic as excited for her success as he would be for his own success. Two weeks later when he's competing.

Angie: 6:07

Yeah, and I would argue, and there'd be a lot of people out there that would tell you is because he was able to feel that complete joy for someone else. you can see it. You can feel it when you're watching him, watching her, you know that is. Pure unfiltered unadulterated love and joy that he is feeling for her and her level of success And when we can do that and we can feel that for other people that puts us on a different plane that puts us on A different frequency because versus comparison, you know when you're comparing to others Oftentimes we compare and we see that we are less than others or you know Even if we compare in order to make ourselves feel better, you're still dropping your frequency because comparison is not something that's going to raise your vibration, raise your frequency on this planet, but being able to genuinely celebrate someone else is going to raise you more onto their level, which then is going to make you more capable of success or of a similar success to them.

Kevin: 7:11

It's being able to see somebody and this happens a lot in the Olympics, see some incredible athletes and not think, Oh man, that's so phenomenal. I feel bad about myself, but see this incredible performances and think, wow, that is inspiring. I can level my own game up towards that. And it's not that we all have to strive to be Olympians, but it's just that little bit. Maybe we could support other people around us that cheer it. One of the commercials that I thought connected to this was a beautiful Commercial. It was Toyota. and they had a series of commercials and the one was like all of these athletes getting ready to pack up and head off to the Olympics. And they were athletes from sports that were not necessarily the big high publicity athletes. There's like a weightlifting guy is there. out of it, and as he's packing up his stuff, the kids in the neighborhood, because he's a New Zealand athlete, so all the kids from the neighborhood stand out in his yard and do the, that haka dance, it, that's phenomenal, that's the support system that you need, and it's not oh, look at this guy, he's off in his own world. He's great because other people are surrounding. And then that commercial continues like halfway through the Olympics. We stopped having that one. And we had the athletes were competing and it was the same guy putting his hands onto the bar. And as his hands put onto the bar suddenly 50 other hands joined him because he wasn't lifting solo. His community was there helping him every step of the way. That was the whole point of the commercials and it was is beautiful for being, a giant company commercial. But like it's still this beauty. Beautiful storyline. I love the Olympic commercials. They're very touching.

Angie: 8:50

Yeah, so basically what we can take away from that is that well their tagline was start your impossible No journey is taken alone, right? So taking a look around you to see who is your support system who do you have on your team? That's there supporting you. Are you Saying thank you to those people that are maybe Making sacrifices or helping you with your to get to races or with your meals or fueling or taking care of the kids while you're out running like who is part of your support system and, being able to. Acknowledge that those people, even, in your, within yourself, in your heart and express gratitude for them and realize that there's a lot of people, because I think that running can sometimes feel very lonely. If you really look at it, it's a solo sport for most people. And so it can be a lonely thing sometimes. So when you are feeling that way, can you. actually look around you and see how many people are actually there supporting you.

Kevin: 9:52

Yeah. it's beautiful. Like when I crossed the finish line last ultra marathon, you and the girls were right there with me and you had been there for hours and hours now, 22 hours that you had been there with me. People were taking naps. You kept driving down the road. Another one took a nap. You kept driving down the road and you were there with me and I didn't, Have enough energy to grab all of your hands and pull you across the line together. You weren't sure if I wanted to cross solo. And I was so close to the line and just wanted to lay down and I like stopping and grabbing you guys and pulling you across the line. So all four of us could cross over together would have been. I just didn't have the energy to pull that off and I hadn't expressed beforehand that would have been a great way to cross the line. But that would be a great way to cross the line because I really, as many of those miles, was me trucking down the side of the road. The whole group of us. We're able to accomplish that. I couldn't, there's no way that I could have accomplished that without the three of you and your full support, not just on the day of the race, but literally for months and months beforehand, also of allowing me to get out and put in the miles and put in the work to be able to put myself in a position to cover the distance.

Angie: 11:08

Yeah. And I think that was really also an example of Mudita in my life, because I did have just. Absolute genuine joy for you crossing that line, knowing that's something that you had been working towards for such a long time, being able to accomplish that goal was so special and to be able to be there and support you, really, I think was, it was a great example of that for me as well.

Kevin: 11:33

I think so. one of the other big commercials that highlights a, it's a different way of looking at this was Coke brought us a great commercial. It was. a reflection back on what happened a few years ago at the Tokyo Olympics in the swim. Okay, so the South African athlete, Tatiana Schoenmacher, whose name I'm probably mispronouncing, she had just set the world record in the 200 breaststroke, I believe, and her country mate came over and hugged her. So happy that not that she had broken the world record, not that she had gotten whatever metal, but that her teammate had broken the world record and won the event and came over and hugged her. And then the two Americans who also were trying to get the world record, they joined the hug and it became this like group hug. And then the other swimmers came in and they all had this Group hug moment and Coke decided that they were going to recall that and play out these big names of all these athletes who are returning for this Olympics and they named them all and like the commercial starts. It's it names the athletes like the biggest rivals in swimming and then there's a pause and Schoenmacher hugs the other athletes like the two American athletes and the other South and South African athlete and they all just hug each other before the race even starts. It's just standing there on the starting line, they climb off the platforms and they just hug each other, and everybody watching this happen inside the commercial. You get people around the world watching this happen, and just random strangers start hugging each other. And it's this whole idea that sports can pull us back, that we don't have to be like, crazy. cutthroat. It has to be this, I win or you win. And that's the only option. It's a clear cut black or white. We can also just be there and supportive of each other.

Angie: 13:21

Yeah. And I think it also is. It's and a great example of the concept of, when you win, we all win because we all rise together, right? It's like this idea of, the faster someone else becomes the harder I have to work. So it elevates the whole team. And this is one of the things that we tell our cross country team every year as well, that, Every single person on the team matters. It doesn't mean, it doesn't matter if you are the first person on the team crossing the line or the last person on the team that crosses the line. You and what you do in practice, what you do in the meets, it all matters. Because if, even if you are technically the slowest person on the team, the person with the slowest time. If you're working hard to get better and you're pushing yourself, your teammates are going to see that and you're going to inspire your teammates to push themselves harder. And then they're going to get faster. So by every single person doing their part in raising themselves, Up as an individual, it helps elevate the entire team along with it. And I think that's, we saw that so many times in the Olympics, the gymnastics is another great example of that. the five gym gymnasts were all so supportive of each other and they were so genuinely happy when one of their teammates or even one of their competitors, like when Brazil won, when Rebecca and Roger, won the gold medal in, was it balanced beam? Yep. No, floor. It was floor. Yes, it was floor. It was when Simone and Jordan bowed down to her in the metal ceremony. Metal ceremony. But

Kevin: 14:51

during the team cut, no, during the individual all around, when and Roger was up on the balance beam, you can literally hear Simone Biles cheering in the background. All right, girl, you've got this. Like she's prepping for her dismount. They're literally battling. One of them is going to get a gold medal and the other is not because that's how it comes down to. And she's still. Cheering on at that point the person who was currently beating her on the numbers Yeah, and she was still cheering for her because it's if she hits this dismount then I really need to hit it in my Next event. This is what's going to elevate both of us

Angie: 15:25

Yeah, and I think that how can we apply that to ourselves as real life runners, you know Whatever race you're in the local competition, maybe you do have a little local rival, sometimes those things can pop up and they can be fun, but you can also, use anyone in any race that you're doing as someone that you can stick with. Like one of my examples for this in my personal running journey was. This 10k that I was running and I was trying to run for a new PR in this race And I was struggling at one point in time and I locked my eyes up on a runner that was in front of me She was wearing a skirt. So she was easy to pick out and so I just said just stay with the skirt like I just don't let her out of my sight and she ended up Crossing the finish line before me. It's not like I beat her and, went and ran past or any of that. But she, by pushing herself in that race helped me to push myself and helped me to run the PR that I wanted to run all along, which is super cool. she didn't even know that I was there. cause I was far enough behind her that she did not even know that I was there. But just by her pushing herself. who else in your life are you inspiring? Maybe it's a random race. Maybe it's someone driving down the street and that sees you run. Maybe it's someone in your family that's Oh, she's doing this. I wonder if I could do something like that too. Like we hear stories of that all the time. So it's this proof of when you grow, when you. work to try to elevate yourself in some area of your fitness, your life, your health. Who else are you inspiring to step up and do that for themselves as well?

Kevin: 17:00

Yes. To tie back to the thing, did you then find her after the race and hand her a Coke and enjoy that in the post race party?

Angie: 17:05

But I should have. You should have. there was probably no Coke available there.

Kevin: 17:08

Oh, there's supposed to be, that's maybe a

Angie: 17:09

banana.

Kevin: 17:11

Here, have a banana and a half of a dried up bagel. It would be the best.

Angie: 17:16

Yes.

Kevin: 17:17

That's the local 5k, beautiful commercial on television, but yeah, it was, it had a little different sponsor to it.

Angie: 17:23

Yeah. in another commercial, I'm not sure which brand it was. I think it was Hyundai maybe, but where, the, It shows, the little kids watching the athletes on TV and then, doing those things in their own life, the little girl that, watches the one guy fall on the track and then, help the other track athlete, they, help each other up and then she's, it shows her, in her soccer game, somebody falls and she helps that person up and, there's another kid that's, watching Noah Lyles dance and then he's, celebrating and dancing and it's just, by, Us being us. And by by you being you and you like living that, that joyful life. And by being a good sport, like you are setting an example for people around the world that you might not even know.

Kevin: 18:05

Yeah. I cannot remember which one it is that she watches the one track athletes trip over each other and then stop and get each other up. The one where they're. Where Noah Lyles is dancing and then the kids at home are dancing. Yeah. That's an NBC commercial.

Angie: 18:16

Oh, that's a different commercial. Those

Kevin: 18:18

are two separate commercials. That's

Angie: 18:19

those. Oh, no allies. He's in that commercial. Also, he is

Kevin: 18:21

also in that commercial, but the one where, but it

Angie: 18:23

was when he like in that commercial, he like went over and congratulated his competitor. Yes. And then it showed like the football player then going over and congratulating his competitor. Yes. That's what the, yeah.

Kevin: 18:34

Yeah. that was that one. But the. The one where Noel Isles is dancing and that one is NBC and that is their, bring the joy campaign, which that commercial kept seemingly evolving as the Olympics went because they just kept highlighting different ridiculous celebrations from the Olympics of athletes that one or athletes that meddled or like just crossing the finish line and it was this beautiful, bring the joy campaign. And I feel honestly, that's part of why we all watch the Olympics. Like the Olympics are amazing. Like it's a spectacle of some of the greatest athletes in the entire world. But could you imagine if the athletes did their thing and then shrugged and walked off to the locker room? would you still tune in with millions of people worldwide? Watch this. If there wasn't such a level of excitement afterwards, like we all know on some level, the amount of work that we put in to our own races now ramp that up to what is required to compete at an Olympic level. these are such emotionally charged events because you have to have put in years and years of preparation. And then maybe you medal

Angie: 19:47

at the highest level to

Kevin: 19:49

highest level. Like your dedication is so through the roof and maybe you medal, maybe you get like a national record. Maybe that's just your personal best or, and this is why I watched like one of the morning sessions of track. It was athletes in the opening rounds of the hundred. They weren't technically in the main event yet. They, cause they hadn't hit the qualifying time, but they had qualified from their country through this like development program. And they got to go to Paris and compete in the Olympics and the fastest people out of these, Extra morning sessions they added on then got to compete against the eventual gold medal winners in like the opening rounds So just being able to make it to the Olympics and represent your country The joy that brought watch some of these athletes in the opening ceremonies in the parade of nations just being there some of these athletes are just so overwhelmed with emotions because they That's phenomenal. That's where the joy comes in and that can inspire you knowing that joy is possible, but just watching it and being like, wow, that's the level of joy that I want to bring. And if I can bring it, imagine the level of competition I can bring myself up to also.

Angie: 20:58

Yeah, I agree. I think that joy is something, whether it's, Genuine just joy for being alive, being a part of whatever it is that you're a part of joy for someone else, joy for yourself and the journey of how far you've come in your own running journey or your health journey or just your life journey in general, the more joy we can bring to anything, I think the more we can elevate ourselves, both with our performance and just our overall satisfaction with life and with our running. Because I think that sometimes You know, running can be a little bit of a grind, especially if you're training for a longer race that there's definitely weeks of those trainings that just feel like a grind and you're like, why in the world am I doing this? And if you can go back to joy, in some sense, I think that it just can bring more of that lightness to it of just, just the joy of being alive. can you celebrate just the. Act of running. The fact that you have two legs and are able to run, which not everyone can do, or you live in a safe area of the world where you're allowed to run, not everyone can say that. And I think that when we can bring in that joy and that gratitude, it really can be, Game changing, life changing, competition changing, however you want to frame it and to look at it. So another one of my favorite commercials was the Dick sporting goods commercial, which is here's to the big moments that happen every day. And I think this was

Kevin: 22:24

my favorite.

Angie: 22:24

Yeah. And I think that this is definitely applicable to. Us as real life runners, because that's what we're doing, right? Like we're out there every day. Like those big moments happen every single day. It's just whether or not we recognize them as big moments. the little clip of that little toddler that was probably two or three years, probably two years old, kicking the soccer ball into the goal and throwing his hands up in the air had to have been one of the cutest moments ever, in the Olympic commercials.

Kevin: 22:54

that one's adorable, but I like the other kid in that commercial who is running home. And then with three steps to go, he goes into his own slow motion. And there's a couple versions of it. Cause there's one version that like they cut to that kid as one of many of these like great sport clips. There's phenomenal touchdown catches and like a half court buzzer beaters, all these great shots. But then it cuts into this clip of the kid who's like. It's t ball. It's that age. So he's two steps from home and then he's put himself into like slow motion Baywatch running I'm like the final few steps, but the long one that's just him is he does it for five steps in a row and then dives into home in a slow motion slide and just lays on The next kid is already standing there. That's my favorite part of it. Is the next batter is standing there with his bat. And, you know the umpire and coach who are all standing there within three feet are just nervous that the other batter is going to get distracted and swing his bat and just take the poor kid out. But it's so funny. It's phenomenal, because it highlights that, at the end of the day, we're all playing a game. And, the joy and the excitement of that kid who decided to make it into a slow motion replay, and doesn't realize that slow motion is something that the cameras can do for you, and he didn't have to slow it down himself, but he's having a blast out there. And if that's the kind of energy that we could bring, to Huh. It's Wednesday. I just got to go get in more miles as I train for this race. They could make that run just a little bit more exciting. And if that current run can be a little bit more exciting, that run can have a more positive effect on us. And if all of our runs can have just a little bit more of a positive effect, that overall training cycle is going to have a much bigger positive effect and you start stacking training cycles that have a much bigger positive effect, and suddenly your training has exponentially grown because you decided You're just going to actually enjoy all of the times you get to go out and run, which it doesn't have to be an amazing thing. You don't have to bring it for every hard workout. You can just bring, you can celebrate the wins of everything. You can celebrate that. Oh, I was supposed to get in five and I got in three. You can celebrate that because maybe you were thinking you were going to get in zero and you went out the door and you got in your three and that's something to celebrate. So you can celebrate whatever you want. You can make all of these little things, big moments to you because we get to dictate what the big moments are.

Angie: 25:21

Yeah. And life is made up of moments. So why not? Make them exciting moments. like not to say we have to do this all the time because it's very important. And we've talked about this many times on the podcast. Like it's important for us to have highs and lows. We can't just be excited all of the time. And the lower moments are what makes, what make the high moments so much sweeter and so much more, rewarding when we go through those lows, but at the same time, we really do have a choice every single day with every single run that we go on to frame it in the way that's going to benefit us in some way. And on one day it might benefit you to. take the negative approach and to look at, okay, look at the weaknesses and find those areas that you really need to improve upon. And on other times it might benefit you to really find the joy and not worry about the paces. And there's so many different ways that we can approach a run on any given day. Which one's going to benefit you the most that at that time.

Kevin: 26:22

Yeah. And I think. Celebration, and joy, and smiling, even when it's not feeling great, is such a great way to go into all of your runs. This is uncomfortable, this is unpleasant, and I'm still choosing to do it, and I'm still celebrating how I got it done. Whether you hit the numbers that you were supposed to, or you were like, You know what, I'm leaving the watch at home today, celebrating. That experience I think is beneficial.

Angie: 26:47

Yeah. All right. Now we have to talk about the Nike commercial because to be honest with you, I don't think I ever saw it the whole way through because I have a tendency to block things out. I should probably go back and watch it. this of me though, too, especially if it's doesn't grab my interest. Like I've definitely saw. The winning isn't for everyone, like the block letters and that they put it on the final screen of this. And you were the one that was like, Oh my God, that commercial is awful. And I'm like, what? that tagline is harsh and you're like, no, the whole commercial. And I never actually listened to it. So is this do we want to read this commercial? what do you want to do with this? Yeah,

Kevin: 27:23

no, totally read it. I think that the tagline is actually the only part of the commercial that I like, because I actually, and we can get into that. I agree with the tagline.

Angie: 27:31

Yeah. Winning isn't for everyone. Yeah. And we've talked. Before I think about how, participation trophies and all of these things can be detrimental to us. Like competition is a good thing. There should be, especially at a level like the Olympics, there needs to be a winner and a loser. That's how the games are set up. That's how most games are set up. There's winners and there's losers. And that doesn't mean anything about you as a person. It just means on that given day in that given competition, one person or one team performed better than the other one.

Kevin: 28:02

So this commercial got a lot of publicity through social media, which ultimately I think is what Nike wanted. They didn't even care whether people agreed or disagreed with it. The fact that they would get people talking about it, I think made it a winning commercial. So it is beautifully narrated by Willem Dafoe, who's in some of my favorite movies. And, I am going to wreck it because his voiceover is so much better than mine, but I'm going to bring it out anyway. So here's what we've got now. Before I begin, it starts the opening image of it is of a kid on screen. that's the opening images of a child. And then it flashes to all these amazing, professional athletes competing in different things and various images that we get. But the opening image is literally a kid. So that's where it goes. And then the, The script to it says am I a bad person tell me am I'm single minded. I'm deceptive. I'm obsessive I'm selfish. Does that make me a bad person? Am I a bad person? Am I have no empathy. I don't respect you I'm never satisfied. I have an obsession with power. I'm irrational. I have zero remorse. I have no sense of compassion I'm delusional. I'm maniacal you think I'm a bad person Tell me, am I? I think I'm better than everyone else. I want to take what's yours and never get it, give it back. What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine. Am I a bad person? Tell me, am I? Does that make me a bad person? And I finished watching the commercial and I said to our daughter that I was watching it with because you were not here when the Olympics started and I turned to her and I was just like, yes, like that's, that was my takeaway from the commercial is yes. And at the same time, so many of the professional stars that they have in the commercial, that list of attributes, they are so Yeah,

Angie: 29:51

I'm curious about that. did they have to get their permission to put them? I feel like they had to, right?

Kevin: 29:56

No, those are Nike athletes. So they can use

Angie: 29:58

their image and likeness however they want to.

Kevin: 30:00

Kobe Bryant's in the commercial. They did not get Kobe's permission.

Angie: 30:03

Yeah, that's definitely not a Kobe way to, to operate.

Kevin: 30:05

But here's the thing. Kobe could turn that attitude on when he needed to.

Angie: 30:11

Yeah, but I would argue that not exactly that attitude.

Kevin: 30:14

if it was. Last second shot it were the game was on the line and he needed to drop 20 points in the fourth quarter He would flip on and he had it. It was mamba mentality and he went to a different place so that he could compete And then when the game was done, he could flip it and he could be dad. He could be you know, teammate he could be Other people, but he could go into this place where competition was the most important thing, but he had another side. The way this commercial is presented is, it doesn't seem like you're allowed to have another side if you want to compete at that level. That's the framing that it gives.

Angie: 30:52

but the way that you just framed it was different, so that's interesting too, is that is this the mindset that athletes at that level need to have during the competition? I wouldn't say need to, but does it benefit some athletes to have this type of mindset? I have zero remorse. I'm not going to feel bad if I beat you today, right? that's what there's like, I'm going to take what's mine. And I'm going to take what's yours too, because that's mine, because that's what winning is. And is that what the winning mindset, you and I would probably argue, no. But is this something that can work for some people? Maybe

Kevin: 31:29

I think it can work for some people, but I think that it is over very short timeframes. And that's my issue with the commercial is the commercial makes it sound like this is a lifestyle that you have to live in order to reach this level of sport in order to touch this level of greatness. it says winning isn't for everyone, as though In order to win, like the connection that they don't directly say it, but the connection that they're implying is if you'd like to win, you have to be a bad person. Like you need to knock off these things. It's like a checkbox. are you maniacal? Are you delusional? Do you have no compassion for those around you? If you can knock off all these things, then maybe you have a chance of winning everything. Then maybe you have a chance for greatness. And I think that's ludicrous.

Angie: 32:16

Yeah. some of this stuff in here though, I would say, is are helpful traits for athletes at this level, like the, I'm obsessive, to be a professional athlete, there does have to be a level of obsession. You have to be obsessed with your sport, obsessed with practicing and, with the, your level of greatness in that sport, if you want to be an Olympian, or if you want to be a professional athlete. Yeah.

Kevin: 32:40

Okay, I counter that though. Who's the diver that our daughter likes?

Angie: 32:45

I don't know. He's

Kevin: 32:45

a boy diver. He's British. And as everybody else is Yes.

Angie: 32:49

Oh, he was my, he was the guy that crochets.

Kevin: 32:51

Yes! Tom! He's literally in the middle of the Olympic competition and he's crocheting up in the stance. And then an hour later, the next day, he is on game mode. yes, 100%, there's a level of obsession when he's diving. There's a level of obsession at certain times, but he has also developed this other Hobby? Yes, he's developed a hobby, because he needed some way of backing out from the obsession. Because if he was 24 7 obsessed, I don't think he pulls down medals,

Angie: 33:22

right? I agree with you. And I think that's really what it is, can athletes get into this mindset and then get out of it? I think is the, that would be like the healthier thing. And this is when, people have said this about Some athletes in the past that we weren't, that we won't talk about, but, how they couldn't turn it off, and that ultimately was their greatest strength and also their greatest weakness. And, but like some of these things of I'm never satisfied. that's true. if you are an athlete at that level, you're never satisfied. you can't be satisfied. I shouldn't say you can't be, I see. Cause I would frame it as you should be satisfied with your performance and also keep reaching for greatness. keep reaching for something higher. can you be satisfied? Can you be proud of yourself that day? And then still. I think it can be both and. It doesn't have to be either or.

Kevin: 34:09

and I think they're trying to set this up as such more, so much more of a black and white. Of, I'm never satisfied, it has to always be more. And that's where that line of, I'm gonna take what's mine is mine, what's yours is mine. And it's I see where they're coming from, but when you split it with lines that say, I have no respect for you. Nope. When it's I have no respect for you and I'm never satisfied. That's a real short step to, I'm going to start taking performance enhancing drugs.

Angie: 34:35

but not only that, but You always have respect for your competition. Like even if you want to beat them, you should always have respect for your competition. And I think that this like commercial to me is the perfect example of why athletes at this level almost so often have mental health issues because they do get into this type of mindset. maybe they don't have the. The coach that's giving them both sides of the coin like there are some very intense coaches out there, and I don't agree with the way that a lot of coaches out there coach and people would say, Okay, but it's working. Clearly it worked for this person, but did it like obviously they're they are an Olympian. They are competing at the highest level at what cost? Like at what cost? And I think that's one of the things that I loved about Simone Biles this year and her comeback was she pulled herself out like her mental health at the Tokyo Olympics was not good and she pulled herself out of that competition and people were brutal on her and the comments that people were making of how selfish she was and how she, didn't, how she was weak and all of these things. And then she came back and showed them like, no, I needed time to work on my mental health and look at me now, I love that she came back and did as incredibly well as she did this time around.

Kevin: 35:51

But some of these lines, you could argue fit her nicely. others are like the complete opposite of her. I'm irrational. Like they put up the ages of the last going back to 72, I think the ages of the all around gold medalist. And the oldest was. And that was when Simone Biles won it eight years ago. Eight years ago! And then was not able to compete at the last Olympics for the all around, and then came back and won it again. That is irrational. people, she got a lot of critics in the last Olympics, and then came back this one, and people were like, why is she even coming back? She's so old! And it's okay, one, she's 27, Just calm down. But for elite female gymnast, that seems ridiculous. That seems ancient. And so there were a lot of people that were like, I, she's got to be. Just

Angie: 36:41

because it's never been done like that before.

Kevin: 36:43

And she said, yeah, watch it. Watch it be done.

Angie: 36:45

I'll show you.

Kevin: 36:46

And sure, maybe there is a bit of delusional to that because in your head to do what's never been done, you have to have a little bit of a sense of delusion.

Angie: 36:54

No, all of it. I would argue it's all delusion. Like all of us are delusional. We're just, it depends on what direction we are delusional.

Kevin: 37:02

And it depends on how many people are watching.

Angie: 37:03

Yeah, but it also, everything is a delusion, right? everything that in that happens in the future, we have no idea what's going to happen. So the future is all but certain. It's literally pure possibility. Whatever future you think you have or whatever goals you have set for yourself can be anything, but they are all just delusions. They're just things that we make up in our mind and tell ourselves that this is what's going to happen.

Kevin: 37:27

Excellent. An excellent point there. You got me stumbly, but yeah,

Angie: 37:30

She used that to her advantage and said, watch me, look what I'm going to do. I'm going to break these records. Some people use it to their disadvantage and say, oh, I'm getting too old. I won't be able to do this. how many runners have said that? and unfortunately how much of that was corroborated by their physician, right? Like they go to the doctor and the doctor's they're like, Oh, my knees starting to act up. Maybe I'm just getting too old for this. And the doctor says, yeah, maybe you are. maybe you should pick a different sport, a low impact sport instead, right? but we all make up these things in our head and decide what we can or cannot do. And there's lots of evidence that we can use to show ourselves how right we are, with whichever one we choose, but it's all a delusion.

Kevin: 38:10

Yeah. So on that one, You would argue that I'm delusional works for all of us because that's just a human trait

Angie: 38:16

Yeah, but which direction do you want to push it?

Kevin: 38:17

Right on the other hand of the line of I have no empathy and I don't respect you makes absolutely no sense We've literally we've already pointed out that she in the middle of the all around competition was cheering for her competitors the joy that she had for her u. s. teammates the like the hugs that they have you watch this throughout the gymnastics competition The athletes are giving hugs to each other and some of them look genuine and some of them look oh I'm supposed to hug this athlete when they walk by or oh, I'm supposed to say good job when they walk by But others of them seem remarkably genuine and I think that they are Some of the athletes have found a way to reach for the best in themselves while still supporting that the people that they're competing against are reaching for the best in themselves and that on any given day they're gonna be Maybe they pull the gold or maybe they don't, but everybody's trying to get the best out of each other. They don't want to get the gold because somebody else stumbled. They want to get the gold because everybody showed up as best as possible and they still got the gold.

Angie: 39:18

Yeah, exactly. Cause that makes it even more sweet. And All of these things apply to us as real life runners too, right? Can we be joyful for someone else's success? Because when we align ourselves with that joy and feel genuine joy and excitement for another human being, that is going to elevate you, that's going to elevate your performance, that's going to elevate everything about your running or your life or your business or whatever it might be. remember that concept of mudita and practice it in your own life. Find ways that you can be genuinely happy for other people in your life because that is going to help you as well. And also keep working on yourself. Keep elevating yourself. Keep challenging yourself because that can also inspire all of those around you.

Kevin: 40:04

Excellent. That is why I'm very excited for my eventual upcoming ultra marathon. It's a loop course. It's a loop! You get to see other people throughout the entire race. On a point to point course, you don't see that many people outside of your crew, and I loved seeing you guys, but on a loop course, you could be getting passed by people, you could be passing other people. I've always enjoyed out and back courses when running like a marathon or half marathon because you get to see other people and cheer for them and they'll cheer for you. And there is nothing quite as boosting as cheering for somebody else and then having them cheer back at you. it's really remarkably sustaining. I think that is part of What's the term?

Angie: 40:41

Mudita.

Kevin: 40:42

Mudita. There you go.

Angie: 40:43

Yeah. All right, you guys. If you liked this episode, we would love it if you would share it with a friend or leave us a review on your favorite podcast player. That will help us to reach more runners and just show us that you appreciate all of the work and time that we put into the podcast every week. So as always, thanks for spending this time with us. This has been the Real Life Runners Podcast, episode number 373. Now get out there and run your life.