358: Fix Your Stretching Routine: 3 Common Mistakes Runners Make

In this week's episode, we debunk some common misconceptions about stretching for runners. Drawing on my experience as a physical therapist, we discuss how many runners wrongly blame pain and injuries on inadequate stretching. We focus on correcting the top three stretching mistakes: not stretching at all, stretching too much, and stretching incorrectly. We stress the importance of dynamic mobility work over static stretching, offering practical tips to enhance performance, prevent injury, and maintain mobility. I advise on dynamic pre-run stretching and highlight the benefits of dynamic stretching post-run.

02:18 Diving Deep into Stretching: Myths, Mistakes, and Methods

06:05 Understanding Flexibility vs. Mobility: A Key Distinction

10:22 The Role of Stretching in Running and Daily Life

15:49 Starting Your Stretching Routine: Tips and Techniques

21:44 Dynamic vs. Static Stretching: What You Need to Know

22:26 Understanding Your Body's Needs for Stretching

23:51 The Dangers of Overstretching: A Deep Dive

27:58 Addressing Weakness and Misalignment Through Proper Stretching

33:44 Dynamic Stretching vs. Static Stretching: Best Practices

39:29 Maximizing Post-Workout Recovery: Stretching Do's and Don'ts

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Transcript

Angie: 0:00

This is the Real Life Runners Podcast, episode number 358. Stop these three stretching mistakes. What's up runners. Welcome to the podcast today. We are talking about stretching. So, so many times in my career as a physical therapist, when I work with runners oftentimes, or even when I just talk to other runners, so many runners blame pain and injuries on lack of stretching or lack of flexibility. And they think they need to stretch more, but do you really? Today we're going to be breaking down the three top stretching mistakes that I often see to help you understand what to do instead to decrease your risk of injury, stop wasting time, and finally release that feeling of tightness in your body. So if that sounds interesting, stay tuned! What's up, Runners? Welcome to the show. We are so excited that you are all here with us today. Happy May! Happy May! Should I do the in sync thing? Yes, you have to. You have

Kevin: 1:22

to.

Angie: 1:22

But it's, it's already May.

Kevin: 1:24

It's gonna be fine.

Angie: 1:24

It's not gonna be May anymore. It is May. I

Kevin: 1:27

mean, there's gonna be another May in the future.

Angie: 1:29

I guess I should have done it on our, like, podcast last week. But last week, uh, if you guys haven't listened to last week's episode, I highly suggest going back and listening to episode number 357. I had a great conversation with Megan Blacksmith and we talked all about NLP, which is, which stands for Neuro Linguistic Programming. It was an awesome conversation about how hidden, Subconscious beliefs often hold us back in our running and in the rest of our lives. It was a fascinating conversation.

Kevin: 1:56

Yeah. I just started that episode. It's an excellent one. Like there's going to be some, some good takeaways for me on that one. I love when you interview people and they're not part of the process. Cause then I get to hear you interview really smart people. And it's great.

Angie: 2:08

I love the guests that we have on the podcast. So shout out to Megan. And if you guys haven't listened to that one, please go, go back and check it out. There's some really powerful stuff that we talk about in that episode. Today, we're kind of going from that mindsets, uh, stuff, which is really the underlying piece of everything that we do. And of course, we're going to be talking about mindset and thoughts and beliefs in today's episode as well. But today's going to be a little bit more physical therapy focus. I'm going to put on my physical therapy cap and we're talking about stretching mistakes. We're talking about the three top mistakes that we often see. When runners think that they need to stretch or they should be stretching more or they're not stretching at all Like there are three big things that we see when it comes to stretching in runners So are you someone that likes to stretch Kevin Brown?

Kevin: 2:56

So you got me distracted. I'm trying to picture a physical therapy cap Do you think it's made out of those like elastic bands that you can do like hip work with? Like I imagine that's what a physical therapy hats made from I mean

Angie: 3:07

my first thought was my graduation cap You You know, maybe like

Kevin: 3:11

KT tape all over the head. There

Angie: 3:13

you go. I like it. We're going to have to come up with something here.

Kevin: 3:16

Excellent. Um, do I like to stretch? No. No, I don't.

Angie: 3:20

No.

Kevin: 3:20

Um, I've never really liked to stretch, but after selling shoes in a variety of running stores, people would come to us as shoe salesmen and be like, Hey, what kind of stretching should I do?

Angie: 3:33

I know. And that drives me nuts too. I mean, there are, and don't get me wrong, there are a lot of very knowledgeable runners out there. However. A lot of the advice that you're going to get from people without a medical background is based on what

Kevin: 3:48

that individual person, maybe that individual person in like one other runner,

Angie: 3:55

or if they're a coach, it may be based on some experience with working with athletes. I mean, there, sometimes it's based on certain things and a lot of them do. Hopefully if you're working with a running coach, hopefully they have done education on stretching and. Read books and are reading, continuing education on this because a lot of the things that I see are based on You know, poor research if research at all. And a lot of times people just kind of do things because that's always what we've been doing. That's just always how we've done it. Yes. And so that's what we're gonna continue doing, even though it's not the most effective thing.

Kevin: 4:29

Yeah. Oh, I mean it at, at worst, it's continuing to do what you've always done without trying to decide whether it's worthwhile. And I'm at best, usually what you're looking for, depending on who you're talking to is probably anecdotal. And so that's not really solid research backed, whereas you actually have all sorts of research backing.

Angie: 4:47

Yeah. So do me a favor guys, and keep your mind open in this episode. Um, understand that a lot of what I'm talking about today is based in scientific research and on over a decade of coaching runners, um, really The two of us together combined have over 30 years of experience coaching runners. I've got lots of background here. Don't go into random Facebook groups and ask for advice on stretching and strength training. Go to people, even if it's not me, like go find good sources of information that have both science and experience, because that's the other thing that I see in a lot of the advice out there. There's, there's people out there that give good scientific advice, advice based in science, but they've never actually applied it in the real world. So it's hard for them to understand how that. Really works in real people.

Kevin: 5:40

Yeah, that's I mean, that's my issue from like a training plan perspective It leaves the world of stretching and flexibility behind but like this workout Theoretically should do this to the body this workout should theoretically do this to the body So if you do both these workouts, you'll be able to enhance these two things. It's like that's true If you do each of them individually in a lab setting, but how do they work together? And how does this all actually play out?

Angie: 6:05

Right? So let's start off the episode by just giving you a basic overview in what happens when we move. And specifically, I want to talk about the difference between flexibility and mobility. So I'm not sure if you've heard these terms before, I'm guessing everyone's probably heard the term flexibility before. I think that people are less familiar with the term mobility. So what's the difference? Flexibility is often what we think about when we think about stretching. So, flexibility is the ability of your muscles and tissues to lengthen. Okay? Mobility, on the other hand, is the way that your body moves. This includes both range of motion, And strength. So when our body moves, when our joints move, there are several different things that are happening. There is motion in the joint itself, where the joint is where two bones meet. And the bones are either rolling or gliding on one another. Okay, so that's one thing that's happening with the bones. The second thing that's happening is that our muscles are lengthening or contracting. So this is where muscle length plays a role, okay? The length of your muscle is going to determine how well you're able to move as well. And then part number three is that within each muscle, the muscle fibers are gliding along each other within that muscle and along surrounding muscles. And so this is where restrictions and fascia and like tissue adherence. That comes into play, okay? So there's multiple things all at play here and all of those things come into play when we talk about mobility because, well, um, when we talk about range of motion and there's also like the joint capsule itself. So there's a lot more things that go into mobility and the way that our body moves versus just muscle length itself, which is really what flexibility is talking about. So now that we understand the difference between flexibility and mobility, we want to talk about stretching itself. So when people say stretching, oftentimes they're referring to static stretching, but there's actually two different types of stretching. There is static stretching, where you Move into a position of tissue restriction. Cause remember flexibility is all about muscle length and tissue length. So we move until the point where we feel restricted and then we hold it for an extended period of time. That's what's known as static stretching. And I think that's what most people think about when it comes to stretching. Would you agree?

Kevin: 8:24

I mean, you say stretching and I just picture bend over and touch my toes or the classic sit and reach test that we all had in the presidential test,

Angie: 8:31

which is so silly. And then number two is dynamic stretching. Okay. So dynamic stretching is where you move into an area of tightness or restriction or kind of towards the end of that available range of motion or. the end of that available muscle or tissue length, and then you move out of it. And then you move into it and then you move out of it. So it's more of a dynamic movement. You're moving in and moving out. And when I think about dynamic stretching, that's more targeted towards mobility. So because when you're doing a dynamic stretch, it's including both the range of motion, you have to be able to move into that range and then also have the strength to move in and out of it. Does that make sense?

Kevin: 9:10

Okay. But when you're like coming up to the point where you're starting to feel like, so for me example, I can't bend over and touch my toes. Like that's just not happening. But I kind of get near where my hands are, I don't know, partway down my shin and then I could stand back up and then I'd reach a little bit farther and then stand back up. Is that? Okay. Okay. Doing anything for the length of my muscle or no. Okay.

Angie: 9:33

No, we're working on different things here So static stretching and dynamic stretching actually are working on different like they work through different mechanisms essentially

Kevin: 9:44

Is dynamic stretching the best term here or is it really like dynamic mobility work? Because to me, stretching goes to flexibility, right?

Angie: 9:52

And I would agree. I mean, I think that mobility work is when I think of mobility work, I think of dynamic stretching essentially. So there are different terms that we can basically use for the same thing, but I just want, that's kind of why I wanted to take this, um, to just, Define some things first so that we're all on the same page. So if you hear me talk about dynamic stretching, I'm also basically talking about mobility work. Excellent. The, I kind of use those two things pretty interchangeably. Okay.

Kevin: 10:17

So we're just putting that right here off the bat so that we can interchange these words. Great.

Angie: 10:21

Okay. So when people ask me often about stretching, how to stretch, when to stretch, what to stretch, It's not always the same for each person because like you were just saying we all know people that can't reach down and touch their toes like you and then there are people like me that I can put both palms on the floor without really trying like I am a very flexible person I don't have that kind of restriction and if you guys follow us on Instagram you can see kind of a fun expression. We'll see you guys soon. Example of the difference between Kevin and I and our hamstring flexibility. I posted a real about it a couple, maybe a week or two ago. Um, so you can kind of see how. Lack of flexibility or lack of mobility can sometimes be construed as weakness. And that's why some of this, you know, kind of can get cloudy when you're not really sure what you're talking about. So there are those people that can touch the floor without a problem. Then there's people like Kevin that can barely touch their shins or maybe like, you're, you're not that bad, but like some people can't even touch their knees, you know, like they're super heavy

Kevin: 11:22

shit.

Angie: 11:23

Yeah. So. Do you and I need to stretch the same?

Kevin: 11:27

No,

Angie: 11:28

right? I feel

Kevin: 11:28

like no.

Angie: 11:29

Yeah, we don't right? There's not like one size fits all or one type of recommendation when it comes to stretching for everyone Does that make sense?

Kevin: 11:39

Yeah, I mean, I'm with you But to that extent like is there you can bend over and put you both of your palms on the ground Do you need to work on the flexibility of your hamstring at all? Like I don't think that there's a benefit that seems like it would fall into the time waster

Angie: 11:52

Well, correct. And that's kind of my point here. So, uh, For this example, as long as you have enough flexibility, you don't really need to stretch your muscles that much because more is not always better. It really depends on your activities of daily living and what, or what activities you're trying to pursue for, Your performance for your, um, hobbies. Like for example, running does not require a ton of flexibility. You don't need a lot of muscle length to perform, let's say, marathon running. No, you

Kevin: 12:25

really don't, but

Angie: 12:26

you do need more muscle length and flexibility. If you're a sprinter, because your body is going through greater ranges of motion. In sprinting versus marathon running. Same thing with hurdling, for example, right? If you're going to be a hurdler, you better have some flexible hamstrings because you've got to kick your leg out. You got to have a lot of strength too, but you have to be able to lengthen your leg out so that you can clear the hurdle.

Kevin: 12:50

You got me laughing on this one. So world cross country championships have been, I don't know, maybe a month or so ago, something like that. And instead of using like an actual, like. Trail and having there be real life like rocks and trees and ruts and whatnot. They Really made this very human constructed thing It was a man made hill and then they had hay bales Like awkwardly placed around the course that you would have to like go up and over and so as you're watching some of the people some of them in the race We're like, well, that person has a steeplechase background because they would hurdle the hay bales because they had that range of motion and other people, you could see they weren't even going to attempt to do it. They were going to step on top of the hay bale and then they were going to land on the other side of it, or they were going to jump over it, but they did not look like a hurdler because they probably had nowhere near the appropriate hamstring flexibility to try to appropriately hurdle that you put a small hurdle in front of me. I'm going to two foot jump over it. Like I am not going to try to cleanly hurdle it.

Angie: 13:50

Yeah, and so that's kind of the point is based on your chosen activities and really Your daily life how much flexibility do you need and I think that we need to look at this I almost more based on our daily activities versus running because I think that we need a lot more flexibility just for our daily Activities that then we do with when it comes to running.

Kevin: 14:13

Yeah. No, I had a percent agree Yeah, especially long longer slower running does not need much. No much at all.

Angie: 14:19

Right. And so as long as you have enough flexibility, then you're good. If you don't have enough flexibility, then you end up compensating through other things, which can lead to breakdown and injury because you're using muscles when you shouldn't be using muscles, you're overusing certain muscles, you know, so it can just lead to problems if you don't have enough because the body is very smart. And if you don't have enough in one area, it tries to pull from other areas to try to compensate. Um, and that can lead a lot of people to.

Kevin: 14:49

It leads to fatigue way earlier than it shows because you're using muscles that you're not supposed to be probably for like stability that is, is just lacking in flexibility.

Angie: 14:57

Right. But we all need to focus on improving or at least maintaining our mobility, especially as we get older. And that's kind of what we just talked about, you know, getting up and down off the floor. Like this is an activity that I see a lot of patients when they get into the gym. 60s, 70s, 80s, they lose the ability because they don't do it very often because they think that they're tight or that they're stiff and so they just stop working on it when in reality that's something that you should probably start working on more if you're not able to do that.

Kevin: 15:27

I mean, to that level, literally getting up and down off of the floor would then be an exercise like, and it doesn't seem like that would be like a big workout, but if it's a struggle to get up and down off the floor, then that's technically a workout for you.

Angie: 15:40

Yeah. So it's very important for us to maintain mobility. And so let's talk then about how does stretching play a role in all of this? Okay. So again, When we talk about stretching, there are three main mistakes that we want to talk about in today's episode. So mistake number one is not stretching at all. And oftentimes, people that don't stretch at all, the big thing that I often hear is that I don't have enough time. I'd rather just go for a run, or I don't know what to do. And so, So if that's you or if you know people like this, oftentimes if you're not stretching at all, you're not doing any sort of stretching or mobility work. Um, and for, for the all intents and purposes, when I'm talking, um, throughout this episode, if I say stretching, I'm also including mobility work in that. Okay, because I'm talking about dynamic stretching as well as static stretching. So if they're not doing any sort of stretching whatsoever, That it often results in tightness and stiffness.

Kevin: 16:36

I mean, this is, if you start a run, I never was a big person on stretching. Even at high school, we would, we were supposed to get together and stretch at the beginning, which I think was entirely so that we would socialize with each other. All organized into a group coach could get out to practice. He could check and see who was there and who wasn't there. I don't think there was a big purpose to it. So there was never like a group organized stretch at the beginning, and then we would all just go take off and run. But we're a bunch of like 15 through 18 year olds. So it didn't really. Bother anybody that we didn't do a whole lot of stretching at the beginning. Now I'm not 15 anymore. And if I take off and just start running off of, off of nothing, off of sitting at a desk all day, that first mile, 10, 12, 15 minutes, it gets uncomfortable. And I feel just slightly awkward.

Angie: 17:27

Yeah. And I think that's, it's really because your body's made to move. And this is what I really want you guys to understand here that anybody that's not stretching or not doing any sort of mobility work. Your body is meant to move. And so it's really important that we do start incorporating this. And I would highly encourage you to start small. Okay. If you are someone that is not stretching at all, start small. Start with five to 10 minutes per day, because doing the right things can make a huge difference. Like you difference like you just mentioned doing some things before you run to kind of get your body warmed up to get your joints and your muscles and your tissues all moving can make a really big difference when it comes to Your risk of injury just how the run feels in general like I oftentimes will do some Pre run mobility to, you know, some hip swings and different things like that. And if you're debating if I should, you know, should I do before the run after the run? I would suggest starting with pre workout. I would suggest starting with doing some movements before your run to kind of get your body warmed up, get your joints, your muscles, your tissues warmed up, moving fluidly, especially if you run in the morning. And more ready to go. Um, and someone asked me this the other day, like Angie, what do you do? And so basically what I do is oftentimes, uh, well, pretty much before every run, I'll do like a handful of exercises. So I do hip swings, um, both forward and backward and side to side. side. And then I do some calf stretching because I tend to have very tight Achilles and calf. So I have to give my calves a little bit more love. Um, I definitely do the twisting runners lunge. That's my favorite stretch of all time. I do that pretty much before every run just to kind of warm up and just get my, my, especially my hips, um, feeling a little bit better. Um, and then the other thing I do is about a mile into the run, it's somewhere between a half a mile and a mile, depending on which run I'm doing. Um, I will stop and do a little bit more, you know, people are like, Oh, I, should I stop in the middle of my run? Yeah, it's totally fine to do that, you know, because for me, if I stop a half a mile to a mile into my run and do a little bit more mobility work, it makes the rest of my run go so much better.

Kevin: 19:45

Okay, so going to like the the old football coach saying when you're doing this kind of like Warm up at the beginning coach used to drop the line. It gets the juices flowing. Okay from like an actual Physical therapy perspective is doing something like hip swings and some mobility work Is that actually encouraging blood flow that like you literally are helping to bring? I don't know. You're lubricating the joints like you're moving the fluids in your body that the joints are in fact going to start gliding better.

Angie: 20:14

Yes. So both, both blood flow because you mentioned blood flow and joint fluid. Yes. And the answer is both because joint fluid, especially if you're someone that runs first thing in the morning, our bodies don't. do tend to stiffen up a little bit overnight because that fluid just kind of stays in one place. But again, our bodies were designed to move. So it's a good idea to get them moving so that you can start to move some of that fluid that's been stagnant around more and get to do its job better.

Kevin: 20:42

It didn't really go anywhere. Like it just moves to one side of the joint because you've been laying in one position.

Angie: 20:47

I guess so. Like I never really thought about the position of the fluid. Like I'm trying to just

Kevin: 20:50

envision this. Like you kind of like a joint capsule, so if you're laying on one side, all the fluid just kind of goes to one side. You let that joint move and you literally just move the fluid around and everything slides better.

Angie: 21:01

Yeah. I mean, lubrication is always a good thing when it comes to joints.

Kevin: 21:04

Excellent. Yeah.

Angie: 21:05

Because like what I said before, The bones that are meeting each other inside of a joint, they roll and they slide and they glide on each other. So if you've got a dry spot, which, I mean, it's never actually dry, like fully dry, right? But like, you want to make sure that that fluid is moving around in the joint for the joint to feel its best.

Kevin: 21:23

There's cartilage in there also, right? Yes. Okay. We're not really bone on bone yet? Okay.

Angie: 21:27

Well, I hope not. Hopefully not. You know, so yes, there, there's cartilage protecting that the surfaces that actually meet. So, but yeah, that's. Getting into a little bit more. So anyway, if you're not stretching, start stretching, start doing some dynamic mobility exercises, dynamic, right? Moving into a position, then moving out of a position, holding it for short periods of time. We're talking five to 10 seconds, right? This is not move into a position and hold. Okay. When we talk about static stretching, that's not beneficial for everyone. Unless you are lacking the proper amount of. Muscle length to perform a given function. Okay. So if we, do you think it's helpful for me to kind of go into any more details about static stretching at this point?

Kevin: 22:11

I mean, the proper amount of muscle length is it's really likely that you have it. If you're heading off on a normal run. Yeah,

Angie: 22:18

actually I'm going to speak, getting into the differences a little bit more in part three.

Kevin: 22:21

I thought you were. Yeah.

Angie: 22:22

Okay. So moving on to, do you have anything else you want to say about this mistake? Not stretching at all.

Kevin: 22:28

No, I want to highlight the you add in this little extra thing for calves beforehand I do not but I do a little extra you have

Angie: 22:35

super like Mobile calf muscles, right

Kevin: 22:38

but I do more around my hips than you do

Angie: 22:40

Right because your hips are tighter than my hips, but my ankles are tighter than your ankles And again, this is why it's important for you to do what's best for your body

Kevin: 22:49

Yes, which is goes back to your question that you pointed out earlier is how do I stretch? Well, there's not a quick answer to that. Yeah

Angie: 22:55

You Because it depends on you, your body, your restrictions and all of those things as well.

Kevin: 22:59

So again, when in doubt, marry a physical therapist.

Angie: 23:02

Or know your body, right? Like start to learn how to connect with your body. Don't be disconnected. Like feel what feels tight and then move into that restriction. Don't cause pain in yourself, but move into that restriction. Hold it for a few seconds and then move out of it and keep doing that. Because when you do dynamic mobility, dynamic stretching You are going to start to be able to move better.

Kevin: 23:28

It also gives you a good routine to do. Like if you're waiting on the starting line for the run to finally start and you're like in a corral for a while, you can keep doing some of these movements that it gives you something to do.

Angie: 23:41

There you go. Well, boredom. Thank goodness. It's a cure for boredom.

Kevin: 23:44

No, like it's a cure for nervousness because otherwise you just get nervous and you're like, no, no, no. I'll just go back to this routine that I have.

Angie: 23:51

Yeah. All right. Mistake number two. Stretching too much. Okay. So mistake number one, not stretching at all. And mistake number two, stretching too much. And I've never

Kevin: 23:59

done this one.

Angie: 24:00

These are the people that are basically stretching all the time. And oftentimes it comes from thinking that they're not flexible or thinking that They constantly have this sensation of tightness, and they think that stretching is going to help relieve that sensation of tightness.

Kevin: 24:15

Yeah, no, I've heard that one, but you watch them stretch and you're like, Okay, I don't think it's tightness because you're bending and flexing all over the place.

Angie: 24:23

Right, so if they are, if you're someone that stretches too much, Often this can lead to increased injuries and a lot of frustration because you're feeling the sensation of tightness and you're like, I don't get it. I'm stretching, but it still feels tight. And that's because weakness often masks as tightness. So, When we are weak in certain muscles or if we have postural or biomechanical issues that can lead to the sensation of tightness. So here is an example. So I was actually working with my sister who presented with a shoulder issue and she was having a ton of pain in her neck and her shoulder. And so she's like, Angie, what stretches do I need to do? And I'm like, I need you to stop stretching because that was really her go to. She kept trying to stretch, stretch, stretch, because she felt. tight and she felt pain. And so in her mind, I have to stretch this out because it must be that this tissue is shortened. And if I stretch it out and create more space, then it's going to all be better. But really what she was doing is she was overdoing it with the stretching. Because when you stretch what you're actually doing, if you do a static stretch, and if you kind of pull and hold what you're doing is creating micro tears in the muscle, which is also creating more inflammation. And so. By overstretching and by stretching all the time, you're constantly creating these little micro tears in the muscle and that's going to lead to more inflammation, more pain and an increased risk of like a bit bigger injury here.

Kevin: 25:55

Are you less likely to get these little micro tears with the like lean into it and then pull back out of it because you never really like. get into the stretch enough that you're actually creating the tears?

Angie: 26:06

Right. Exactly. So that's why dynamic mobility is a much safer option, especially when you're doing it in a controlled way. If you're doing like ballistic dynamic mobility, that can definitely increase your risk of injury. I don't

Kevin: 26:17

know what that means.

Angie: 26:18

Well, ballistic stretching. So this that's another term that people have used in the past. It's like that bouncing, you know, okay, like when you're like bouncing in and out of a stretch, it's like more violent looking stuff

Kevin: 26:29

doing right?

Angie: 26:30

Like, so what we're doing when I again, when I talk about Dynamic mobility. It is a slow controlled movement into an area of restriction and then out of an area restriction. It's not like bouncing in and out of that area. Does that make sense? I've

Kevin: 26:44

got one. Okay. Michael Phelps, before he used to jump in the pool would do those ridiculous arm swings in front and behind himself. That was like the

Angie: 26:52

last thing that he did though, right? Like think about what kind of warmup routine he went through before that.

Kevin: 26:58

It's probably like an hour long routine and then, but he would stay on the line, Is, would that be an example of ballistic dynamic? Like when he's like

Angie: 27:07

stretching his arms, like out to the side and then across his, yes, his chest. Right. I love that stretch. I do it before all of my workouts,

Kevin: 27:14

but the speed with which he did it.

Angie: 27:17

Well, that's the, that's the difference, right? So, because if you, Throw your arms back too far and they're not warmed up yet. Then yeah, you could create a tear in your muscle. But again, that was him right before he was about to race. So he was already well warmed up before that. He's not trying to, and he, when he, when he's doing that stretch, It's not like he's trying to increase his range of motion, right? Like he's just kind of like, that's just, that was part of his routine at that point in time.

Kevin: 27:44

It's probably part of his routine from, for years. And I have to assume that part of it was just intimidation of all the other swimmers around him to be like, look, I have a 12 foot wingspan. I swear that had to be part of it. I

Angie: 27:56

mean, his wingspan was insane. So anyway, back to, Stretching all the time. So if you have weakness or these postural abnormalities or biomechanical issues, what's happening is that your muscles are trying to pull you back into alignment. So back to my, the example of my sister, her shoulder blade because of various things, but essentially what was happening is her shoulder blade was sitting too high up on her rib cage. So your, your shoulder blades basically. Sit on the back of your ribcage and hers was just elevated and kind of off to the side because of tightness and other issues That she was having in her shoulder in her pecs in her chest like the body works together. Nothing's isolated here, right? So because this shoulder blade issue because of this postural Malalignment her neck muscles were overworking to try to kind of pull those shoulder blades back into place because your body wants to be in In alignment. Your body wants to be in a state of rest. And if it's not, if it's, if something's out of place, the muscles are trying to work to get you back into place. And so that's what often can lead to that sensation of tightness because it's some sort of abnormality that your body's trying to correct or There's some sort of weakness there that your body then because that muscles weak the body tries to tighten up on that area To try to compensate for that weakness as well.

Kevin: 29:20

Yeah, I mean that makes that makes perfect sense so The neck was actually doing its appropriate job in trying to then realign the shoulder blade to where it was supposed to. It's just that it's not supposed to be doing that 24 sevens because the shoulder blade should just actually be sitting lower. Hers was constantly doing a thing that it just shouldn't really be doing when at rest.

Angie: 29:41

Right. And so that muscle was never able to relax. And then it got into this constant state of. contraction and couldn't release. So by working on your biomechanical issue issues, your posture, your mobility, like helping to improve the mobility in her shoulder, in her shoulder blade, in her rib cage, we can kind of help realign things so that she, her muscles could essentially go back to rest and just allow. Her to be in a resting position.

Kevin: 30:09

Yes, because that was the issue is something was always tensed.

Angie: 30:11

Right. So this is why it's really important for us to work on range of motion and strength. Okay, because running is a full body activity. So if we're stretching all the time, oftentimes I don't see people. Doing as much strength work and we need to do both. We need to be doing dynamic stretching slash mobility work and we also need to be doing strengthening exercises so that we can help to improve on the weak areas of the body and keep the body in better alignment.

Kevin: 30:39

Oh, I mean, this kind of. I feel connected to this one post surgery. I wasn't supposed to be doing strength exercises, specifically core exercises were like off limits. So then when I tried to start running again, everything just felt really, really tight. Essentially my entire core just felt really, really tight and it doesn't make any sense. It's not like I'd been doing core exercises, but my core felt incredibly tight anytime I tried to start running. I'm like, Oh, well maybe if I do some, Upward dog. No. No, it was just read the sensation of everything trying to squeeze tight because all of those muscles were ridiculously weakened

Angie: 31:17

Right because you had surgery so you that's where your surgical incisions were was in your abdominal region So they cut through your body, they cut through those muscles, which is obviously going to weaken them. And then you weren't allowed to do abdominal exercises for five weeks straight. So that is going to also weaken those muscles. And so, yes, when you go out to run, we obviously need a lot of stability from our abdominal muscles to help keep us upright and for breathing and all sorts of things. So it makes a lot of sense that it just felt tight because what was really happening is those muscles were. Trying to contract to kind of hold everything in and do their job, but they They were weak.

Kevin: 31:56

Yeah. And poor low muscles. They were really, they were weakened and, but all I wanted to do was just stretch my abs and it didn't feel comfortable to do that. Mm-Hmm. And it was not gonna serve any benefit.

Angie: 32:08

Right. And that's the interesting thing is we often get this sensation of, I need to stretch because we, it's tight. That means I need to stretch. And that is not where we want to look right away. I think that when we feel that sensation of, of tightness or that area of tightness in our body, it's first. Okay. Is anything. Aligned incorrectly, right? What? How do I get myself back into better alignment? Um, and then we need to look at what muscles do I need to strengthen to help get back into better alignment and then maintain that good alignment? And then what mobility work do I need to also? So if, if there is a restriction for me getting back into a normal alignment, how can I start to work on that restriction through my mobility work?

Kevin: 32:48

All right, so this idea of I feel tight all the time, so I constantly feel like I should be stretching. If you're out of alignment, you really are going to need to actually meet with a physical therapist.

Angie: 32:57

I think that's the best way. I mean, I do have, you know, if you're an academy member, there are a lot of self assessment tests inside the academy. So if you haven't done those in a while, I suggest logging back into your member area and start to go through some of those, because you'll start to find those areas and then email me or show up on one of our live weekly coaching calls and I can help guide you into, okay, these are some exercises that you should focus on based on your individual needs here. And if you don't, If you're not a member of the academy or if you don't have access to someone that can help you with that, um, yeah, definitely going to see a physical therapist or a movement professional would be a very helpful,

Kevin: 33:35

right? Cause the first one you can kind of like tune into your body. This one you can tune into your body, but you might not know what to do next. Yeah. A professional is the way to go. Yeah,

Angie: 33:43

absolutely.

Kevin: 33:44

What do we got on number three?

Angie: 33:45

All right, so mistake number three is stretching the wrong way. And so we've kind of been talking about this throughout. So just as a little recap, not stretching at all. Mistake number one. Mistake number two is stretching all the time. And number three is stretching, but stretching the wrong way. And this often is going back to doing static stretches only, where you're moving into a position and holding it for an extended period of time. Um, usually 30 seconds. to 60 seconds is what most people do. That's how, how long a lot of people hold their stretches or think that they should hold the stretches. And this leads to an increased risk of injury because you're creating micro tears. Actually, I shouldn't even say that because holding a stretch for 30 to 60 seconds actually doesn't create those micro tears. Um, they actually did a very interesting research study that showed that in order to increase your muscle length, if you actually are trying to stretch the way to statically stretch in. To increase muscle length, which is the reason that you should be static stretching and really the only reason you should be static stretching, unless you just really love static stretching, then by all means stretch away, right? But to actually increase in the length of the muscle, you need to move into an area where you feel tight and you have to hold that stretch for. Two to five minutes, five to six days per week for 12 weeks. That's the, the protocol. If you're actually trying to increase muscle length,

Kevin: 35:11

I love when you say that study, it's such a good one because it's like, Oh, well, that's not what I've been. No one does

Angie: 35:18

that, right? Because it's, and it's also, it's a really big range, two to five minutes. That's like someone to hold that stretch. That would be like a, a yin yoga type of thing. I, I, you know, like if you're doing yin yoga where you're, you are holding a stretch around that amount of time, then you can actually cause an increase in your muscle length and an increase in flexibility. Just

Kevin: 35:38

who designed that study is my question. Like, did they have people holding for various amounts of time and they realized that it was really, that's why they got a whole range. Once you hit the two minutes, you were getting essentially the same benefits as five. That's my guess. I'd have to go back and look

Angie: 35:53

at all the details, but that was basically the, the, um, conclusion that they had come to. All

Kevin: 35:58

right. I have another question on stretching the wrong way because you said maybe you love static. Maybe you just love static stretching. Go at it. Is there a possible negative of over lengthening the muscle?

Angie: 36:12

Yes, because when you over lengthen a muscle, that muscle does become weaker. So if you are someone that loves stretching for some reason, just doing that alone without the accompanying strength work, that's the problem,

Kevin: 36:28

right? Because

Angie: 36:29

you are creating the micro tears if you are holding it long enough. If you are actually, but there's also people that are just super flexible, right? And, and for those people, like we had a girl on our team a few years ago who was so flexible, both her joints and her muscles, because she was a dancer her whole life. And this kind of goes back to, Make sure that you have enough range of motion and flexibility for the activity that matters to you. And I forgot, I did have this example that I wanted to give out earlier in the episode, but I, we got sidetracked by something. So, you know, as a runner, as a marathon runner, you need little, very little range of motion as compared to a lot of other activities. If you're a competitive gymnast. Being flexible and mobile is extremely important, right? So I would argue that, you know, competitive gymnasts are hypermobile in a lot of ways, which can cause a lot of issues, especially when they're that hypermobile as young girls. And then growing up, there's a lot of problems that can come from that. Um, But again, train for the activity that you're participating in. That's the most important thing.

Kevin: 37:36

Okay. So the takeaway from a running perspective is if you like the feeling of all that static stretching, you still just have to make sure that you are compensating with enough strength work so that you're not weakening the muscle.

Angie: 37:48

Right. Okay. So you don't want to focus just on static stretching. I hope. If there's one thing that you, you're going to take away from this episode, it's that you need to be doing dynamic stretching or mobility work, which I basically refer to as the same thing, um, because if you're doing static stretching only, you're just going to waste a lot of time and you're not going to get much benefit. Like there's just not research to back it up. There's also not a lot of anecdotal evidence that it's going to help that much other than people saying that they like the way that it feels. So here are some like do's and don'ts when it comes to stretching so that you can avoid stretching the wrong way. So The first thing is don't do static stretching before a run or a workout. It has been shown in research to have negative implications on performance. That you do want to, however, do dynamic stretching before a runner workout or some dynamic mobility work again, where you're moving into. an area where you start to feel a little bit of tightness and then moving out of it. Move into it and then move out of it. And you're not trying to like stretch as far as you can go. That's the key here too with dynamic stretching. Is that you're starting, you move into an area where you start to feel that tightness, you start to feel that restriction. It's not like, I'm just going to keep pushing until I can't go any further. Does that make sense?

Kevin: 39:01

Yeah, no, you're, you're not finding the limits here. Like you're trying to feel where it starts to feel a little uncomfortable. Hang out there for a couple of seconds and then you get to pull out. This is so much nicer than trying to go into like that, that static stretching. I like to go to the super uncomfortable place and then hang out there for a minute. That's awful.

Angie: 39:19

Yeah, not, I mean, it's not comfortable for anybody, even if you're someone that loves stretching. Okay, so, no to static stretching before a workout, yes to dynamic stretching before a workout. Okay, the next part is after a workout. After a workout, you can really choose dynamic or static depending on who you are, what the goal is, and, you know, what exactly you're trying to accomplish, which is what the goal is. So, I just repeated myself, but, um, I don't know. Dynamic stretching after a runner workout is great. You're kind of like, it's a great way to cool the body down. Remove through your available range of motion because endurance running, you don't move through your full range of motion. So it's really nice at the end of the rink so that you can kind of get stiff right during the run, especially like during your longer

Kevin: 40:07

run,

Angie: 40:07

right? Because your body is only moving through a very small area. small range of motion. So at the end of the run, moving into that full range of motion in your hips and your knees and your ankles is actually a really great thing again, to get that joint fluid moving, to kind of like wake the body up and say, Hey, don't worry, we've got. All of this range of motion still available.

Kevin: 40:26

I mean, the amount of times I finished long, long runs and just really felt tight and stiff, you had me do this on the first ultra that I tried to do. There was one point that I, I hit a breaking point and you were like, why don't you try and do some fire hydrant? And it seemed like an odd choice of exercises to do, but it was a range of motion that I was not doing as I shuffled down the side of the road.

Angie: 40:47

Right. Cause you weren't working your lateral.

Kevin: 40:50

Exactly. Um,

Angie: 40:51

muscles at all. Um, well, I mean, not other than stabilization. So Yes, you can definitely do dynamic after a, a run or a workout. You can also do static. So if you are someone that wants to do static stretching, if you do feel like you need to increase your flexibility, this is the time to do static stretching. Your muscles are already warmed up, the blood is flowing, your tissues are warmed up. This is when static stretching is going to be the most effective. And again, remember. If you are going to be doing static stretching, you're going to want to hold it for at least two minutes in each position to actually get the benefit that you're going for.

Kevin: 41:26

Yes. Two minutes, five to six times a week for ever.

Angie: 41:29

12 weeks. Right. Um, the other thing that people often ask about is running drills. Okay. Running drills are a form of dynamic mobility or dynamic stretching. So you can do those either before or after a run, depending on what the goal is. So if you want to use running drills as a way to warm up the body and kind of activate those muscles and get the body ready, you know, high knees, butt kicks, slow marches, karaoke. These are all great running drills that you can use before a run and also after a run for kind of, you know, similar. Um, to gain similar benefits, you're just kind of like, are you trying to do them beforehand to kind of get your body warmed up? Or are you going to use them as part of your cool down to kind of reestablish that mobility?

Kevin: 42:14

Yeah. Some of your more, and this I think is where you're getting some of this, the bouncing stuff because it's, it looks like low level plyometrics on some of these drills. I like to put them if I'm going to have like a particularly hard workout, I'll do a little bit of like my, my easy routine, go for a, a warmup for, you know, a mile, a couple of miles. And then I'll put in some drills before I flip over to the harder workout because I just feel like It allows me to really feel comfortable with full range of motion. When you're moving faster, you're going to have greater range of motion than when you're going on like an easy run. And it's not like I need great range of motion to hold like half marathon pace, even 5k pace, it's certainly not a sprint range of motion needed, but I like feeling like I can move through my full range so that when I have to move through part of it, I don't feel like I'm at all being restricted.

Angie: 43:03

Exactly. And that's a really good point. Because when you. do kind of wake up your full range of motion. It does make the partial range of motion feel better because you're not bumping up against a restriction.

Kevin: 43:14

Yeah.

Angie: 43:14

Yeah. All right. So those are the three mistakes, not stretching at all. Not or over stretching stretching too much and then stretching the wrong way if you guys have questions reach out You can find me on instagram at real life runners. I can answer your stretching questions there It's I'm not gonna be able to give out individual advice if you're not a client because there's a lot of background that I usually Get I don't give out medical advice at all ever FYI. So all of this is for educational purposes only so But yeah, basically the takeaway from this episode is do dynamic mobility work. It's going to benefit you not only in your running, but in the rest of your life. If you're someone that doesn't like stretching, you don't have to do static stretching unless you have a really, you know, a limitation in your muscles that are, that are not allowing you to perform full range of motion in. Your chosen activity,

Kevin: 44:04

right? And a professional probably would have helped you identify that also.

Angie: 44:07

Absolutely. All right, you guys, thanks for joining us. If you found this episode helpful, please share it with a friend or leave us a review on Apple podcasts so that we can help more runners understand how to run longer, avoid injury, and feel way better in the process. This has been the real life runners podcast episode number 358. Now get out there and run your life.